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BEWARE of the brand Napure!! Dun get cheated!!

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Wind In My Hair
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Postby Wind In My Hair » Fri, 02 Jan 2009 11:58 am

durain wrote:i think if the OP wants to make people aware of a company or product that is a scam/cheat, then more info and details are needed. you cant just slag of a company without giving the reasons. just like you cant slag off investing in mini bonds just because some mini bonds were linked to lehman brothers.

But surely it would be fair to slag off Lehman Brothers? That's exactly what the OP is doing - he is not saying don't buy any products from China... just check carefully before buying from this company that seems to have claimed that products were made in Germany. Besides, Mini Bonds was the specific name used to market Lehman's investment product and not a general class of investment like equities or bonds (a Mini Bond is not a bond at all, by the way) so in fact it would be quite fair to slag off Mini Bonds because all Mini Bonds would be linked to Lehman Brothers. I really don't get your logic.

None of us knows the details of the case, so if the OP is willing to fight the case then it's best to let a suitable authority decide. It is quite acceptable to charge a person or company for misrepresentation (as has been done in the case of the Mini Bonds). And if there was no misrepresentation and the OP simply assumed too much, then he will have to accept the court's judgment.

This seems to have been blown out of proportion. All the OP wants is a refund or exchange and is asking how to go about this. I've heard that companies here have to accept exchanges within 7 days of purchase if the receipt is produced and the goods unspoilt, though I'm not sure if this is legally binding and I have no idea who is supposed to enforce this if it is.

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Postby ksl » Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:44 am

WIMH:I've heard that companies here have to accept exchanges within 7 days of purchase if the receipt is produced and the goods unspoilt, though I'm not sure if this is legally binding and I have no idea who is supposed to enforce this if it is.


Quite so, I sympathise with locals, that quite often get ignored or treated badly, and I have had a few encounters myself, one was the largest travel agents here, who tried to deduct 300$ per person from and emergency cancellation. Come on, if that isn't taking the piss i don't know what is.

They have no policy for emergencies in their contract, unfortunately money had to be paid at the time of the contract, and it wasn't, so then they had me to deal with and it wasn't a very pleasant encounter, I didn't mind at all about losing face in front of others, it's all about ethics and i was prepared to pay an administration fee, I didn't pussy foot around with anyone but the manager, and i dealt the cards....he was adamant i was to pay the 300$ per person cancellation fee until, I threatened an advertising campaign on the internet, which would have lost them quite a considerable sum. We finally agreed to agree, i was right and a more reasonable charge would be paid, that other travel agents charge like 50$ per person.

I Believe more people should really adopt the attitude, to fight for what is reasonable, and if one cannot agree, then it should go to arbitration CASE or the small claims court. Only a fool and his money are soon parted!

The more support CASE gets, from Companies and other businesses, the quicker the act gets cleaned up.

There are quite a few undesirable that cheat in the retail business, and i have been caught out, also by a furniture dealer selling furniture full of woodworm, and he knew it, he did a runner, but I also caught up with him too.
Singapore you have to be very careful, personally i find it difficult to trust people here, it's a little like the family soaps on TV. :lol: They have a birth right to your money. :roll: No questions asked.

sqfanatic You probably should go and chat with CASE! to see if you meet their criteria

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Postby Petales Soufflez! » Sat, 03 Jan 2009 4:04 am

Actually, before I lived in the USA, I didn't even know that shops actually will accept returns sometimes without questions.

Singapore (at least when I was still living there) is very bad for this. As far as I can remember, sales have always been final. Unless the product is faulty, of course, but you just couldn't normally change your mind about something, for example.

Here in Europe, most companies are not too liberal about refunds, but they do allow it under certain conditions and usually within a certain period after the purchase. And if they don't give you cash back they'll at least give you a voucher.

I think that we can certainly improve our customer service in Singapore. Waayy to go.
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Wind In My Hair
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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sat, 03 Jan 2009 9:38 am

ksl wrote:I Believe more people should really adopt the attitude, to fight for what is reasonable, and if one cannot agree, then it should go to arbitration CASE or the small claims court. Only a fool and his money are soon parted!

