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National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

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Bluesamba2001
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Renounce Citizenship

Postby Bluesamba2001 » Fri, 11 Jun 2010 8:59 am

To Mad Scientist


Question
1. You said he is SGer at birth ? Yes ?

Yes

2. He also hold Kiwi Citizen when he was 7 ? Yes ?
Yes

3. He left for Kiwiland when he was 7 ? Yes ?
Yes

4. Family all Kiwilets and already remain in Kiwiland since then? Yes ?
Yes

5. Both you and wife already renounce SG Citizen? Yes?
We are not SG Citizen, Both are Kiwi Citizen and were SG PR’s. Renounced PR when we left.

6. Did son return back to SG on short trip or at all since 7? Yes ?
Yes, for a holiday on his Kiwi Passport.

7. Did you get son Exit Permit when he turn 13 ? Yes ?
Yes we did.


8. When did you informed CMPB ? Informed CMPB when we first left Singapore. Got reply from the following department

CENTRAL MANPOWER BASE


9. This lady is from Mindef . NOT FROM CMPB. YOU ARE BARKING THE WRONG TREE? How you got a response from Mindef is beyond me unless I have the wrong person?

I also don’t know…..I did write an appeal to Ms Yum Kah Leng after she first refused my son’s deferment and was sent a reply from MINDEF.


10. Have you got anything from CMPB at all NOT MINDEF? Yes ? Yes…

11. If yes , what is it ? Yes this is the letter I got…personal details deleted.



Dear Sir/Mdm,

NATIONAL SERVICE DEFERMENT


As a Singapore citizen, --------- is required to apply for exit permit at the age of 13 years old and to register for national service (NS) upon reaching the age of 16½ years old. He is also required for NS enlistment at the earliest opportunity after reaching the age of 18 years, unless he is granted deferment from NS for his overseas studies.

We have considered --------- case carefully and regret to inform you that we are unable to grant him deferment from NS till the age of 21 years, pending renunciation of his Singapore citizenship. He has to fulfil his NS obligations. MINDEF can only support his renunciation of Singapore citizenship after he has completed his NS obligations.

Please note that it is not possible to defer --------- registration for NS till --------- finished High School. We will be sending you NS Notification Letter for --------- to register through the NS portal at www.ns.sg when he reaches 16½ years old. A bond, in the bond of bank guarantee or by deed (personal sureties) is required for ---------- NS deferment and exit permit for overseas studies. You can contact Mrs Kristen Chua/Madam Gwee See Mai of Central Manpower Base (CMPB) at Tel : 63733131/63736273 or email at Hd_NSD@starnet.gov.sg on ---------- eligibility for bond by deed.


Yours sincerely,



ME NSR BR, NSRMC
CENTRAL MANPOWER BASE


12. You applied for deferment to 21 until renounce ? Yes ? Who did you send to ? CMPB or Mindef?

We sent to CMPB

I hope that this information helps....any help you can give us would be appricated greatly.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 11 Jun 2010 4:04 pm

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Re: Renounce Citizenship

Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:20 am

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Bluesamba2001
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Renounce SG citizenship

Postby Bluesamba2001 » Sat, 12 Jun 2010 9:30 pm

Mad Scientist


Hope these answers help

1. So your PR is under PTS scheme ?

I am not sure what PTS is…however we first went to Singapore on Employment Pass after two years applied for PR, which was approved.

2. Why did you register your son birth as SGer as you can always get a dependent pass under your PR if he is registered on your own native country.

Our intention at the time was to stay in Singapore so it was just easier to register him as a SG, all done at the hospital so it was simple to do….had no idea about NS at the time. When son was registered they did not say anything about him having to do NS.

3. WHy did you leave SG when your child is at 7 years of age , not even going to Pri 1 in SG.

After much thought we decided to return home to be with family. It was not to escape NS as we thought we would be able to renounce his SG citizenship since we were going back home and that our son had kiwi citizenship.


Your other question…

Your son, did he acquire Singapore Citizen or he was on dependent pass after he was born since both of you are SPR.

Same as answer to question 2.

Also, we did not worry about kiwi citizenship at the time of birth as we could obtain this latter on….NZ law allows for children to obtain Citizenship by descent as long as one parent is a NZ citizen and that the application is made before the child is 18 years old.

I hope this all helps, we would really appreciate all the help we can get as we are not in the position financially to afford to send him back to do NS, it will be a burden that we just can not afford…we would also want to do this in a legal way as we don’t want to stuff up our son’s future by having him try to escape doing NS.

Thanks

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 12 Jun 2010 9:35 pm

I think that there is one crucial bit of info missing here. That or I've missed it .

How old was your son when you first applied for an Exit Permit?

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Postby joan.wallaby » Sun, 13 Jun 2010 10:40 am

All these is rather abstract to me o.o

MS, so to clarify, he is only liable for NS if he have enjoyed social-econ benefits?

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Postby joan.wallaby » Sun, 13 Jun 2010 10:45 am

MS, I've a qn here.

hope this would make it clearer for me.

Supposedly I have a son, 16. He has stayed in Singapore all these time and have never applied for a exit permit.

But he do not have Singapore Passport and have the blue IC [Singapore PR - I was from Malaysia] So he's a seond generation PR.
He is intending to complete his A Level. But I don't think it's right to hold him back when he has no intention of becoming a Singapore citizen, he said life here was too fast paced for him.

So would it be theoretically possible for him to renounce his citizenship here? And also, by doing so, would it have any serious repercussion?

If so, what step should be taken?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 13 Jun 2010 11:52 am

joan.wallaby wrote:All these is rather abstract to me o.o

MS, so to clarify, he is only liable for NS if he have enjoyed social-econ benefits?

If he went to school here or has an NRIC (blue or pink) then he has been deemed to have enjoyed the socio-economic benefits of Singapore.

joan.wallaby wrote:MS, I've a qn here.

hope this would make it clearer for me.

Supposedly I have a son, 16. He has stayed in Singapore all these time and have never applied for a exit permit.

But he do not have Singapore Passport and have the blue IC [Singapore PR - I was from Malaysia] So he's a seond generation PR.
He is intending to complete his A Level. But I don't think it's right to hold him back when he has no intention of becoming a Singapore citizen, he said life here was too fast paced for him.

So would it be theoretically possible for him to renounce his citizenship here?

He doesn't have citizenship here, only Permanent Residence.
And also, by doing so, would it have any serious repercussion?

Too late to renounce PR. Now must do NS as well or be barred from ever returning to Singapore.

If so, what step should be taken?

I am afraid, unless MS can do miracles, the best steps you can take are to start finding ways to convince your son that NS is a good thing for him. Assuming he wants to remain here or possibly work here in the future.

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Re: Renounce SG citizenship

Postby Mad Scientist » Sun, 13 Jun 2010 5:17 pm

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sun, 13 Jun 2010 5:45 pm

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Bluesamba2001
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Renouncation of singapore citizenship

Postby Bluesamba2001 » Sun, 13 Jun 2010 8:44 pm

Mad Scientist

Just to confirm...yes he is a Singapore citizen...it is also stated on his birth cert that he is a Singapore citizen by birth.

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Re: Renouncation of singapore citizenship

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 13 Jun 2010 9:24 pm

Bluesamba2001 wrote:Mad Scientist

Just to confirm...yes he is a Singapore citizen...it is also stated on his birth cert that he is a Singapore citizen by birth.


Bluesamba2001 & MS,

Bluesamba2001, you do have a problem. Unfortunately, it is one of your own doing and I have a strong feeling that there is nothing at all that can be done. I've been doing some research and it is possible to get citizenship for a child born in Singapore without either parent having citizenship! :o

Definitely a new one for me as well.

http://www.wwlegal.com/module-subjects- ... id-14.html

Acquisition

There are four ways of acquiring Singapore citizenship:

1. By birth
2. By registration
3. By descent
4. By naturalisation

Citizenship by birth

Every person born in Singapore whose father or mother is a Singapore citizen is automatically a citizen. However, this rule does not apply if at the time of birth:

1. his/her father (non-Singaporean citizen) was a member of the diplomatic corps of a foreign country; or
2. his/her father was an enemy alien and Singapore was under enemy occupation when the birth occurred.

The government can grant citizenship even if the applicant's parents are both non-Singaporean citizens.

Births have to be registered at Birth Registration Centres available at: -

* Registry of Births and Deaths at Citizen Services Centre at 3rd Floor of SIR Building;
* KK Women's & Children's Hospital;
* East Shore Hospital;
* Gleneagles Hospital;
* Mount Alvernia Hospital;
* Mount Elizabeth Hospital;
* National University Hospital;
* Singapore General Hospital; and
* Thomson Medical Centre.

If your child was born in hospitals or places not listed above, please register your child's birth at the Citizen Services Centre. Notification of Live Birth must be obtained from doctors/midwife/ambulance staff who delivered the baby if the baby is not born in hospitals.


So, with confirmation that the child is, in fact, a Singaporean, then the timing of the application for the deferment was critical. If the child is now 15, then the ruling, I believe, was still the letter requesting deferment at age 11, but even then, if the child was still holding a valid Singapore Passport, it would have been denied. I'm afraid there isn't going to be much than can be done in this case if the child's Singapore passport was still valid after the age of eleven.

sms

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Postby joan.wallaby » Sun, 13 Jun 2010 11:47 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:
Joan

Please read this link
http://www.ica.gov.sg/data/resources/do ... 080429.pdf

To clarify, Exit Permit is stop gap control measure for 2nd Gen SPR and Sger alike . The time line is at the age of 13.
The day he crosses over that age, it is a one way street. Very hard to negotiate and ditch NS. Very few cases ever got away with it.
My son is the very few that managed to maneuver this minefield but I was very well informed on the law itself.
I hate to say this, the fault lies with you. You wanted him to get the best education , M'sia is not an ideal place , hence SG is the better choice but you do not want to pay an arm and a leg if he is on student visa which will pay premium rate on school fees. Worse of all there is no benefits or subsidies if he is on student visa. Hence you apply SPR for him knowing that 2nd Gen PR must do NS.
You did not discount that your son might not want to serve NS and wanted to become a SG citizen as the going gets tough , the tough gets going.
The link shows very clearly that your son already enjoy that socio benefits.
If he relinquish his SPR after A level, he cannot return to SG even on social visit forever, do not talk about working here.
If he serve his NS duties ,at least , he can work here and gets the benefits in tax rebate etc as he is seen contributing to the national security of SG.
I cannot and do not perform miracle. If there is a slight glimmer of hope , I will definitely advise you.However on your case there is not much I can do as his card is stacked very much against him

Sorry :(


Hmmm... ok, thank you so much for your help =) I really appreciate the answer and your time that went to answering this. I will talk to him.

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Re: Renouncation of singapore citizenship

Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 14 Jun 2010 4:03 am

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 14 Jun 2010 6:28 am

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