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National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

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Mad Scientist
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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 14 May 2014 1:37 pm

snowlover wrote:Thank you very much, MS.

In my case, my oldest son has no US greencard, will keep SG IC. Is he considered as part of family? If yes, my youngest son will have to do NS also?

Yes on both questions

And if we renounced SG citizen, can will enter SG with US passport as normal US citizen for 90 days visa-free-visiting?

Yes, as long as you have followed the necessary protocol . For your children it all depends if their application defer pending renunciation at 21 is accepted which means there is NO NS liabilities upon approval

Thank you again.

Mad Scientist wrote:
4. At the same time FAMILY UNIT applies for Foreign citizenship the minute it is allowed to do so as the time frame to defer ends when child reaches 16.Hence you need to count backwards.

Does this answer all of your problems?
Last edited by Mad Scientist on Sat, 09 Aug 2014 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby snowlover » Thu, 15 May 2014 7:45 am

Thank you. But disappointed.

Mad Scientist wrote:
snowlover wrote:Thank you very much, MS.

In my case, my oldest son has no US greencard, will keep SG IC. Is he considered as part of family? If yes, my youngest son will have to do NS also?

Yes on both questions

And if we renounced SG citizen, can will enter SG with US passport as normal US citizen for 90 days visa-free-visiting?

Yes, as long as you have followed the necessary protocol . For your children it all depends if their application defer pending renunciation at 21 is accepted which means there is NO NS liabilities upon approval

Thank you again.

Mad Scientist wrote:
4. At the same time FAMILY UNIT applies for Foreign citizenship the minute it is allowed to do so as the time frame to defer ends when child reaches 16.Hence you need to count backwards.

Does this answer all of your problems?

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 17 May 2014 1:33 pm

There is nothing to be disappointed about
Both of you are Singaporeans , I believe.
Your spouse must be doing NS in his younger days hence he should have known the liabilities of skipping NS
Even if he did not do his NS, this NS thing started in 1972 in full swing.
Are you telling me all this while he is not aware of NS?
Opportunity was offered to work in the US of A and over time may lead you to the opportunity of being naturalised and so forth.
You must have jump without a second thought and without checking on the implications of NS with two boys borned here.
Almost 75% of the people I came across are in this group.
Once things start to turn for the worse, the feeling of disappointment, anger, frustration and unfairness comes into play
Blaming the SG Gahmen will do you not one bit good
NS is here to stay and it aint gonna change
Why oh why do you put yourself in this predicament knowing full well that it will gets smelly if you put the lid on the hole
It smells rotten and rightly so.
You are the master of your own destiny and as it pans out things is not as rosy as you expected it to be
Trying to wriggle out from this quagmire will be hard
Last edited by Mad Scientist on Sat, 09 Aug 2014 12:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby snowlover » Sun, 25 May 2014 9:38 am

Thank you very much for sorting out my thoughts.
Actually my 16 years old boy is emotionally ready for going back to do NS. He is trying to dig out why Singapore needs those people staying overseas to go back for NS. It is one of talking topics to his classmates. Could you talk some more about the necessities of NS for Singapore?
Thank you so much for your kind help.

Mad Scientist wrote:There is nothing to be disappointed about
Both of you are Singaporeans , I believe.
Your spouse must be doing NS in his younger days hence he should have known the liabilities of skipping NS
Even if he did not do his NS, this NS thing started in 1972 in full swing.
Are you telling me all this while he is not aware of NS?
Opportunity was offered to work in the US of A and over time may lead you to the opportunity of being naturalised and so forth.
You must have jump without a second thought and without checking on the implications of NS with two boys borned here.
Almost 75% of the people I came across are in this group.
Once things start to turn for the worse, the feeling of disappointment, anger, frustration and unfairness comes into play
Blaming the SG Gahmen will do you not one bit good
NS is here to stay and it aint gonna change
Why oh why do you put yourself in this predicament knowing full well that it will gets smelly if you put the lid on the hole
It smells rotten and rightly so.
You are the master of your own destiny and as it pans out things is not as rosy as you expected it to be
Trying to wriggle out from this quagmire will be hard

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Advice on NS deferment

Postby Meko188 » Sat, 28 Jun 2014 2:55 pm

Dear all, appreciate if anyone with experience can help, esp MS. my case is as such:
1. Son born overseas to Chinese dad, already has Chinese citizenship before I applied Singapore(bad move) citizenship at the time his dad may be working in Indo, so thought Singapore education better and closer to visit.
2. I left Singapore in 1999, son Never lived in Singapore, never used his Singapore ppt. No pink IC. Ppt expired in 2012 and not renewed. Never claim any bb bonus.
3. Obtained Au citizenship in 2013 when he was ard 11.5 years old.
4. I renounced my Singapore citizenship in May 13, approved Sep 13. Now applying to get CPF out.
5. In this case, should I bring him into Singapore before 13 and apply EP for 1yr 364 d? And go back Singapore before EP expire do it again twice before 18 if I have no spare 75k to put as bond?
6. Can we seek deferment to age 21 at 16 or 17 pending renunciation. If we seek now, I am afraid they will want a bond since high school here is 5 years.
7. Does he still need to serve NS if above not approved?
8. Can he enter Singapore with a different name on Au ppt without penalty? Or enter Singapore using his Chinese one that Singapore has record of for EP?

Thanks lots!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 28 Jun 2014 5:03 pm

I don't think you will have any problems at all, but he will have to notify and possibly post bond. I say possibly but considering he hasn't held a SG passport since the age of 11 or 12, no NRIC and has never been in Singapore as a Singapore Citizen, never schooled in Singapore, I think it will be just a matter of following the numbers, especially since neither parent is a Singapore citizen (this is the one that is usually the stickler but as you have already renounced, they have no reason to try to use that on him).

But you will need to wait for MS to pop his head in here to get the best step by step procedure. (he's not been in the best of health for the past year) So, hang in there and he will seen it probably shortly as he does monitor this particular forum.

sms

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Re: Advice on NS deferment

Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 07 Jul 2014 4:34 am

[Meko188]
Last edited by Mad Scientist on Sat, 09 Aug 2014 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Meko188 » Sat, 12 Jul 2014 10:59 am

Thanks so much MS and SMS for all your advice, will write to ICA about renouncing before 13. Was told he cannot until 21 when called up but try lor.

Take care MS and stay strong!

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Postby JSY » Wed, 20 Aug 2014 1:42 am

Hello, I think I need some advise...
I'm a Singaporean living in US since 1990, only returned twice, but still have a valid passport. Husband, from Hong Kong. Both of us are holding US greencard. 3 children, 2 boys and a girl, 15+and almost 13 for the boys. Children were all born in US, holding US passports.
3 years ago, when boys were 11 and 9, I applied for my children the Certificate of Singapore Citizenship (by Registration). I guess I had overlooked the NS obligations and thought that we were opening an option for the kids if they choose to attend education or establish in Singapore when they grow up. I guess I'd made a mistake.
I have not contact anyone since. I did not apply for any deferment for my son, did not apply for exit permit and did not pay the bond. Our address had changed since we received the kids' certificate of citizenship and I did not inform to have our address changed in any records in Singapore.
Kids do not have Singapore passports, ICs and have not visited Singapore before, except for the oldest who recently had a 2 hours transit at Changi Airport, using his US passport.
Please advise what options do I have in hand? Thanks much.

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Postby PNGMK » Wed, 20 Aug 2014 1:58 pm

JSY wrote:Hello, I think I need some advise...
I'm a Singaporean living in US since 1990, only returned twice, but still have a valid passport. Husband, from Hong Kong. Both of us are holding US greencard. 3 children, 2 boys and a girl, 15+and almost 13 for the boys. Children were all born in US, holding US passports.
3 years ago, when boys were 11 and 9, I applied for my children the Certificate of Singapore Citizenship (by Registration). I guess I had overlooked the NS obligations and thought that we were opening an option for the kids if they choose to attend education or establish in Singapore when they grow up. I guess I'd made a mistake.
I have not contact anyone since. I did not apply for any deferment for my son, did not apply for exit permit and did not pay the bond. Our address had changed since we received the kids' certificate of citizenship and I did not inform to have our address changed in any records in Singapore.
Kids do not have Singapore passports, ICs and have not visited Singapore before, except for the oldest who recently had a 2 hours transit at Changi Airport, using his US passport.
Please advise what options do I have in hand? Thanks much.


Your sons are so screwed. You need to unwind this mess as much as possible ASAP. Not updating ICA on your addresses isn't going to fool anyone. I think the older one is going to have an NS liability but you may be ok with the younger one. From what I can tell (I've been reading up recently on this) your sons are already in trouble for being out of Singapore without permission from CMPB. You should sort that out first. There was an earlier post a month ago where MS summed up what a person in a similar position had to do (i.e. apply for 1 year 364 days and then read on up MS posts about how to revoke SC). IF you can revoke cleanly their SC I would do that but I really don't know if it can be done without still having an NS liability - however as your sons have not 'benefited' from being in Singapore it may be possible.

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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby amosamos » Fri, 28 Nov 2014 2:58 pm

Hi Everyone!

I would like to seek some advice on whether i should proceed to apply for citizenship by descent for my newborn son. The dilemma is should i registered him as a Malaysian or Singaporean?

1. I am a Singaporean and my wife is Malaysian. We are both living in KL most of the time now.

2. Although, we were married in Singapore but our 1-month old baby boy was born in Malaysia. Therefore, our baby boy is Malaysian by default.

3. Our initial thoughts were to apply for him Singapore Citizenship by descent, so that he can have both Malaysia & Singapore passports.

4. It is a known fact that Malaysia public education system is really bad. Therefore, when he reached schooling age, we intend to send him back to SG for him to study in local Primary and Secondary school.

5. And when he is old enough (aged 21), he can decide if he wants to renounce Singapore and be a Malaysian; or be a Singaporean and do National Service!

6. However, after reading through 400+ posts in this topic, i realized that it might not be easy for him to renounce his Singaporean citizenship especially if he has enjoyed social-economic benefits such as healthcare or education.

7. On top of that, we might have to fork out S$75k to post bond to CMPB. If by 13, if CMPB decide not to issue him deferment from NS till 21 years of age, pending the renunciation of Singapore citizenship, then he will be truly screwed and have to serve NS.

8. Perhaps it might to a good idea to just let him be a Malaysian. He can always enter SG on a student visa and study in a local SG primary or secondary school. We have just to pay a bit more for school fees, which actually isn't that much more (Primary school: Local S$90, Asean $350).

Any advice from gurus here?

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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 28 Nov 2014 9:19 pm

amosamos wrote:Hi Everyone!

I would like to seek some advice on whether i should proceed to apply for citizenship by descent for my newborn son. The dilemma is should i registered him as a Malaysian or Singaporean?

1. I am a Singaporean and my wife is Malaysian. We are both living in KL most of the time now.

2. Although, we were married in Singapore but our 1-month old baby boy was born in Malaysia. Therefore, our baby boy is Malaysian by default.

3. Our initial thoughts were to apply for him Singapore Citizenship by descent, so that he can have both Malaysia & Singapore passports.

4. It is a known fact that Malaysia public education system is really bad. Therefore, when he reached schooling age, we intend to send him back to SG for him to study in local Primary and Secondary school.

5. And when he is old enough (aged 21), he can decide if he wants to renounce Singapore and be a Malaysian; or be a Singaporean and do National Service!

6. However, after reading through 400+ posts in this topic, i realized that it might not be easy for him to renounce his Singaporean citizenship especially if he has enjoyed social-economic benefits such as healthcare or education.

7. On top of that, we might have to fork out S$75k to post bond to CMPB. If by 13, if CMPB decide not to issue him deferment from NS till 21 years of age, pending the renunciation of Singapore citizenship, then he will be truly screwed and have to serve NS.

8. Perhaps it might to a good idea to just let him be a Malaysian. He can always enter SG on a student visa and study in a local SG primary or secondary school. We have just to pay a bit more for school fees, which actually isn't that much more (Primary school: Local S$90, Asean $350).

Any advice from gurus here?


