Singapore Expats Forum

Many expats are sacked and going home to a miserable X'mas..

Discuss about the latest news & interesting topics, real life experience or other out of topic discussions with locals & expatriates in Singapore.

Equalizer
Member
Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat, 30 Apr 2005

Many expats are sacked and going home to a miserable X'mas..

Postby Equalizer » Thu, 18 Dec 2008 4:51 am

I think many of us know quite a few people in our 9 degrees of separation who are leaving or on garden leave. If we where to extrapolate that across the expat fraternity I think you would find those type of numbers leaving across all the major int'l schools.

Many expats are gutted. Many expat kids are being pulled out of school. I heard that 180 children are leaving from the American school, which seems a little high

Personally, I do not think 180 for the American, British, Australian schools etc is unthinkable.

Companies are getting rid of the over-paid trash before xmas. It sucks but companies have to survive and brace for next year's severe turmoil.

If you were in the know at these schools I think this is probably one of the closest barometers you could get to measuring the severity in the Sing expat market at present.I have heard a couple times that SAS has no waitlist in most grades.

If I had to throw a dart and guess on the number, then 500-1000 expats is quite possible. I am sure many posters will suggest a higher or lower number. I just look at my childrens class at school at in 25 at least 3-4 are leaving

International trade is collapsing.
The global economy is shutting down and the pace has been racked-up a notch with the latest blackmail attempt, this time from the US auto makers.

"When Hell freezes over". That would be my response to their thinly veiled demands.


Some news over mass employee layoffs from foreign multi-nationals in Dec 2008:-

Nomura - 100 in HK & SG
Rio Tinto - 14,000 world-wide
Sony - 16,000 world-wide
Goldman Sachs - 10% of workforce (pink slips handled out this week)
Yahoo - 1000 world-wide
Credit Suisse - 5,300 world-wide
AT&T - 15,000
Dow Chemical - 5,000 world-wide
Dupont - 6,500 world-wide
3M - 2,300 world-wide
Adobe - 600 world-wide
SKF - 2,500
BMC - 350
Jefferies Group - 300 (SG office closed)
Viacom - 850
etc...

There are lots more that goes unreported. Looks like USA unemployment figures for Dec might hit 500,000 again......



.

User avatar
Bafana
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1393
Joined: Sun, 11 Apr 2004
Location: Singapore

Postby Bafana » Thu, 18 Dec 2008 6:07 am

Totally agree with this post even though my leaving in the New Year is unrelated to the economic downturn. It is however related to Singaporean office/project politics and having had to eat from it for over 5.5yrs whilst the cost of living far outweighs the perceived benefits.

BTW most people being laid off can get more work here they will just have to take less pay since local employers will treat the crisis as an opportunity to squeeze wages (even when there is no need). Old skool management principles still rule OK in Singapore.
Be Like Water

Allibert
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed, 04 May 2005
Location: Singapore

Re: Many expats are sacked and going home to a miserable X'm

Postby Allibert » Thu, 18 Dec 2008 11:13 am

Equalizer wrote:I think many of us know quite a few people in our 9 degrees of separation who are leaving or on garden leave. If we where to extrapolate that across the expat fraternity I think you would find those type of numbers leaving across all the major int'l schools. .


If you extrapolate what? This doesn't make any sense. Yes, guess what
, Everybody is having a tough time of it at the moment. And we're all pulling through the best way we can


Equalizer wrote: Many expats are gutted. Many expat kids are being pulled out of school. I heard that 180 children are leaving from the American school, which seems a little high .


I'm sure many Singaporeans are suffering as well.

Equalizer wrote: Companies are getting rid of the over-paid trash before xmas. It sucks but companies have to survive and brace for next year's severe turmoil. .


Apart from making you sound just like one of them, if you're trying to make any kind of argument, this colourful phrase doesn't exactly help to support any point. I am sure companies are being forced to lay off not just "over-paid trash"

Equalizer wrote:If you were in the know at these schools I think this is probably one of the closest barometers you could get to measuring the severity in the Sing expat market at present.I have heard a couple times that SAS has no waitlist in most grades. .


Again this sentence makes no sense. "IF you were in the know"? What is this supposed to mean? And if you weren't "in the know"?

Equalizer wrote:If I had to throw a dart and guess on the number, then 500-1000 expats is quite possible. I am sure many posters will suggest a higher or lower number. I just look at my childrens class at school at in 25 at least 3-4 are leaving .


Again what are you trying to say? Sure, people are being retrenched. That's what happens in a recession.



Equalizer wrote:Some news over mass employee layoffs from foreign multi-nationals in Dec 2008:-

Nomura - 100 in HK & SG
Rio Tinto - 14,000 world-wide
Sony - 16,000 world-wide
Goldman Sachs - 10% of workforce (pink slips handled out this week)
Yahoo - 1000 world-wide
Credit Suisse - 5,300 world-wide
AT&T - 15,000
Dow Chemical - 5,000 world-wide
Dupont - 6,500 world-wide
3M - 2,300 world-wide
Adobe - 600 world-wide
SKF - 2,500
BMC - 350
Jefferies Group - 300 (SG office closed)
Viacom - 850
etc... .


This is also what happens in times of recession when countries build themselves up to be hubs for every kind of industry. But what exactly is your point???

Equalizer wrote:There are lots more that goes unreported. .


Pray tell us

After reading your whole essay, I'd give it very few maeks for cohesiveness and even less for having a point.

How about "there is a worldwide recession and countries everywhere are not being left unaffected by this, not even Singapore"

Yes it hurts to be in a recession. Yes, it affects most of us. Yes, we all hope things will improve soon but everyone who can watch TV, listen to the radio or, read a newspaper know this already.

So what was your point again?

Min_Ong
Member
Member
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat, 11 Oct 2008
Location: Upper Bukit Timah

Postby Min_Ong » Thu, 18 Dec 2008 11:55 am

Perhaps the term "over-paid trash" should be changed.
Does any expats view themselves as such??

Ohwell, overpaid, underpaid, everyone's getting sacked.

Whatever goes down will come up. (Even sagging has facelifts)
Have a blessed christmas. For those not on OT, enjoy the family time. :)

User avatar
Bafana
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1393
Joined: Sun, 11 Apr 2004
Location: Singapore

Postby Bafana » Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:02 am

The term over-paid trash is how Singaporeans really view us.

Let's face it they don't really like us and they don't really like each other. They just put up with each other and us cause they are told they have too. Perhaps the sacking of some expats will make the narrow minded ego invested arse covering minority of locals happy for a while whilst their own bosses use the same excuse to screw them even worse then they do now (which has probably lead to such feelings of inadequacy to use such a term).

BTW off shoring expat services is not the same as not needing. I will continue to work in in Singapore on Singapore projects in high positions with wages and benefits far better than what some Singaporean would get with the added bonus of not having to put up with the acidic self denigrating attitude of those who would look at envy on expats with higher wages when they cannot demand the same themselves since they cannot deliver results for fear of loosing face and position if they put it on the line.

The real Singaporean (as with any culture) I adore are those who don't complain about how good others have it, who don't feel resentment at their own shortcomings and who go out, better themselves and achieve.

There is simply no excuse why an expat can come into Singapore and earn more than a local in this day and age. It doesn't make any economic sense and the one thing Singaporeans are truly gifted at is business.

Singapore is a first world country with high standards of education and living - It is not an annexed third world nation ruled by expats (even if some brits still feel that way - hey, they still do about Australia and New Zealand for that matter).

And before you start on the expat companies only hirer expats and always apy them more than locals rubbish. Your wrong. I have worked in/with lcoally based companies where I am one of a few ang mo's amongst the crowd of locals.

Bring it on. I am sick and tired of this self pity. grow a backbone.

How can you take such happiness from others woes unless to feed your own unhappiness.
Be Like Water

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34785
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 19 Dec 2008 6:59 am

=D> WORD!

I couldn't agree more.

Oh, and like you, I've been working for local SME's for the past 12~14 years.

User avatar
Plavt
Director
Director
Posts: 4291
Joined: Wed, 18 May 2005
Location: United Kingdom

Postby Plavt » Fri, 19 Dec 2008 7:52 am

Bafana wrote:The term over-paid trash is how Singaporeans really view us.




:shock: I have often wondered what Singaporeans might be saying about expats in the privacy of their own homes.

smayrhofer
Regular
Regular
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue, 02 Dec 2008
Location: Singapore

Postby smayrhofer » Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:21 am

now, now... let's not generalize. I'm sure there are a lot of Singaporeans who don't view expats as well-paid white trash.

I don't think expats have much right to complain about Singaporeans viewing them as trash - I know more than a few expats who consider themselves 'above' Singaporeans, and view Singaporeans as trash. You just have to look at the anti-Singaporean sentiments raised in this forum.

Or those comments that Singaporeans don't deserve to earn as much because they aren't good enough.

User avatar
QRM
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1831
Joined: Mon, 17 Oct 2005
Location: Nassim hill

Postby QRM » Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:35 am

smayrhofer wrote:now, now... let's not generalize. I'm sure there are a lot of Singaporeans who don't view expats as well-paid white trash.



Are all overpaid expats white?

smayrhofer
Regular
Regular
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue, 02 Dec 2008
Location: Singapore

Postby smayrhofer » Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:40 am

haha - you know, when I wrote 'white trash', i was already thinking that I'd probably get comments on the fact that I chose such a color-specific term!

my apologies. change that to 'multi-coloured trash'.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34785
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:12 pm

Considering that 90% of all expats here are from Bangladesh, India, Thailand, PRC and Burma......... :-|

Course they're the underpaid expats........ whom all Singaporeans love to trash (according the the papers and Serangoon Gardens anyway). Obviously all expats are not created equal.

But yes, I would probably agree, while it was not a PC remark, it is still probably true when one thinks about the top 10% of Expat employees.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34785
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:26 pm

smayrhofer wrote:You just have to look at the anti-Singaporean sentiments raised in this forum.