The more support CASE gets, from Companies and other businesses, the quicker the act gets cleaned up.

sqfanatic You probably should go and chat with CASE! to see if you meet their criteria

Fully agreed. There are too many rogue sellers here who get away with what is effectively cheating. If more people stood up for what is right, things would get better quickly.

Petales Soufflez! wrote:Singapore (at least when I was still living there) is very bad for this. As far as I can remember, sales have always been final. Unless the product is faulty, of course, but you just couldn't normally change your mind about something, for example.

I think that we can certainly improve our customer service in Singapore. Waayy to go.

Yep, way to go. With some types of products like insurance, there is a legally required 7-day cooling off period where you can change your mind, no questions asked. Hopefully that will soon be extended to other big ticket items and eventually to all purchases.

Most stores (except small family-run businesses) usually offer exchanges within 7 days if a receipt is produced, even if the product is not faulty, as long as it is in good condition. I usually ask upon purchase, explaining that I'm buying it as a gift so if my friend doesn't like it, would they accept an exchange? I have always received a yes. Sometimes you just have to ask.

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Postby sqfanatic » Sun, 04 Jan 2009 2:42 am

A big THANK YOU to everyone for your kind advice and discussion about this topic.

Wind In My Hair,

Thanks for understanding and empathising my situation. I did went to CASE before and was told that I would be better off going directly to Small Claims as ours is of a complicating issue.

Yes, my request is simple, to either get a refund (which i know is totally impossible) or an exchange to another brand Simmons. The company is claiming that they only sells Napure mattresses and that they have no link or whatsoever with the other company which sells Simmons as well. But the fact is, this other company, who had so gladly swiped our credit card for the purchase, has been registered under the same business address as the company that's selling only Napure. And, on top of that, they have the same secretary, and their shareholders are so conveniently and coincidentally living just across the block from one another!! How to believe that they have no links at all?

Is it even possible to register under a same business address as another company? And in which circumstances could this be possible?

So after the first consultation at Small Claims with their representative, he's willing to help us do an exchange to Simmons for our king size mattress only, so he told us to go get the model no. that we want. We thought it was a glimmer of hope, but we were utterly disappointed once again. He said that we are only limited to exchange to 2 models, which are priced at $1k+ and $2k+. We had paid close to $4k and they are now offering us a product at half the value!! And for the model no. that we want, priced at $4k+, he said that we would have to top up $1k+ for it, and there would be no warranty!! So we said fine, and we wanted to exchange the Napure single size mattress for the cheapest model so that we need not top up some more money. Guess what his reply is, he said that their single size mattresses cannot be exchanged as they are all on indent basis. They only have ready stocks for king and queen size mattresses. What absurd excuse is that?! Who would be in the right mind to keep ready stocks of more expensive and more space consuming products as opposed to their cheaper counterparts?

The problem does not solely lie on the fact that their products are from China. The issue I have with them is that they shouldn't purposely mislead consumers into thinking that their products are from Germany, when it's not. And to charge at this kind of price, it's like asking you to pay good $$$ for your Ferrari that is made in China!!

I too hope that Singapore can be as liberal as the states in their exchange and refund policy. Simply no questions asked and no limit on when/where it must be done, so long as you have the receipt, the tag intact, you can bring it to any branch for your request. We haven't even decided on the delivery date or made full payment and they are denying us of that option.

So now our main concern is how best to fight this case against them. How can we prove that the 2 companies are under one roof? And how can we prove that their products are not from Germany but from China, and that they had mislead us into thinking otherwise? Even though I do not have concrete proof and is purely based on hearsay, their reactions totally give them away and confirms my suspicions.

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Postby ksl » Sun, 04 Jan 2009 5:16 am

You can purchase Company details from ACRA

http://www.acra.gov.sg/Services/Purchas ... formation/

However it is wise of any Company to cut their costs, if operating in the same industry, with different brands. And not unusual to find them under the same roof, and yes, sharing the swipe card machine too, and not be related.

Although the information you require should be available, on the Company reports you can purchase price is 30$ I believe.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 04 Jan 2009 8:46 am

sqfanatic wrote:Is it even possible to register under a same business address as another company? And in which circumstances could this be possible?