With database technology Singapore has now, unless you give him SC and the obligation to do NS, his odds of getting a student visa are virtually nil as they will know that you didn't apply for SC by descent for the very reason of NS. Remember, he will be obliged to state his parents names & nationalities for the student visa application, therefore the jig is up if his father is an SC and didn't apply for SC for his son, but then wants to abuse the system by trying to give that same son Singapore schooling. Frankly, I think you should man up. The boy will need NS given what see in his father here on the board trying to find a way to scam the system.

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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby brightandbeautiful » Fri, 19 Dec 2014 10:42 am

Hello,
I have thoroughly read( I think!)all the threads for NS deferment.Thank you so much for providing such useful information that have immense positive impact on families. Thank you. I just need some assurance that I am doing the right things with regards to my son's NS deferment.

Scenario
My son was born in singapore in 2001 and my daughter in 2006 in Singapore.( went back in 2006 to deliever my daughter for family support)
We migrated to Australia in 2005 and got our Australian citizenship in 2008. We renounced our Singapore citizenship in 2009, sold the HDB flat, withdrew CPF and etc. We wrote to Singapore immgration saying that we wanted to renounce the kids' citizenship as well but got a reply saying that they can only do it at the age of 21.


Currently


My son turns 13 at the end of Dec 2014. After reading the threads this is what I am planning to do. Please tell me if I am missing something and if am doing it right.

1) Writing to CMPB and Renunciation unit asking for a deferment till 21.
attaching the following doc.
- parents' Australian passport, citizenship certificates and letter from ICA stating that our renunciation of Singapore citizenship as of 2009.
- Son's Australian passport and Australian citizenship.

2) Apply for exit permit for 1 year and 364 days on his birthday( this one I am not sure)

Thank you in advance for all the advice.

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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby PNGMK » Fri, 19 Dec 2014 12:03 pm

brightandbeautiful wrote:Hello,
I have thoroughly read( I think!)all the threads for NS deferment.Thank you so much for providing such useful information that have immense positive impact on families. Thank you. I just need some assurance that I am doing the right things with regards to my son's NS deferment.

Scenario
My son was born in singapore in 2001 and my daughter in 2006 in Singapore.( went back in 2006 to deliever my daughter for family support)
We migrated to Australia in 2005 and got our Australian citizenship in 2008. We renounced our Singapore citizenship in 2009, sold the HDB flat, withdrew CPF and etc. We wrote to Singapore immgration saying that we wanted to renounce the kids' citizenship as well but got a reply saying that they can only do it at the age of 21.


Currently


My son turns 13 at the end of Dec 2014. After reading the threads this is what I am planning to do. Please tell me if I am missing something and if am doing it right.

1) Writing to CMPB and Renunciation unit asking for a deferment till 21.
attaching the following doc.
- parents' Australian passport, citizenship certificates and letter from ICA stating that our renunciation of Singapore citizenship as of 2009.
- Son's Australian passport and Australian citizenship.

2) Apply for exit permit for 1 year and 364 days on his birthday( this one I am not sure)

Thank you in advance for all the advice.


That looks good - don't forget;

1. Never renew son's Singapore PP (I assume you have not done so if he has an Australian PP).
2. Never apply for NRIC for son.

I think your on the right mark there applying for the exit permit for 1 year and 364 days (seems to be the advice I remember MS giving before) - the idea is to avoid falling foul of regulations and laws that will give cause for Singapore CMB to say "there are outstanding issues preventing your son from renouncing Singapore citizenship".
I have gay, black, Asian friends and then JR8.

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Re: National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Postby brightandbeautiful » Fri, 19 Dec 2014 3:54 pm

Hi PNGMK,
Thanks for the prompt reply. You are right, thanks for the reminder, never renewed singapore passport or applied for NRIC. Yes have been reading threads by MS and SMS.

I am confused about something else. I spoke to a friend, who managed to get deferment for her son till 21, and she said she didn't apply for exit permit at all. But recieved a letter from CMPB stating that the deferment is ok.

But also undertand what you said: "the idea is to avoid falling foul of regulations and laws that will give cause for Singapore CMB to say "there are outstanding issues preventing your son from renouncing Singapore citizenship"

Ok now what do I do? Also if I do apply for exit permit for 1 year and 364 days, what happens after that? Do I keep applying for exit permit till 21?

Thank you so much for replying. It really means alot.


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