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Re: Renouncation of singapore citizenship

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 15 Jun 2010 8:57 am

SMS wrote:Bluesamba2001 & MS,

Bluesamba2001, you do have a problem. Unfortunately, it is one of your own doing and I have a strong feeling that there is nothing at all that can be done. I've been doing some research and it is possible to get citizenship for a child born in Singapore without either parent having citizenship! :o

Definitely a new one for me as well.

http://www.wwlegal.com/module-subjects- ... id-14.html

So, with confirmation that the child is, in fact, a Singaporean, then the timing of the application for the deferment was critical. If the child is now 15, then the ruling, I believe, was still the letter requesting deferment at age 11, but even then, if the child was still holding a valid Singapore Passport, it would have been denied. I'm afraid there isn't going to be much than can be done in this case if the child's Singapore passport was still valid after the age of eleven.

sms


After much searching last night of other legal sites, pertaining to Singapore and Citizenship, I cannot find any other references to something this important. Therefore, I am inclined to think that this may well be a red herring. Let's wait to see what MS can find out from his network, which I'm more inclined to trust. As I said in my initial post, it was something certainly new to me and I've been around a little while as well.

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Renounce Citizenship

Postby Bluesamba2001 » Thu, 17 Jun 2010 2:54 pm

To Mad Scientist and other users who have been helping, I which to apologise as I have realized I have made an error in one of my posts. When informing you of my wife’s and my status I have accidently copied and pasted the wrong things and did not check before posting.

To clarify, my family and I are all New Zealand citizens, I was born in New Zealand and as such a citizen by birth and held Singapore PR, my son is a Singapore citizen by birth, and he obtained New Zealand Citizenship by descent at the age of 7. This is where I made the mistake when copying and pasting, my wife is a Singapore citizen by birth and still has Singapore citizenship, she had New Zealand PR status when we first married and latter become a New Zealand citizen.

I again apologize for any confusion that I have caused and any inconvenience that I may have also caused. I know you have all been working hard to help me and I am sorry I did not pick up on my mistake earlier.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 17 Jun 2010 6:27 pm

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Postby helloagain » Sat, 26 Jun 2010 10:52 am

My wife was born and raised in Singapore. By virtue of this, our 2 sons who were born in Hong Kong obtained their Singapore citizenship by registration. They were always living outside Singapore. The number of social visits made did not add up to 6 weeks since they obtained their Singapore citizenship.

We (except my wife) have obtained our US citizenship in Oct 2008 and we have been trying to defer my elder's son NS since then and have been denied by CMPB repeatedly . (He was 13 at that time). We have sent in copies of his US passport, Singapore passport, Singapore citizen certificate to CMPB and we do not recall filling in any "application of deferment pending renunciation at the age of 21 forms from CMPB". All my communication with CMPB have been through email.

My wife has recently renounced her Singapore citizenship and closed her CPF account. What would you recommend as our next step?

Also , for my younger son who will be turning 12 in Sep, is it too early to notify CMPB and send them the supporting document? CMPB has earlier advised that I do not have to apply until he turns 13.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 26 Jun 2010 11:30 am

helloagain wrote:My wife was born and raised in Singapore. By virtue of this, our 2 sons who were born in Hong Kong obtained their Singapore citizenship by registration. They were always living outside Singapore. The number of social visits made did not add up to 6 weeks since they obtained their Singapore citizenship.

Unless MS has something different, this is what I can see immediately.....

It's not how long the child has been in Singapore. Did he travel on his Singapore Passport? If so, he has used the socio-economic benefits of Singapore. As the US doesn't care about dual citizenship, the fact that he may have a US passport is of no consequence. What does however, is if the Singapore Passport was still a valid passport after the age of 13. If that is the case, AND you did not file the letter of intent of renunciation, then I'm am afraid the gahmen may well have him by the short hairs.

The fact that he has been using a valid Singapore passport to travel with after the age of 13 will be construed as having enjoyed the benefits. (whether he actually traveled with it or not is not relevant)

MS? your thoughts..........?


We (except my wife) have obtained our US citizenship in Oct 2008 and we have been trying to defer my elder's son NS since then and have been denied by CMPB repeatedly . (He was 13 at that time). We have sent in copies of his US passport, Singapore passport, Singapore citizen certificate to CMPB and we do not recall filling in any "application of deferment pending renunciation at the age of 21 forms from CMPB". All my communication with CMPB have been through email.