I don't see that many "anti-Singaporean" sentiments raised on this forum at all. I see people taking issue with certain deficiencies in social awareness and things like courtesy and driving abilities, but I don't see anybody taking anti-Singaporean sentiments here. Matter of fact, those types of posts generally get deleted post-haste. The wanting of increased levels of social responsibilities are not being against Singaporeans at all, it's actually the opposite if you would really think about it. Is the Singaporean Government Anti-Singaporean? They keep saying the same things we do. By your definition, all non-Americans who diss the US are anti-American. (I know...... they are, they are! :P )

User avatar
Wind In My Hair
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2306
Joined: Tue, 19 Jul 2005

Postby Wind In My Hair » Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:55 pm

:-#

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34785
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 19 Dec 2008 1:52 pm

Yeeeeessss? You wanted to say something?

Had to find some way to wake you up this Friday afternoon. Anyway, I'm 'bout to doze off so needed something to pique my attention. :cool:

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Fri, 19 Dec 2008 1:52 pm

Well I can only say, that most Countries that have had a colonial mother, and system, will find themselves segregated for many years to come.

The British have their supposedly superior blood lines, not many Countries are so liberal to recognise full equality and i have seen the hate and jealousy of some lower working class people in my own Country, which tells me, the problems of this nature are world wide.

It's true to say, that those that are fortunate to earn higher incomes, have worked hard, and studied hard to achieve their targets.

There are no reasons why Singaporeans should be any different to other humans, I believe jealousy or envy can work in positive ways too.

There will always be those, that feel superior to others, in one way or another, and if it is documented family heritage, it may be enough to, trigger the ego, into blast mode.

My own experience is to humour these people, and take it light heartedly, many of them are raised by their parents and molded into the framework, again it's all about respect being earned and the ability to lead by example.

To actually drop so low, to callous back chat serves no positive purpose in life, so I have always found it better to remain quite and learn from others, although i am a very proud and respectful person, and would expect those superior adults, to recognise that fact.

My arrogance for example in the military was more about the tone of voice used towards me and lucky for me, I had held back many times and followed the code of the Military, and that is to say, no senior NCO may touch me, without my prior permission, So when the prodding finger strikes the shoulder, the natural reflex is to strike back, hence no promotion, although I stood my ground and followed the game, in one ear and out of the other.

It never ever interfered with my soldiering, I would never become a slave of my peers, unless the respect was mutual, I had a good time, but was well aware, that superiority of the British is a tradition, that they hope to hang on too and the lower working class trash is just that. My mate that i joined the military with, made it to Major but was never totally excepted by the other officers, because like they say, it's handed down in the blood line, yet over the years, he has also changed so much, that he segregates himself from his roots, like many of us do.

It's not that we are better, than the working class, it's more that we do not wish to turn the clock back, it would be a negative thing to do, and none productive, locals have the same opportunities, but it takes motivation and self confidence to change ones life.

Although I do see in the work place, that locals are not treated well by some employers, and again this is a fear of local social behaviour patterns, that if you give them an inch, they will take a mile in many cases, and will still hold resentment against a superior.

Although my experience is that some employers do not show respect through example, but just like to shout orders and insults and pay very low incomes, but one must be aware through experience, that working on the shop floor, will enlighten the middle management to a cliche or group lead by the leader, the instigator that others generally fear, workers that don't follow the leader maybe forced to leave or are cast out.
I find the social organisation in the work place quite educational, and having been just a worker on construction sites, factories and generally a slave, it wasn't long before I was aware of peer pressure, to resent those like the foreman, who had educated himself into that position.

The workers are more like wolves, scavengers, waiting to pounce on the weak and vulnerable, its a dog eat dog place of work, that breeds segregation, to move up, one must study and improve, the sooner that is excepted, the sooner one can look back and think how lucky one was, not to be held back, by peer pressure, although it does take funds and effort.

If one looks at graduates today, they never ever get the work experience of the shop floor worker, because they have studied and missed out on the experience and understanding of social attitudes in the work place, and the hierarchy which is unofficially formed by peer pressure. To be a leader is no easy task, and those that have the ability to lead, do it to their best ability, although their is a great deal of understanding and learning to do and i don't only mean academically.

Graduates will tend to expect promotion because of their study and not their work ability, I know people that take master degrees before even having a job, and expect the heavens to open, it doesn't work like that at all, in the real world, and I think the sooner one learns the survival techniques the better, it is a very competitive market place, but if one is productive, it will show, by that i mean earning more for the company than what you are taking out of the company in income.

The first people to be sacked are the borderline cases in a recession and not the cream of the force, and to be the cream, you have to show the spirit and bring in the goodies, no job is really safe, if the company is not managed in a finely tuned way, which is almost impossible to do continuosly

Generally it's the same the world over in my opinion. one needs to stand firm, give respect and expect respect in return, no matter what race or religion, very hard i know, because i used to stick up for some black guy's and others with British passports in the military, which also backfired on myself, although i didn't join up for a career, i joined up to escape the shit hole i was in, and enjoyed the job for 12 years, I was more qualified than my superiors, because i thrive on knowledge and learning, and I am well aware that i can influence my own destiny by being my own master.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests