Singapore Expats Forum

Employment Pass Regulations?

Moving to Singapore? Ask our regular expats in Singapore questions on relocation and their experience here. Ask about banking, employment pass, insurance, visa, work permit, citizenship or immigration issues.

Sponsored by:
Image
The Club Residences

Confused

Employment Pass Regulations?

Postby Confused » Fri, 09 Jan 2004 2:16 pm

Dear all,

I am a little confused here. I had been offered to be transfered to Singapore Head Office around six months ago, but haven't made any real progress since then. The issue that Head Office HR gave me was that they were not able to secure an EP(P2) for me. However as far as what I have understood from info on MOM website is that: there is no need to prove that position couldn't be filled with local, all they have to do is maintain the ratio of expats:locals(3:7).

Other than that, I have a BS in Finance Management, Management of Technology and minor in Computer Science from Syracuse Univ., NY and I had been working for this MNC for last 18 months at CIS Head Office as Business Analyst.

Here comes the question: I am a little confused with the info on the web and HR messages, and trying to understand where the truth is.

1. What's the regulation with EP?
1.1. Do they have to prove that locals can't fill the position?
1.1.a. If even so, what are my chances to get an EP?

2. What are my chances these days, given my background?

Any comments appreciated.

Pal
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1220
Joined: Wed, 23 Jul 2003
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby Pal » Fri, 09 Jan 2004 11:22 pm

Any advice from experienced expats ?


Pal

User avatar
jpatokal
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3014
Joined: Tue, 09 Dec 2003
Location: Terra Australis Incognita

Postby jpatokal » Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:19 am

The sad truth is that in all countries, including Singapore, the immigration bureaucracy is basically not accountable to anybody. They make up the rules, they apply them as they wish, and they don't have to tell you why the application was rejected.

So. I don't believe Sing has the "can't be filled by local" requirement, esp. since you'll be working for an MNC. It's a new year and quotas have been zeroed, apply again or appeal the rejection and see what happens. What do you have to lose?

How many expats does your MNC have in Singapore anyway? Is the local HR dept capable of finding its rear end in the dark without a flashlight, or are they little happy Singaporean bureaucrats themselves who wouldn't dream of questioning a Decision by the Authority? You're obviously not terribly confident about their abilities, or else you wouldn't be asking here in the first place...

Confused

Postby Confused » Mon, 12 Jan 2004 3:13 pm

jpatokal:
I do agree about bureaucracy stuff, however there should be some general guidelines to follow.

I felt suspicios of the HR, "those VERY little S'poreans", capabilities because:

1. They said EP was rejected by Authority, however I have never filled out/signed the application yet. I have only sent them my Certificates, and some other dox only. When I questioned that I got "We applied through the company", however MOM website says that application signed by BOTH Employer and Employee is required.
2. I haven't been formaly offered anything yet, it all has been verbal and nothing on the paper. At first instance, I felt weird, but then took it as a corporate culture stuff.

Regarding Expats, they have around 100 ppl in office 30-35 of them are on expat package. I am not precise on figures because some of them might have got PRs after all.

The apealing might worsen the relation with the team in Singapore office, so even if I win the case and get there I might end up in situation where they will watch my rear to screw up once. It's a delicate situation, have to handle it with cool mind and be backed up with info.


Peace

lily_day

EP

Postby lily_day » Mon, 12 Jan 2004 3:54 pm

Confused,

you mentioned that you have applied for employment yourself, from what I know is that it's normally the companies who will apply on behalf of the potential employee's, how come your company had you to apply yourself.. also as you mentioned there was no firm offer to the job, that could be a factor that application for employment passes have to have concrete job offers from the companies?

Don't know if i am right or wrong..correct me if i am wrong.. do we have any forumers working in the HR Deprtment..could enlighten us.. 8)

User avatar
jpatokal
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3014
Joined: Tue, 09 Dec 2003
Location: Terra Australis Incognita

Postby jpatokal » Mon, 12 Jan 2004 4:22 pm

Confused, sounds quite strange to me, to the degree of somebody not wanting to tell you the full story... for one thing, SIR definitely needs your signature for an EP application, plus a whole load of evidence on who you're working for, how much you'll make, yadda yadda.

Are you sure the company really is planning on transferring you? Do you have any 'independent' contacts at the SG office who could ask around for you? If you have no other options, then call HR in Singapore directly and ask them what's up. If they keep waffling, assume the worst.

It's completely unethical and unreasonable for a company to keep an employee on the edge of their seat for half a year, and also a bad sign. This happened to me once, and I went ahead with the transfer anyway, only to find myself in a job completely different from what had agreed (orally!) with half the (orally!) promised benefits gone. Fortunately, I had to get my visa renewed halfway through, and was able to counter-extort them by threatening to not renew it. :twisted: After that gig was up, I changed companies and am very happy I did so.

Confused

Postby Confused » Mon, 12 Jan 2004 6:04 pm

lily_day:

No I haven't mentioned it as far as I remember :)


jpatokal:

Yeah. that's why I am here ... it's not strange it's weird and absolutelly unethical. I am aware of what's required to be filled along with application.

I am confused about their intentions since they haven't given me valid reasons so far. They have initiated this themselves in exchange for the commissions from an ERP system I have built here for them in a matter of 12 months. And now seems like they have made up their minds the other way. I did look for answers in SG and HR there, but same outcome.
The structure in this MNC is pretty weird too, Opposite of Equal Opportunity Employment Rules. And Indian Spices make their management style very cultural. After all is one big Indian commodity trading corporation.

Unfortunally, I had been silly enough not to have back up plans like other offers, etc. and the only way I can extort things is the ERP(Enterprisewide Resource Planning) system which I have built. But even that could not work out. They tend to exploit cheap labor, thus might say "Alright you shut down the system, but local staff will suffer"

Confronting them doesn't help ... I am so pissed off these days ... I think I better start looking for back-ups somewhere not in third world country.

Any advises or ideas?

Thank you.

User avatar
jpatokal
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3014
Joined: Tue, 09 Dec 2003
Location: Terra Australis Incognita

Postby jpatokal » Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:48 pm

Maybe you should contact SIR in Singapore directly and ask about the status of your application? If they can't find any (which sounds likely), then you'll know that HR has been lying to you, and it's time to start looking at other options very seriously...

URL: http://app.ica.gov.sg/index.asp

(and looks like SIR is now known as ICA... acronym soup, love it!)

Confused

Postby Confused » Wed, 14 Jan 2004 5:07 pm

In any case, can anyone advise what are the formal regulations and procedures for EP?

Any idea about my chances getting to Singapore with this/other co.?

After doing some investigation in Singapore office, and particularly at HR side, I am realizing that Co. is in limbo on taking a commitment and finilizing the application. I am not quite sure what is causing them to be so hesitating on this, might be lots of reasons.

In preparation for the worst, it will take me dozen of keyboard keystrokes to shut down the system and walk away with it. Anyone who dealt with ERP, would know what I am talking about, but that the "last resourt". I bet there would be plenty of other options.

Peace


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Relocating, Moving to Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests