Singapore Expats Forum

Many expats are sacked and going home to a miserable X'mas..

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Bafana
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Postby Bafana » Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:07 pm

smayrhofer wrote:I don't think expats have much right to complain about Singaporeans viewing them as trash


Hit a nerve?

BTW my statement was:

"the acidic self denigrating attitude of those who would look at envy on expats with higher wages when they cannot demand the same themselves since they cannot deliver results for fear of loosing face and position if they put it on the line.

The real Singaporean (as with any culture) I adore are those who don't complain about how good others have it, who don't feel resentment at their own shortcomings and who go out, better themselves and achieve."

This applies to all races and all countries - It is is not Singaporean bashing as there are many Singaporeans I hold as dear friends and mentors who say much the same. In fact my observations have been coloured by their guidance over the years and we use it in business to advantage often as in war you just use your enemies greatest weakness.

Nice write up ksl and agree results matter.
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Well

Postby Allibert » Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:08 am

I preferred it back in the good old days when english was a language that made sense

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Postby nahsiep » Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:45 pm

Plavt wrote:
Bafana wrote:The term over-paid trash is how Singaporeans really view us.




:shock: I have often wondered what Singaporeans might be saying about expats in the privacy of their own homes.


Hi Plavt - At home, we call you guys ang mohs--simple as that--older folks seem to understand this lingo (^__^) regardless of race/culture. I dont know anyone in my immediate group or within 6-9degrees who think expats are overpaid white/multi-coloured trash.

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Postby Vaucluse » Wed, 31 Dec 2008 1:45 pm

Well, a Scottish friend here just went home . . . no money, no expenses re-imbursed and he just spent quite a bit to furnish his house a few months ago . . .
Half of the people in my company have been placed on forced leave . . . this thing is going to get much worse after Chinese New year . . .

Come April or May there will be something close to panic in the world. Not a good thing to look forward to.
......................................................

'nuff said Image

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Bafana
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Postby Bafana » Wed, 31 Dec 2008 6:24 pm

nahsiep wrote:
Plavt wrote:
Bafana wrote:The term over-paid trash is how Singaporeans really view us.




:shock: I have often wondered what Singaporeans might be saying about expats in the privacy of their own homes.


Hi Plavt - At home, we call you guys ang mohs--simple as that--older folks seem to understand this lingo (^__^) regardless of race/culture. I dont know anyone in my immediate group or within 6-9degrees who think expats are overpaid white/multi-coloured trash.


It was an over exaggeration to provoke reaction and was explained out in subsequent posts.

There are many that feel this way and could name some if not in fear of law suits (some of which in Government Service and the others in private Construction related industries).
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Overpaid trash

Postby POOLECJ » Sun, 04 Jan 2009 5:31 pm

Such an ignorant statement this is. Singapore's economy is largely based on international banking/business. My company (from US) has its regional headquarters here. Without the regional HQ here there would be easily 600+ Singaporeans looking for work elsewhere. Not to mention 600+ singaporeans we have paid well and have developed over the years. So would you rather the 60+ overpaid foreign trash as you call them go home and take the HQ elsewhere? Leaving 600+ Singaporeans to search for new jobs in a time like this.

How idiotic this statement is. Singapore is a lovely place no doubt and there are many nice Singaporeans. But statements such as this are groundless and ignorant.

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Re: Overpaid trash

Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 04 Jan 2009 6:22 pm

POOLECJ wrote:How idiotic this statement is. Singapore is a lovely place no doubt and there are many nice Singaporeans. But statements such as this are groundless and ignorant.

May I point out that it was an expat on this forum who made that statement? I have never heard any Singaporean friend or colleague use it. Do some people think expats are overpaid? Of course. Just as they think some fellow Singaporeans are overpaid. Most people consider themselves underpaid as long as someone else, perceived to be no better than they are, is earning more. Human nature.

I agree with you that statements like these are groundless and ignorant. Even if one expat did overhear the phrase being used by one or two bitter Singaporeans (and by the way, people don't tend to be bitter when they are treated nicely)... how does telling the whole expat community that this is how Singaporeans in general refer to expats behind their back help the integration of expats and locals in any way? On another thread a poster said that especially in these times we should "make love, not war." Obviously some people are determined to do the opposite. Or perhaps just not thinking before they speak.

In any case, do bear in mind that just because one Mr Bitter Local thinks one Mr Pompous Expat is overpaid trash does not mean he thinks all or even most expats are overpaid trash. It would be poor logic to conclude this.

POOLECJ wrote:Singapore's economy is largely based on international banking/business.

