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Drive Through Surrogacy

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Plavt
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Postby Plavt » Sat, 16 Aug 2008 7:22 pm

banana wrote:Jeebus Harold Christ. Am I conservative for thinking this is a terrible idea? Outsourcing procreation? Really? What next, paying someone off to die on your behalf? Oh wait...

Seriously, the whole "opportunity to feed her family" argument is nothing but weak, consolatory rationalising. There is something wrong with the economic system if someone has to rent her womb out to survive


I am a little surprised by your post banana. There often is something seriously wrong with the economic system. Surely you know that better than me as a resident of the region; it's no secret that so many women in Thailand, The Philippines and Indonesia enter prostitution owing to the lack of jobs, the economy being a disaster. The same being true of much of India despite the boom through outsourcing of foreign companies. Under such circumstances those lacking in education and opportunities will revert to desperate measures for sure, or am I missing something here?

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Postby banana » Sat, 16 Aug 2008 8:02 pm

Plavt wrote:
banana wrote:Jeebus Harold Christ. Am I conservative for thinking this is a terrible idea? Outsourcing procreation? Really? What next, paying someone off to die on your behalf? Oh wait...

Seriously, the whole "opportunity to feed her family" argument is nothing but weak, consolatory rationalising. There is something wrong with the economic system if someone has to rent her womb out to survive


I am a little surprised by your post banana. There often is something seriously wrong with the economic system. Surely you know that better than me as a resident of the region; it's no secret that so many women in Thailand, The Philippines and Indonesia enter prostitution owing to the lack of jobs, the economy being a disaster. The same being true of much of India despite the boom through outsourcing of foreign companies. Under such circumstances those lacking in education and opportunities will revert to desperate measures for sure, or am I missing something here?


You're not wrong Plavt. I'm stating the obvious simply as rhetoric. Just remarking that the tinting on one's glasses is not always rose but blood.
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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 17 Aug 2008 12:14 am

banana wrote:I'm stating the obvious simply as rhetoric. Just remarking that the tinting on one's glasses is not always rose but blood.

And the tinting on glasses doesn't matter if a person is blind. (Don't ask me what that means, just participating in the 'rhetoric' so I sound as intelligent as you.)

I had a big argument with some Catholic friends recently about contraception in the Philippines. According to some people's morals, it is 'wrong' to use contraception, and my point was - tell that to the woman who already has 5 children to feed and whose husband has another woman and another family to feed.

Scene shift to India. There are real people with real problems. And unless I'm willing to get down on my hands and knees and help, I'm not going to sit here and say "you can't do this and you can't do that because it's morally wrong". There are women who are desperate, and this may be an option. Not ideal of course. Neither is IVF. What's the difference between in infertile couple having a baby in a tube and a baby in a real womb? Do the IVF doctors need the money more, or the fertile but poor women in India?

I'm not saying I advocate it, I'm just saying I am not going to condemn it offhand, from a distance, knowing very little about what all the parties are going through.

Back to the rhetoric - it's you and others who are making moral judgments now that are wearing tinted glasses, seeing the world in a certain way. When we try to suspend judgment for a while, sometimes we see things more clearly. Try it.

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Postby banana » Sun, 17 Aug 2008 1:17 am

I'm just offering an opinion :(

note to self: never get into a debate with a woman about wombs.

PS: I wasn't making a moral judgement about the people who may need these rent-a-womb services, either as provider or client. Rather the potential for abuse, which WILL become the main use as history has shown with almost all technologies. Also, the state of affairs we must be in as a species to reach this level. And how much lower we will sink when it comes to pass.
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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 17 Aug 2008 7:31 am

banana wrote:Rather the potential for abuse, which WILL become the main use as history has shown with almost all technologies.

Examples please? Or merely more rhetoric?

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Postby banana » Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:50 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:
banana wrote:Rather the potential for abuse, which WILL become the main use as history has shown with almost all technologies.

Examples please? Or merely more rhetoric?


The Internet - Porn.
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Postby Global Citizen » Sun, 17 Aug 2008 12:46 pm

banana wrote:
Wind In My Hair wrote:
banana wrote:Rather the potential for abuse, which WILL become the main use as history has shown with almost all technologies.

Examples please? Or merely more rhetoric?


The Internet - Porn.


Banana, I'm truly lost here. What am I missing? Could you kindly clarify how internet porn and surrogacy could be related as issues with potential for abuse.
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Postby banana » Sun, 17 Aug 2008 2:07 pm

You're not missing anything GC, I was merely being facetious.
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Postby QRM » Sat, 23 Aug 2008 6:55 pm

This is how it all gets messy, cant help feeling the surrogate mother is holding the baby as hostages to get a higher fee, interesting to note its not some poor third world woman surrogate.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... abies.html

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Postby Global Citizen » Sat, 23 Aug 2008 8:46 pm

I share the same feelings as you regarding the surrogate mother. What the hell could this single mother offer these twins who're not even hers by right when she's already got 2 of her own living in less than ideal conditions?

There's always potential for abuse when money is the motivation. However for many couples desperate to have children, this is often a last resort as many have already exhausted all other avenues. There is no doubt in my mind that laws have to be put into place to safe guard parents who may be subjected to the issue presented here to prevent scenarios like this.
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Postby Forks » Sat, 23 Aug 2008 11:45 pm

While im not against surrogate mothers per se there is something about this that just sounds wrong.

The previous point that many women in the third world are already using their bodies to make money in ways they may not want to but have to is a start but what really seems wrong is the idea that having a child is something to be outsourced, if the couple is infertile (which many more people seem to be these days, or is it just coz people start familes later, I dont know) then maybe so but otherwise, why not outsource the parenting as well because if your worried about losing your body then wait til the kids have you tearing your hair out, then you loose your sanity.

Damm straight having kids is hard but the idea of a child "ruining' a woman's body is a somewhat strange idea, not all women turn into wrecked hulks after kids, plenty of beautiful and attractive mothers around.

The legal and ethical issues aside for a moment what about the child one day wanting to find out who its third parent was and what about the bonding that goes on in the womb, babies in there are affected by things such as the food the mother eats, the conditions she lives in and all sorts of other things like sounds.

No, third world surrogate mothering will undoubtedly become a big business but that dont make it right, and the minefield of unexplored issues around this make it very perilous, this isnt like having a c-section on demand, its a much larger issue and a step away from a baby in a bottle, very brave new world.

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Postby Thaiclan » Sun, 24 Aug 2008 8:44 am

Already this option is being abused. Forget just wealthy parents sending in egss and sperm to be carried, now we can have people paid for their eggs and sperm to create a child that essentially belongs to no-one and can be "farmed" for when the wealthy need a new kidney, heart, liver ......
Now THAT is a horrifying abuse of an alternative option, but one which will enevitably grow out of economic demand. :evil:


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