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Postby Forks » Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:49 am

Dare I ask what is a "true breed" SGPer? Sounds like we are discussing dog breeds or something. "Oh he is a pure breed cocker spaniel, mines a 100% great Dane." huh?

Also what nation doesnt have athletes which have been naturalized on their teams? or isnt loaded to the nines on ster.... performance enhancing.... errr trains hard.

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Postby durain » Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:54 am

did the american make a song and dance about their flag carrier for the 2008 olympic? the dude was a sudanese refugee!

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Postby cavalier » Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:58 am

Really SMS what's with the ad hominem attack? I'd love for you to point out where in my post I attacked the girls for coming here.

I rooted for the girls just like everyone else. But is a medal so important that Singapore should try to buy one? In my opinion, it cheapens it.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 16 Aug 2008 12:41 pm

And yet you are here on an "Expat" site. Expats brought in as "hired guns" because the government want's us here to help you locals to have a better life by imparting knowledge not available here. They also welcome us to take up PR and Citizenship. Why are you here on this site if "hired guns" you are so against? Does that cheapen you by association? If you all aren't capable doing it yourself, then the government has to find those who will do it for you in the interest of the country. At least the newcomers are myopic. I still think you are sad for even suggesting it.

You should be proud that someone would want to come here and give their best for this myopic bunch of complainers.

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Postby cavalier » Sat, 16 Aug 2008 1:23 pm

SMS, I love how you don't know me, but you know why I am in Singapore and feel entitled to tell me how I should I feel. Bravo. :roll:

All the same I will be rooting for the girls on Sunday.

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Postby Biogentic » Sat, 16 Aug 2008 1:34 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Biogentic wrote:nothing to shout about, the player wasn't a true breed Singaporean to begin with and to let a FT carry our flag is a disgrace to our local breed sportsman.


And you are a disgrace to your country you myopic little child. Unless you are a Malay, then you are a foreigner as well because your family immigrated here just like they did. Now don't you feel stupid? You sure sound stupid. I believe the girls all are carrying Singapore passports just like you. Grow up and get a life.


i am not a disgrace to my country, because i grown up here, serve my NS, fly my flag high. You are a disgrace by shouting that it is fine to use a foreign talent for something our local don't even get to enjoy... since u said we belong to the same family as the china men, then why dont let them control our parliament? our economic system? we belong to one big happy Chinese family? This country is ours, although our ancestor come from china it doesn't signify this piece of land belong to them. u

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Postby Biogentic » Sat, 16 Aug 2008 1:39 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
cavalier wrote:I was rooting for Singapore and am happy they won, but I felt that the achievement was discounted by the fact that none of the players are native-born Singaporeans. Does anyone know when they came to Singapore? Are they hired guns?


Why does it matter? Are you Malay? If not, you are no better than they are. They came here for a better future, just like your family did. I think the achievement is all the more special as they felt comfortable enough to leave their families and friends to immigrate to Singapore to help build up this little red dot of ungrateful wretches. That says, to me, that they got something more on the ball than you do. They stepped out of their comfort zones to come here to contribute to this nation. What are you doing? Besides complaining that is......


u mentioned that i am a myopic person... but you yourself didn't think it logically. Those FT that we hired for our sports arena are rejected from their country national team, that why they join us. Definitely not like what you said, they are living in their comfort zone and now stepping out to help us win a medal. They are playing sports for survival, if they cant make it to the national team, they barely have anything.

The fact is that, so many millions of dollars of TAXPAYER money has been used to fund all these foreigners when the money could be used to nurture our local sportsman... just like i am telling you, will you use your monthly salary to feed someone you dunnoe at all or you are willing to spend your salary on your family or friends?

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Postby banana » Sat, 16 Aug 2008 2:46 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:And yet you are here on an "Expat" site. Expats brought in as "hired guns" because the government want's us here to help you locals to have a better life by imparting knowledge not available here. They also welcome us to take up PR and Citizenship. Why are you here on this site if "hired guns" you are so against? Does that cheapen you by association? If you all aren't capable doing it yourself, then the government has to find those who will do it for you in the interest of the country. At least the newcomers are myopic. I still think you are sad for even suggesting it.

You should be proud that someone would want to come here and give their best for this myopic bunch of complainers.


SMS, I'd like to disagree with you but you're right. For some bizarre reason, if a local and an expat were to say the exact same thing under the same exact circumstance, it is the expat who will be listened to and rewarded.

That said, if only it were the case where the majority of expats actually had something of value to contribute.
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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sat, 16 Aug 2008 4:18 pm

banana wrote:SMS, I'd like to disagree with you but you're right. For some bizarre reason, if a local and an expat were to say the exact same thing under the same exact circumstance, it is the expat who will be listened to and rewarded.

Give us more credit than that. Yes there are some with "one eye big one eye small" but there are many and increasing numbers of discerning people here. For example, on this site I listen to and value your opinions (yes you may puff that chest a little now) more than I do some expats.

This thread is interesting. It makes me wonder what it means to be Singaporean. A red passport? Love for the country? Contribution? I am willing to concede that although the girls are China-born, at this moment they are better Singaporeans than I am because they have sweat to raise the Singapore flag high on the international arena and I have not achieved that.

I'll go a step further and say that some of our ministers I would question as 'true-blooded' Singaporeans because if war came to Singapore, they might not stay and fight - they'd be VIP'ed on some military jet to a haven outside Singapore. What if a foreigner chose to stay and fight? Wouldn't that make him more Singaporean than the fleeing born-and-bred here ones?

I would say that for simplicity's sake we should just look at passport / citizenship. But then what about people with multiple passports? What nationality are they? Do we use country of birth as a guide, or country of residence, or country of allegiance? This is getting too confusing for me.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sat, 16 Aug 2008 4:30 pm

Biogentic wrote:The fact is that, so many millions of dollars of TAXPAYER money has been used to fund all these foreigners when the money could be used to nurture our local sportsman...

The problem is there are too few local sportsmen to choose from. Singaporean parents want their children to spend time on studies rather than on sport. I myself chose to go to university rather than take a year out to represent Singapore at Asian level, something that I now regret. Plus, I am a taxpayer too and would rather my dollars support a foreigner-turned-Singaporean who practised 10 hours a day and was mentally tough, than a born-Singaporean who takes a day off a week and expects adulation just because he is best in the country though completely unproven in the world.

Biogentic wrote:will you use your monthly salary to feed someone you dunnoe at all or you are willing to spend your salary on your family or friends?

Why can't we do both? I feed my family with my monthly salary, and give an almost equal amount to people I don't know. Singapore has the resources to do both as well, I believe. We need to stop having a scarcity mentality, an either-or approach to life. Learn to juggle more than one ball at a time. Understand that we don't merely distribute a fixed amount of resources, but can create more resources with the right actions. Grow the pie blah blah.

Now that Singapore has an Olympic medal, maybe our young people will dare to dream again, dare to stand up to their parents and go the sports instead of academic route, dare to believe that they too can one day achieve the same... I heard a story about the pelicans of Monterey Bay which used to feed on waste from fishing boats. When the boats went away, the pelicans started dying out as they'd forgotten how to catch fish in the wild. So the government imported pelicans from elsewhere to supplement the local population. Unexpectedly, the local birds learnt how to fish from the imported wild ones, and became self-sufficient again. That is what I hope will happen to Singapore. And it will only happen if we welcome and learn from the imports, not if we peck them to death because they're 'not one of us'.
Last edited by Wind In My Hair on Sat, 16 Aug 2008 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Plavt » Sat, 16 Aug 2008 4:36 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote: Do we use country of birth as a guide, or country of residence, or country of allegiance? This is getting too confusing for me.


An interesting point; no matter where you are born you could spend all your life in another country. Does that make the individual or individuals concerned any less a citizen?

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Postby sierra2469alpha » Sat, 16 Aug 2008 5:07 pm

Well we all bleed the same colour blood. Maybe we should all start there?

P

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Postby Currymeister » Sat, 16 Aug 2008 5:57 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:
Now that Singapore has an Olympic medal, maybe our young people will dare to dream again, dare to stand up to their parents and go the sports instead of academic route,


Not a good idea WIMH. Don't be so niaive.

Education should always be put first. Sport, and particularly athletics, does not provide long term financial stability (mass sports of Europe and USA excepted).

There's no reason why further education and aspirations for sporting excellence can't be nurtured simultaneously.

Then if one doesn't make it in sport they have something to fall back on.

Parents would support their kids if they can manage both through school and university.

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Postby banana » Sat, 16 Aug 2008 6:08 pm

^^ what sierra2469alpha said

Wind In My Hair wrote:Give us more credit than that. Yes there are some with "one eye big one eye small" but there are many and increasing numbers of discerning people here. For example, on this site I listen to and value your opinions (yes you may puff that chest a little now) more than I do some expats.


You certainly know how to push the buttons on a banana! That's it, you're getting a vote on that Ms SingaporeExpat thingy. :lol:

What I said to SMS is somewhat tongue in cheek. I recall there being a number of threads where the incapacity of text to convey emotions effectively were discussed. By the same token, it allows people to think through what has been said and how to respond (hint for some people). In a f2f setting, we don't always have that luxury. Especially not in a fast paced society like Singapore.

Nonetheless, you're right. There are more and more discerning folks. I just hope it reaches tipping point faster than the gap is widening.

Wind In My Hair wrote:This thread is interesting. It makes me wonder what it means to be Singaporean. A red passport? Love for the country? Contribution? I am willing to concede that although the girls are China-born, at this moment they are better Singaporeans than I am because they have sweat to raise the Singapore flag high on the international arena and I have not achieved that.

I'll go a step further and say that some of our ministers I would question as 'true-blooded' Singaporeans because if war came to Singapore, they might not stay and fight - they'd be VIP'ed on some military jet to a haven outside Singapore. What if a foreigner chose to stay and fight? Wouldn't that make him more Singaporean than the fleeing born-and-bred here ones?

I would say that for simplicity's sake we should just look at passport / citizenship. But then what about people with multiple passports? What nationality are they? Do we use country of birth as a guide, or country of residence, or country of allegiance? This is getting too confusing for me.


You know, I reckon ping pong is China's greatest export. They're basically leasing out their players to other countries to go back home and play against each other. Pure profit. Brilliant.
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Postby QRM » Sat, 16 Aug 2008 6:10 pm

Plavt wrote:
Wind In My Hair wrote: Do we use country of birth as a guide, or country of residence, or country of allegiance? This is getting too confusing for me.


An interesting point; no matter where you are born you could spend all your life in another country. Does that make the individual or individuals concerned any less a citizen?


True I was born in Japan and have Japanese relatives but I would be deported from the country if I over stay my visa. So its not just about where you are born.


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