My wife has recently renounced her Singapore citizenship and closed her CPF account. What would you recommend as our next step?

The safest thing to do is make preparations for relatives here in Singapore to take care of him while he does his NS. OR, have him mentally prepare to never be able to visit Singapore or the relatives here in the future as he would most assuredly be picked up as a deserter.

Also , for my younger son who will be turning 12 in Sep, is it too early to notify CMPB and send them the supporting document? CMPB has earlier advised that I do not have to apply until he turns 13.

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Postby helloagain » Sat, 26 Jun 2010 11:58 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
helloagain wrote:My wife was born and raised in Singapore. By virtue of this, our 2 sons who were born in Hong Kong obtained their Singapore citizenship by registration. They were always living outside Singapore. The number of social visits made did not add up to 6 weeks since they obtained their Singapore citizenship.

Unless MS has something different, this is what I can see immediately.....

It's not how long the child has been in Singapore. Did he travel on his Singapore Passport? If so, he has used the socio-economic benefits of Singapore. As the US doesn't care about dual citizenship, the fact that he may have a US passport is of no consequence. What does however, is if the Singapore Passport was still a valid passport after the age of 13. If that is the case, AND you did not file the letter of intent of renunciation, then I'm am afraid the gahmen may well have him by the short hairs.


The fact that he has been using a valid Singapore passport to travel with after the age of 13 will be construed as having enjoyed the benefits. (whether he actually traveled with it or not is not relevant)

MS? your thoughts..........?


He has renewed his passport past age 12 but it was never used. We did email CMPB that we wish to renounce his Singapore citizenship and we were asked to submit copies of passports, etc for assessment for eligibility for deferment from NS. Is this consider filing our intent of renunciation?


We (except my wife) have obtained our US citizenship in Oct 2008 and we have been trying to defer my elder's son NS since then and have been denied by CMPB repeatedly . (He was 13 at that time). We have sent in copies of his US passport, Singapore passport, Singapore citizen certificate to CMPB and we do not recall filling in any "application of deferment pending renunciation at the age of 21 forms from CMPB". All my communication with CMPB have been through email.

My wife has recently renounced her Singapore citizenship and closed her CPF account. What would you recommend as our next step?

The safest thing to do is make preparations for relatives here in Singapore to take care of him while he does his NS. OR, have him mentally prepare to never be able to visit Singapore or the relatives here in the future as he would most assuredly be picked up as a deserter.

If we want CMPB to reconsider our application, what should we do?

Also , for my younger son who will be turning 12 in Sep, is it too early to notify CMPB and send them the supporting document? CMPB has earlier advised that I do not have to apply until he turns 13.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 26 Jun 2010 4:27 pm

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Postby helloagain » Sat, 26 Jun 2010 10:44 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:
helloagain wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
helloagain wrote:My wife was born and raised in Singapore. By virtue of this, our 2 sons who were born in Hong Kong obtained their Singapore citizenship by registration. They were always living outside Singapore. The number of social visits made did not add up to 6 weeks since they obtained their Singapore citizenship.

He has renewed his passport past age 12 but it was never used. We did email CMPB that we wish to renounce his Singapore citizenship and we were asked to submit copies of passports, etc for assessment for eligibility for deferment from NS. Is this consider filing our intent of renunciation?


We (except my wife) have obtained our US citizenship in Oct 2008 and we have been trying to defer my elder's son NS since then and have been denied by CMPB repeatedly . (He was 13 at that time). We have sent in copies of his US passport, Singapore passport, Singapore citizen certificate to CMPB and we do not recall filling in any "application of deferment pending renunciation at the age of 21 forms from CMPB". All my communication with CMPB have been through email.

My wife has recently renounced her Singapore citizenship and closed her CPF account. What would you recommend as our next step?


If we want CMPB to reconsider our application, what should we do?

Also , for my younger son who will be turning 12 in Sep, is it too early to notify CMPB and send them the supporting document? CMPB has earlier advised that I do not have to apply until he turns 13.


SMS and helloagain

I have read your thread several times. I have to agree with SMS and all his points but I like to inquire more on OP itself on the time frame of his sons procedure b4 I can get to advise.

1. When did you asked CMPB for deferment ? when he turns 13 , earlier or later. How old is he now ?

[color=green]I asked CMPB for deferment when he was 12 (about a week before he turns 13) and the copies of his passports etc were sent 5 days after he turns 13. I was advised by CMPB that the supporting documents should be sent when he turns 13.

The following is the exact quote from CMPB:
“You have indicated that Justin & Jonathan intend to renounce their Singapore citizenship without serving NS. You are required to submit the following information/documents to enable us to assess their eligibility for deferment from NS when they have reached the age of 13 years old, under the Enlistment Act:
a. Photocopy of their Singapore citizenship Certificate and NRIC ; (if any)
b. Date of departure from Singapore and photocopy of their Singapore passport (all pages of their passport); (if any)
c. Photocopy of their US Citizenship certificate or passport (if any)”

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 26 Jun 2010 11:15 pm

helloagain wrote:
6. His SG PP still valid ?

We did renew his SG passport but it was never used. Yes it is still valid.

Also we have a younger son and he is 11 now (12 in Sep). We did not renew his SG passport. What should we do now to avoid the mistakes we made for the elder one?



I believe you will find that No. 6 is your problem. The Singapore passport is still valid, therefore he is still enjoying the socio-economic benefits of being a Singaporean. The fact that he doesn't use it is not relevant in the Government's eyes. The fact that he CAN is the problem. They do NOT make it easy and if they can find one item to throw a spanner into it, they will. They don't publish anything for a reason. They DON"T WANT SINGAPOREAN MALES TO BE ABLE TO GET OUT OF NS. Therefore it's up to the Parents to make sure they follow the protocol exactly.

DO NOT RENEW YOUR YOUNGER SON'S PASSPORT! In fact, I would make copies of the entire passport (like you did with your older son) and then take it to the Singapore Consulate and return it (even though it is expired) and also make sure you get an official Statement, "IN WRITING", acknowledging the return of the Singapore Passport (and when) from the Consulate.....

MS will catch this and give you the timeline/requirements to avoid further complications.......

sms

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Postby helloagain » Sat, 26 Jun 2010 11:25 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
helloagain wrote:
6. His SG PP still valid ?

We did renew his SG passport but it was never used. Yes it is still valid.

Also we have a younger son and he is 11 now (12 in Sep). We did not renew his SG passport. What should we do now to avoid the mistakes we made for the elder one?



I believe you will find that No. 6 is your problem. The Singapore passport is still valid, therefore he is still enjoying the socio-economic benefits of being a Singaporean. The fact that he doesn't use it is not relevant in the Government's eyes. The fact that he CAN is the problem. They do NOT make it easy and if they can find one item to throw a spanner into it, they will. They don't publish anything for a reason. They DON"T WANT SINGAPOREAN MALES TO BE ABLE TO GET OUT OF NS. Therefore it's up to the Parents to make sure they follow the protocol exactly.

DO NOT RENEW YOUR YOUNGER SON'S PASSPORT! In fact, I would make copies of the entire passport (like you did with your older son) and then take it to the Singapore Consulate and return it (even though it is expired) and also make sure you get an official Statement, "IN WRITING", acknowledging the return of the Singapore Passport (and when) from the Consulate.....

Shall I return the elder son's passport as well?

MS will catch this and give you the timeline/requirements to avoid further complications.......

sms

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 26 Jun 2010 11:33 pm

Most definitely. But as it's already after the fact I'm not sure if it will help. It sure cannot hurt though. So, yes. Do them both at the same time.

sms

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sun, 27 Jun 2010 11:19 am

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Postby helloagain » Sun, 27 Jun 2010 11:39 am

Mad Scientist wrote:
Hello again
I had a sleepless night thinking where did you go wrong and so forth. I think I have found the answer. Did you or did you not apply Exit Permit when your eldest son turn 13? If yes what is the exit permit number
Please reply to this and I will advise you from there on both of your son
The above quote is what you told us. Please correct it if we are wrong


Yes, we did apply exit permit for him. We have initially applied one from Oct 08 to Jun 09 (IAV####). Then we have another one from Jun 09 to Dec 09 (IAW####). The current one is from Dec 09 to Aug 10 (IAW####). We selected social visit as the exit permit reason. Thanks.
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Postby Mad Scientist » Sun, 27 Jun 2010 6:38 pm

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 28 Jun 2010 8:56 am

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