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National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 04 Jan 2016 1:53 pm

MS, even if his son was born in Singapore to a MY woman, the OP is only a PR therefore SG citizenship was always off the cards, correct? It would also apply even if the Mother was as PR or not. He did blow it regards getting MY citizenship however. I understand it could take up to 3 or 4 years once started to get Malaysian citizenship even thought the mother is Malaysian as the window for registration is long over with.

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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 04 Jan 2016 1:57 pm

MS, from my reading of both his PM and the Original post, The move, I believe, is being precipitated by the fact of the OP's health issues and the necessity of returning to Aus due to those issues. He doesn't know how much time he has before that move will be necessary so he would like to get them settled in any case. (I also wonder about the need to go back as health care is excellent here - but not exactly free which could be a major consideration over the long term.) Just my thoughts.

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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby AussieMark » Mon, 04 Jan 2016 2:02 pm

I think it was auto corrected by my phone when I put MY citizenship. Never intended for that.

I can ask for 375 day deferment and then return every 3 months.

I want him to do ns just don't want the bond.

If I rescind wife and kids pr then can my son come back and do is when he has completed his Australian A levels.

I dont want to get into which education system is better. My kids are finishing their schooling in Australia.

All advice welcome.

Cheers
Mark

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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby AussieMark » Mon, 04 Jan 2016 2:09 pm

There are a number of reasons for the move including health of myself as well as my aging mother, high cost of living etc etc.

Just want to assess all options. I realise my son will lose his pr and ns liability if my pr or his pr is given up.

I want to know whether the option is still there to do ns after pr given up so that he has the opportunity to work in Singapore in the future.

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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 04 Jan 2016 2:18 pm

Actually, I believe, as MS noted, as he is already above the age of 13, even if you do rescind your PR, your son cannot rescind until such time as he as completed his NS obligations. (The only way around that one would have been if he had left prior to reaching his 13th birthday and following proper protocol) after the age of 13, he is obligated for NS. If he leave with or without an exit permit, he cannot divest himself of his PR until he serves NS. He can, I believe, only finish his basic education (N or O levels & maybe A levels but I'm not sure on this) overseas before he would have to return to do his NS (there are no provisions for doing Tertiary studies overseas (even for citizens) before doing NS. If he returned to Aus and fails to report for NS he will be considered a defaulter and would likely be picked up should he try to re-enter Singapore. If he can work the exit permit (I'm not sure that is even an option at this late date) he would still not be allowed to remain outside beyond his call up date. I'm on shaky ground on exit permits so will have to defer to MS there.

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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby AussieMark » Mon, 04 Jan 2016 2:27 pm

The lady I spoke with as ns said that if I gave up my pr he would lose his pr as he is my dependant. This would have repercussions should he wish to return for work. This needs to be confirmed with ica.

Actually all I wish to do is avoid bond and allow my son to do ns.

The complexity arises when I give up my pr and the families status as pr also falls away. How can my son so ns if there is no longer a requirement.

As a pr I can also give up at any time. But everything is very Grey.....

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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 04 Jan 2016 2:46 pm

The end result is the same, either he cannot give up PR until NS obligation is fulfilled or if they cannot stop him from relinquishing PR due to his dependent status, then they flag him so that he cannot return to work in Singapore later. The requirement for NS is if he is/was a PR, unless he was under the age of 13 so therefore never 'technically' benefitted from the socio-economic advantage of having said PR, he has to repay that debt to Singapore, either either the bond or returning to Singapore to fulfill his obligation. It's a dicey area and I'm not sure how it would go. This is why I'm deferring to MS.

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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 04 Jan 2016 6:05 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:MS, even if his son was born in Singapore to a MY woman, the OP is only a PR therefore SG citizenship was always off the cards, correct? It would also apply even if the Mother was as PR or not. He did blow it regards getting MY citizenship however. I understand it could take up to 3 or 4 years once started to get Malaysian citizenship even thought the mother is Malaysian as the window for registration is long over with.


Not true, years back we had the sane discussion about PR parents with child that was born in Singapore. From memory one was offered after mom gave birth but the other parent applied for it and got it. I am not sure what is the criteria now but right after we had that in the open that ICA page was brought down. Bugger !!!
Of late, you are may be right as it has been awhile
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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 04 Jan 2016 6:10 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:MS, from my reading of both his PM and the Original post, The move, I believe, is being precipitated by the fact of the OP's health issues and the necessity of returning to Aus due to those issues. He doesn't know how much time he has before that move will be necessary so he would like to get them settled in any case. (I also wonder about the need to go back as health care is excellent here - but not exactly free which could be a major consideration over the long term.) Just my thoughts.


Fully agreed on this one as I had the same PM and I told him to share it in the open. Personally I think it is better for wife to stay here with son as the kinship and support is closer albeit Malaysia. Moreover the wife and son has already gotten OZ citizenship hence these is always a back up plan if things does not pan out as he anticipate
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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby AussieMark » Mon, 04 Jan 2016 6:20 pm

OK thanks but the main reason I am staying is I am the bread winner. Private schooling is very expensive in Singapore and wife and son staying in Singapore is not a financially viable option.

I am not trying to avoid ns. My wife is an Aussie pr who needs to be in Australia to retain the pr. Both kids hold Aussie passports.

If I give my pr up all dependants cease to be pr and ns liability falls away. Then he cannot do ns and retain pr.

If I retain pr then upon 16.5 I will have to place a bond or my son will have to come in and out if Singapore every 90 days.

Does anyone have any link to the process of providing a bond. I would like to know the costs and the mechanics.

Remember I am not trying to avoid ns. I am trying to assess what options and avenues I have.

Cheers
Mark

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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 04 Jan 2016 6:21 pm

AussieMark wrote:The lady I spoke with as ns said that if I gave up my pr he would lose his pr as he is my dependant. This would have repercussions should he wish to return for work. This needs to be confirmed with ica.

This is true unless he serves NS and apply his PR / continue on his own capacity which is easy as he already has served the NS which in the gahmen's eyes is GOOD

Actually all I wish to do is avoid bond and allow my son to do ns.

The bond is not the issue. Your son is already pass the age of 13. Bond will be imposed either by money or two guarantors that is one of the parent and a SG relative living in Singapore. Based on personal experience you will be required to pose monetary form of bond due to his age. Your son will do NS if he continue living in SG. If he left for OZ, his exit permit is limited to less than a year as when he turn 16 he will have his first pre medical check up for NS. Nearing to 18 , he only has 3 months exit permit.

The complexity arises when I give up my pr and the families status as pr also falls away. How can my son so ns if there is no longer a requirement.

If you gave up and automatically your family will lose PR, your son does not need to serve NS but to look for work in Singapore in the future is like any new applicant looking for work here but skipping NS will stand out like a sore thumb with MOM even though he is fully qualified to get the job he is after

As a pr I can also give up at any time. But everything is very Grey.....


Yes, you can give your PR anytime
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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 04 Jan 2016 6:25 pm

So, MS, is there any relief for his situation at all, other than the bond? And speaking of which, can he use a banking bond situation where the bank provides the bond for a service charge and insurance guarantee as is done with FDW and Employment Agency bonds?

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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 04 Jan 2016 6:29 pm

AussieMark wrote:OK thanks but the main reason I am staying is I am the bread winner. Private schooling is very expensive in Singapore and wife and son staying in Singapore is not a financially viable option.

OK, granted and fully understand your reasonning

I am not trying to avoid ns. My wife is an Aussie pr who needs to be in Australia to retain the pr. Both kids hold Aussie passports.

If I give my pr up all dependants cease to be pr and ns liability falls away. Then he cannot do ns and retain pr.

True

If I retain pr then upon 16.5 I will have to place a bond or my son will have to come in and out if Singapore every 90 days.

No, the bond is now if you wish to retain SG PR. Once that is done he has One Year exit permit max from memory until he serves NS. This is granted if he is only doing A level education in OZ not tertiary. Proof of that must be submitted to Mindef

Does anyone have any link to the process of providing a bond. I would like to know the costs and the mechanics.

$75 K or the higher income of either one of the parent working in Singapore. It is banker's guarrantee, you wil write it to Mindef and upon your son returning to complete his NS, you can claim it back or provide two sureties as mentioned on previous reply. Go to Mindef / NS centre and talk to them. There should be a form to fill up. Come with all supporting docs on hands

Remember I am not trying to avoid ns. I am trying to assess what options and avenues I have.

Cheers
Mark
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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 04 Jan 2016 6:31 pm

Okay, MS, you've answered my Bankers Guarantee question as well. ;-)

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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby AussieMark » Mon, 04 Jan 2016 6:35 pm

See the issue is we have no Singapore relatives. I am an Aussie and the wife is Malaysian.

I can look into his to sort the bond. I know that you can buy a performance bond however I don't see that as the best solution as it could potentially be quite a cost.

If it were not the higher of formula it would be cheaper. Does the govt have a preferred bond provider.

Adding on because I just read your response. :)

I can provide proof of A level enrollment as both children are attending a Catholic school for their studies.

Sorry for the back and forth.


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