Financial services accounted for 12.25% of Singapore's GDP last year. Financial intermediation as an industry employed 112,400 making up 6% of total employment in June 2007. International banking would account for a fraction of this meaning less than 12% GDP and less than 6% employment. Of course international banking is important; just thought I'd give some perspective since some readers may interpret 'largely' to mean more than half of the economy.

POOLECJ wrote:My company (from US) has its regional headquarters here. Without the regional HQ here there would be easily 600+ Singaporeans looking for work elsewhere. Not to mention 600+ singaporeans we have paid well and have developed over the years. So would you rather the 60+ overpaid foreign trash as you call them go home and take the HQ elsewhere? Leaving 600+ Singaporeans to search for new jobs in a time like this.

Let me assure you that many Singaporeans, myself included, are glad of the presence of international businesses, and are glad that there are expats willing to work here. I am also glad that some expats are really nice people. :D
Last edited by Wind In My Hair on Sun, 04 Jan 2009 6:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Response

Postby POOLECJ » Sun, 04 Jan 2009 6:47 pm

Very nice response and your points are taken. I assumed it was a Singaporean who made these comments based on some attached threads, I assumed incorrectly, regardless their comments were empty. As far as international business I'm not referring to just banking. Several large mfg's/businesses have regional headquarters here. Thanks,

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 04 Jan 2009 7:54 pm

If you want a handle on how a lot of locals view us go to sgforum or sammyboy (not the pron part). Or for that matter the angry board. Will definitely put colour in your cheeks. WIMH is one of the nicer ones here. :wink:

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Postby ksl » Sun, 04 Jan 2009 8:02 pm

A credit to you WIMH, good post! The statistics of the GDP are an eye opener also for Singaporeans, I haven't checked them myself yet, but i do know, that in Raffles time here, the UK built trading partners, that still exist today.

International trade, i would believe to be the largest chunk of the GDP, and the established traders, that deal with London and the re export of goods to other parts of the world is i believe the bread and butter of the Island although i haven't done my homework yet.

Singapore is the hub of trade, which includes banking and the people of Singapore that do have a birth right.

It is only natural for emotions to be involved by Asians about foreign workers, that are ignorant, many Asians or should i say expats, are just as important in employment around the world, as expats here. The UK locals and passport holders suffer the same ignorance, in times of suffering.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 04 Jan 2009 9:27 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:If you want a handle on how a lot of locals view us go to sgforum or sammyboy (not the pron part). Or for that matter the angry board. Will definitely put colour in your cheeks. WIMH is one of the nicer ones here. :wink:

Yeah yeah. In the land of the blind... :P

Those forums seem to be anti-Singapore or anti-government rather than anti-expat. Maybe they're just anti-everything? I just finished reading the last Harry Potter book, and if I had to choose whether to hang out with the Dementors or the Order, I would choose good anytime.

I'll take off my halo now. O:)

ksl wrote:A credit to you WIMH, good post! The statistics of the GDP are an eye opener also for Singaporeans, I haven't checked them myself yet, but i do know, that in Raffles time here, the UK built trading partners, that still exist today.

International trade, i would believe to be the largest chunk of the GDP, and the established traders, that deal with London and the re export of goods to other parts of the world is i believe the bread and butter of the Island although i haven't done my homework yet.

Thanks KSL. Sometimes I just get into a numbers mood. Nothing like some hard facts to ground sweeping general perceptions.

External trade is not counted within GDP, I think, which makes sense since the 'D' in GDP stands for Domestic. Last year our external trade was more than 3 times our GDP, at S$846.6 billion (that's with nine zeros, for our American friends reading this) compared to S$243.2 billion.

In case anyone is wondering, it's really easy to check on the numbers. They're at the Statistics Singapore website which I think I'm not supposed to link to. Just google it.

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Postby ksl » Mon, 05 Jan 2009 1:57 am

External trade is not included in the GDP, however the manufacturing and production of goods for export and the massive import & export conducted through Singapore is probably it's main economic backbone, yet to show any drastic weakness but it will, Just like the last recession here. 42% of Singaporeans are in the service sector.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/sn.html

Singapore main source of income is through trade, domestic and exports. with exports down, drastically the knock on effect will show in a drop, in GDP which it has, so we are talking the net export which is included in the GDP.

I did have the actual facts of just how powerful the UK is relative to Singapore economy, through it's trade links, in terms of international trade, add those to the US, Germany, France and Dutch trade partners and you will have your largest slice of Singapore economy around 70% if I am not mistaken which covers all industries of infrastructure for the transport of goods.

As little has 30% of employees are in other industries not related to Trade.

Hence why Singapore is desperate to build on tourism, so that it will not be so vulnerable, to the export markets, especially high tech.

It will take time to build Singapore into a tourist area, but they are very determined, a little bird told me, they have even started on the development of terminal 4 and 5 Airports. However be forewarned that the recession hasn't really took hold in Singapore just yet, but it will and I suspect many will lose their jobs, Singaporeans too, unfortunately.

Creative have lost 50% of their work force, by selling off their Malaysian unit, around 2700 workers, they are trying to fend off the worse scenario by saying the sale had nothing to do, with the economy :roll:

It's better to be prepared for the worst scenario, those with hard cash may survive.

The word is that developers of property will see a drop of 20 to 30% of retail prices in 2009. So if you are buying, demand a 30% reduction at least now, many will be glad to sell, as they run to dump, what they have, those that ride the storm, may just rent out, the bull run made handsome profits for many well established developers, the small ones, will be doing bargains to get rid.

I must say, you are capable in many areas, with your skills :) , I hated international economy when I studied. I always felt a bigger conspiracy to hide the real problems from the people through statistics. :lol:

Singapore & Denmark are not unlike each other, in terms of export reliance, when the balance swings into the red, Denmark normally intensifies the export education, recruiting graduates and Master degree managers within Companies to get qualified has export consultants, this is very similar to what Enterpriseone does for the government in Singapore of which I qualified in Denmark back in 1989.

By inviting a push in intensive exports, qualified consultants are able to take Companies into other markets, with subsidies paid by the government from 30 to 50% and for market research and feasibility studies around 60 or 70% is paid normally.

For myself it is very important to keep ahead of what's happening in the world, otherwise, my qualifications would become pretty useless, so good research is vital. Sorry for the rant, but it's interesting for me to understand what is going on.


List of countries by current account balance as a percentage of GDP was 17% in 2006 and i would suspect around 20% in 2007 dropping for 2008

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... age_of_GDP

For quality of life, Singapore is well rated at number 11 against the UK 29 position and USA at 13, although the data is from 2005

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-Life_Index

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Postby resm » Mon, 05 Jan 2009 6:54 am

ksl wrote:Hence why Singapore is desperate to build on tourism, so that it will not be so vulnerable, to the export markets, especially high tech.

It will take time to build Singapore into a tourist area, but they are very determined, a little bird told me, they have even started on the development of terminal 4 and 5 Airports. However be forewarned that the recession hasn't really took hold in Singapore just yet, but it will and I suspect many will lose their jobs, Singaporeans too, unfortunately.


Singapore has been working for many years to become a tourist area with some successes until recently.
Just look at all the hotels/airport terminals they have been adding over the past years.

Having been working at terminal 3 for 8 month since the day of opening,
I can only wonder why or if they really go ahead with additional terminals.

I have never seen a terminal so under-used and empty most of the time in both their check-in facilities as well as the retail/F&B area.

Not only is terminal 3 under-used but it has diluted the business activities of terminal 1&2.

Already the over-all arrival of tourists has declined by almost 10% at the end of the year 2008.

It will be a very tough job in the current economic situation to improve on that.
PROUT....the only way out !

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Postby QRM » Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:09 am

When you build terminals you have a 10- 20 year outlook, If it was packed from day one then someone didn't do their homework properly.

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Postby ScoobyDoes » Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:04 am

ksl wrote:Hence why Singapore is desperate to build on tourism, so that it will not be so vulnerable, to the export markets, especially high tech.

It will take time to build Singapore into a tourist area, but they are very determined, a little bird told me, they have even started on the development of terminal 4 and 5 Airports. However be forewarned that the recession hasn't really took hold in Singapore just yet, but it will and I suspect many will lose their jobs, Singaporeans too, unfortunately.



Neither Trade nor Tourism are recession proof, so moving from one vunerable business source into another only delays the inevitable. In some ways Tourism is more "instant" in effect, both positive and negative, of any change in business/consumer confidence.

The problem with Singapore moving into Tourism is that Singapore is still so darned expensive in comparison to its neighbours.

Shopping is cheaper in Hong Kong, everything is cheaper in Thailand/Malaysia/Vietnam etc. so in times of recession the tourist looks to get the most bang-for-buck that i believe doesn't include Singapore.

I stopped in at the Metro Expo Sale at the weeknd on the way to the beach...... stuff on sale was still at the normal non-sale prices of the same goods in Hong Kong so if Singapore counts itself as a shopping hub for tourists in Asia, it had better make some changes.


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