Quite possible, even for many companies to be listed under the same address. The virtual office industry works on this basis where anyone can pay a nominal fee and be allowed to print a prestigious downtown address on the business card as the business address.

Another circumstance is when the legal owner of that address gives the nod and allows you to operate under his address, either actually or in name. Common practice here, I believe.

sqfanatic wrote:Guess what his reply is, he said that their single size mattresses cannot be exchanged as they are all on indent basis. They only have ready stocks for king and queen size mattresses. What absurd excuse is that?! Who would be in the right mind to keep ready stocks of more expensive and more space consuming products as opposed to their cheaper counterparts?

Sigh, another common practice here, or should I say malpractice in this case. You are right to fight all the way.

sqfanatic wrote:The problem does not solely lie on the fact that their products are from China. The issue I have with them is that they shouldn't purposely mislead consumers into thinking that their products are from Germany, when it's not.

Verbal contracts are recognised as legally binding in Singapore. If there was no written agreement but you had a negotation and purchased after being promised that products are made in Germany, this is acceptable evidence in courts here. Better still if you had a witness though even if it's your word against his, I suspect courts will lean towards believing the buyer.

If I were you I would write down, verbatim if possible, what actually was said by you and by the seller, and offer this to the Small Claims court.

sqfanatic wrote:We haven't even decided on the delivery date or made full payment and they are denying us of that option.

Another option is to insist on a credit note, valid for 6 months, rather than an immediate exchange. This gives you the time to indent the product you want, or wait until new stocks come in which gives you more choice.

Good luck!

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Postby sqfanatic » Thu, 08 Jan 2009 1:50 am

ksl wrote:You can purchase Company details from ACRA

http://www.acra.gov.sg/Services/Purchas ... formation/

However it is wise of any Company to cut their costs, if operating in the same industry, with different brands. And not unusual to find them under the same roof, and yes, sharing the swipe card machine too, and not be related.

Although the information you require should be available, on the Company reports you can purchase price is 30$ I believe.


Hmm.. So if they are under the same roof but not related, are they considered 2 companies under the eyes of the law, or considered 1 company and is obliged to honor exchanges?

Anyway I had, before I went to Small Claims, purchased the business profiles of the 2 companies. That's where I realised they are actually related. Thanx for the info anyway.

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Postby ksl » Thu, 08 Jan 2009 2:13 am

If the Companies are registered independently, under different names and are the same owner, it would be seen has a legal transaction under that company, and he wouldn't be obliged to exchange, with his other Company, his Companies are accountable.

Although if he swiped the credit card through the one company and gave you a mattress or bed from the other Company it sounds pretty dodgy, wheeling and dealing, it will all be on the receipt.

There are a number of reasons for setting up new companies at the same location, it is very common for the various reasons in business. But good luck!

Also the question of quality varies too, depending on many demographic factors like household income and such, one doesn't launch an identical product around the globe, because different ethnic Countries, have different wants and needs.

Even if it was manufactured in Germany, it may well have been made for Asia. based on incomes, and manufacturing qualities within the region, it probably is not up to European standards, and why should it be.

The idea is to be competitive in the market place, providing suitable products for the majority, in accordance with tropical or sub-tropical climate, So it most definitely wouldn't be made of the same materials, if the laws and quality standards are lower here. If you get my point.

That is why sometimes when i buy a japanese product, I want it made in Japan and not in China, because the Japanese demand better quality, the Chinese manufacturing unit can meet the quality standards of all Countries, which they do, but the standards are far from the same.

For example a Car made for Europe is not made for Asia, so on import, the car needs to be adjusted to meet the standards of the Country it's being imported or exported to.

Still customers must fight for their rights, especially in Asia.

Most consumers do not realise so, I thought i would just point it out for the benefit of everyone. In most cases the prices' are the same, that's another horror story. :cry:

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Postby queks » Sun, 11 Jan 2009 6:13 pm

hi sgfanatic, i assume that you bought your mattress from the shop at ifc, can share with me which model you bought and for how much?

And how do you find out that it is from china?

Cos i am interested in buying also, but happen to see your post. I did a google and it seems to show that it is made in malaysia.

Lastly, is there anything wrong with the mattress, cos i find the feel quite ok.


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