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Is Singapore brutal for using the cane

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EADG
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Postby EADG » Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:00 am

I hear you KSL and this was why I mentioned cannibalism - sounds outlandish now but not so long ago still occurred in some countries.

Although societies may not always progress in the most positive directions, over the ages those things that get eventually phased out seem unbelievable in hindsight.

I was reading Mark Twain recently, back in his day is was duels. Imagine that today.

ksl wrote:Fox Hunting, dog fights, hare coursing, beasting, boxing, have all been introduced by the intellectual hierarchy
Ape Shall Not Kill Ape

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Postby Plavt » Tue, 05 Aug 2008 6:55 am

ksl wrote:some actually try to break into the prisons because of the luxury.



. :?
I don't know where you get this from; UK prisons along with many others in the world are dirty smelly places where inmates are often 'banged-up' two to a cell twenty-three hours a day. The fact that UK jails are overcrowded is well known

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Postby durain » Tue, 05 Aug 2008 8:12 am

i'm sure i read somewhere about UK prisons are quite cushy with big plasma screens, satellite channels and PS3/Wii console.

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Postby Plavt » Tue, 05 Aug 2008 8:51 am

durain wrote:i'm sure i read somewhere about UK prisons are quite cushy with big plasma screens, satellite channels and PS3/Wii console.


Sure you did (in a fairy tale)

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Postby Addadude » Tue, 05 Aug 2008 9:18 am

In Ireland there was a case a couple of years ago where a father was jailed for slapping his misbehaving child in public. By all accounts, it was fairly normal slap on the hand that I'm sure most of our parents gave us as kids - but he was seen doing so by a garda (Irish policeman), who promptly arrested him. He was actually ordered to move out of the family home and could only see his children under strict supervision. I was looking for a link to the story but couldn't find it.

I did find this though;

http://www.galwayadvertiser.ie/content/index.php?aid=671&PHPSESSID=b4eff97cb9d8c08d07941f4eb5de3bbe

Sorry but the article is copyrighted and cannot be reproduced without the publishers permission.

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Postby durain » Tue, 05 Aug 2008 4:57 pm

Plavt wrote:
durain wrote:i'm sure i read somewhere about UK prisons are quite cushy with big plasma screens, satellite channels and PS3/Wii console.


Sure you did (in a fairy tale)


it's no fairy tale dude. it's for real. here's a small cap from a UK online newspaper...

Pampered prisoners supplied with £221,726 of PlayStations
Prisoners across the country are being supplied with computer games ... The Prison Service has spent £221,726 on PlayStation, Xbox and Nintendo systems ...
Last edited by durain on Tue, 05 Aug 2008 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Saint » Tue, 05 Aug 2008 5:04 pm

durain wrote:
Plavt wrote:
durain wrote:i'm sure i read somewhere about UK prisons are quite cushy with big plasma screens, satellite channels and PS3/Wii console.


Sure you did (in a fairy tale)


it's no fairy tale dude. it's for real.


Durain is right and they even get the keys to their own cells/rooms!!

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Postby ksl » Tue, 05 Aug 2008 5:18 pm

Plavt wrote:
ksl wrote:some actually try to break into the prisons because of the luxury.



. :?
I don't know where you get this from; UK prisons along with many others in the world are dirty smelly places where inmates are often 'banged-up' two to a cell twenty-three hours a day. The fact that UK jails are overcrowded is well known


Actually the only ones banged up 23 hrs a day are the ones that are imprisoned for non criminal charges. like failure to pay alimony and minor offences like non payment of fines, and they are banged up in large numbers 10 to 15 to a cell and locked in 23 hrs a day, with no TV, and no social interaction with others, because their is insufficient prison staff to look after short term prisoners.

I did my 6 weeks at Walton in Liverpool, in 83 and will never forget the cramped conditions. The many of the prison screws were corrupt and open to bribes, and in fact those running the prison shop, finally got caught for over charging in 1983.

Those that believe the Prison service is clean of wrong doings need to think again, like all other places, were psychopaths hide, the police force and prison service does an extremely good job of covering up. Just like we see all too often in the USA when exposed by video, it happens every place in the world and colleagues don't discuss these imperfections.

long term prisoners have all the luxury of gyms, TV's, and decorative cells and even drugs are no problem at all.

Well i can't find the survey which was done, showing the amount of prison break ins have risen, since the luxury of prison life, had everything one could wish for. It is out there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 946627.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4131444.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/2015128.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/educ ... 574739.stm
Last edited by ksl on Thu, 25 Aug 2011 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Plavt » Tue, 05 Aug 2008 7:08 pm

I have had a look at the article supplied by durain and no doubt that has happened but I doubt very much if that is the case in every jail in Britain besides I wouldn't put too much faith in newspaper articles The Daily Mail being one in particular.

For comparison read this;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/apr/29/prisonsandprobation.justice

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Postby ksl » Tue, 05 Aug 2008 8:42 pm

Plavt wrote:I have had a look at the article supplied by durain and no doubt that has happened but I doubt very much if that is the case in every jail in Britain besides I wouldn't put too much faith in newspaper articles The Daily Mail being one in particular.

For comparison read this;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/apr/29/prisonsandprobation.justice


This is not really a comparison at all, It is supporting what we are saying all along! The fact was what he said, was all hogwash and Jack straw too is full of crap...the suicide rates are high simply because most of them are innocent people that have been locked up, or first timers. This is what winds me up the most, the whole police system has been a self financing system, with targets to meet, which means you the public are targeted.

There is not much use in arresting criminals, because they don't pay, these hardened criminals will do the time standing on their heads...the police know, this. and the biggest wind up of hall is the magistrates court, where the 3 judges take the word of a shit faced clerk of the court.

This is also a reminder to myself, that the UK system stinks of old age and festering wrotten discrimination if it can get away with it. Nothing whatsoever to do with justice, there is no justice! It's all tax payers money so who gives a crap, the opposition :) My own personal opinion is they, and i mean every single one of them in parliament are all has beens, that live in another world. it's all a joke on the tax payer, that puts up with it.

Even today, they are coming out with a pathetic attempt, to put everyone in employment, to work for their dole money for a month out of a year. Christ the rest of Scandinavia have been making people work for 9 months of the year, to qualify for their dole money, everyone is forced to work for the public sector. Yet the UK brains comes up with 1 month working for the public sector. They are all a bunch of armchair academics, with no worldly experience at all, and couldn't organise a chimpanzee tea party. Sorry plavt it just makes my blood boil, because nothing other than a revolution, will change the UK.

Just to put things in perspective can any one at all find a qualified lawyer in European law? I have contacted the law society and they sent me a specific list of qualifications of lawyers, not one is found to be qualified in European law :???: So i would be very grateful if anyone can find one.

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Postby earthfriendly » Wed, 06 Aug 2008 11:39 am

EADG wrote:"


To even consider caning another human being will gladly remain barbaric and beyond this Westerner.


None of my friends and family, both SG and USA, use the cane anymore. I am the only one that I know who used it :oops: .

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Postby earthfriendly » Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:01 pm

I am sorry if I come across as judgmental. I got carried away :oops: . Parenting is a tough job and the last thing I want is for others to tell me what a horrible parent I am. My previous post was unhelpful!

I am writing solely from my personal experience. My experience with the stick has all been negative.

WIMH, your parents are lucky that you are a more accepting person than I am. I love and respect my mother. She is truly kind and compassionate towards everyone. She had used the cane on me on very few occassions. And when she did, I immediately loose respect for her the moment she picked up the stick. In my heart I questioned her effectiveness and right to be my mother. Until she figured out how to dicipline me without resorting to it, I am unable to respect her 100 %. In this life, only Mr. EF is allowed to cane and whip me !

I did not cane my kids out of love but to teach them some lessons in life. Because I love them, I search out althernative method of discipline. To me, the cane has no educational value. I do not believe my girls remember why they were caned in the first place but rather, the terror and fear that they felt. I truly believe every child is godsend and angelic. And as adults, we have to love, treasure and respect them. They are also very fragile and have to be handled with great care.
Last edited by earthfriendly on Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby earthfriendly » Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:22 pm

road.not.taken wrote: I really do believe that children learn what they live.



My girls had learnt to hit out at each other when they did not used to do it previously. I can't help but wonder if I am responsible for it. I have taught them to use their words and other peaceful means to resolve conflicts. Everyone in the family has to live by that rule and I am not exempted from it! Just recently when she hit her sister, I intervened and reminded her about the rule. She immediately reminded me I caned her when she was 3 yo. I think I will hear no end of it for the next 30 years. Some people have elephant memory!

Mothers do not always know best and I told her I made a mistake (now I got to live with it). I made a pact with my daughter that I would not use the cane anymore. However, I need their help. They need to cooperate and behave a a reasonable manner even when frustrated. They are getting it, slowly but surely and understood that their behaviours and attitude are major determinants of our parenting style.

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Postby earthfriendly » Fri, 08 Aug 2008 3:43 pm

ksl wrote:Plavt I fully understand your opinion and other peoples too, it would be nice to find alternative ways, and i have tried quite a few, with my own kids, it appears they only listen, when the cane comes out, especially with homework.



This could turn into a chronic issue. My friend has a son, about 11 yo. He has trouble getting his daily homework done. My friend had to supervise him very closely or else his mind would start to wonder. He would find every opportunity to wiggle out of it if his mom was out of sight and instead focus on other activities like playing video game. To compound to the problem, his teacher does not grade homework. My friend approached the principal who told her that every teacher had their own teaching styles and this happened to be the style of the teacher in question. English is not her native tongue and it is hard for her or her son to know if the homework is done correctly and the son mastered the subject.

I only learnt about all this of late. The best advise I could offer was to make his son understand that getting the homework done on a timely manner was his responsibility. She is resigned to the situation and does not see the light at the end of the tunnel. This has affected her emotional and mental well-being. And her marriage too. She could not comprehend her son's behavior. As a kid, she was very motivated to get her homework done on her own. Other than that her son seem to be a rather reasonable boy. I don't know if it is plausible for her to continue living this way. To me, it seems like a time bomb.

I wish I could help her. Does anyone have any good advice to offer? I know there are many books about parenting but is there one that address the homework issue?


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