Singapore Expats Forum

National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

Discuss about the latest news & interesting topics, real life experience or other out of topic discussions with locals & expatriates in Singapore.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34536
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 24 Mar 2014 12:25 pm

Thank you for registering and giving us the chance to know of another who has benefited from our rants here. It is much appreciated and will go some way to giving additional credence to what we say here. MS has been a huge asset to us here over the years. We are blessed to have him as one of our regulars here.

Cheers,
SMS

hotchocolate
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed, 02 Apr 2014

Postby hotchocolate » Wed, 02 Apr 2014 9:37 am

Hi to all

I am a newbie here and after reading all the threads, I would like to present our situation here for MS and the rest...thanks in advance for your help.

2 boys - one aged 14 (has EP), another is 12 (turning 13 soon).

Both were NOT born in Sing but does not have dual citizenship because country of birth does not give citizen based on that. So they are S'poreans now.

Both have never lived in Sing, or studied there though have visited occasionally (once every 3 years)....ie have PP, though we do not intend to renew.

we did visit Singapore last year to see grandp.

Family got green card in 2012, and plan to get US citizenship in 2017.

Eldest will get US citizenship just before he turns 18.

We intend to immigrate as a family then.

Dad and Mom - S'poreans at the moment. Been out of c'try since 1997. Dad (me) has been discharged from reservist.


Question...

1. If we do all the steps (and cmpb has given us the Tan email address), will eldest not getting his citizenship by 16.5 be an issue?

2. If application for deferment pending renunciation is not successful, what will happen when he is 16.5? We have hardly any money left in sing, no hdb, but CPF still there because we have not renounced yet. Basically, no money to post bond or whatever?

3. 2nd son will get US Citizenship when he is 16 (thereabouts). How does this affect our actions?

3.Will there be a situation where the oldest may be not approved but the younger one is approved for deferment pending renunciation?

4. in addition to cmpb (re application for def pending renounciation), do we have to do that with ICA (confused about this part?).




Other relevant info

1. no IC
2. Have pp - but do not intend to renew.
3. Kids not born in Sing, but Sgers.

Thanks in advance

User avatar
Mad Scientist
Director
Director
Posts: 3448
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009
Location: TIMBUKTU

Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 03 Apr 2014 1:06 am

[quote]
Last edited by Mad Scientist on Sun, 10 Aug 2014 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

hotchocolate
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed, 02 Apr 2014

Postby hotchocolate » Thu, 03 Apr 2014 11:43 am

Dad and Mom - S'poreans at the moment. Been out of c'try since 1997. Dad (me) has been discharged from reservist.

before you even proceed on the under mentioned, you need to get US citizenship and at the same time once you attained it, you need to renounce yourself and wife SG citizenship first.


Question...

1. If we do all the steps (and cmpb has given us the Tan email address), will eldest not getting his citizenship by 16.5 be an issue?

Once you did the above instruction, only then send a snail mail to CMPB stating your intention that wanted to renounce your son SG citizenship once he turns 21 and currently you are in the processed on applying US citizenship for him . Explain in details the process which will take longer than the cut off date of 16.5. It will be a touch and go but if you supply CMPB the green card and all details plus you a no longer SG citizen then the chance for your eldest is 70/30

2. If application for deferment pending renunciation is not successful, what will happen when he is 16.5? We have hardly any money left in sing, no hdb, but CPF still there because we have not renounced yet. Basically, no money to post bond or whatever?

Two sureties in lieu of bond money. One is yourself and the other a living relative in SG. Both of you will be taken into account if your son do a runner


3. 2nd son will get US Citizenship when he is 16 (thereabouts). How does this affect our actions?
Second son goes scot free if you do all the bits above. But he cannot gain any employment in SG. Social visit is allowed only. That goes for the whole family

3.Will there be a situation where the oldest may be not approved but the younger one is approved for deferment pending renunciation?

Not sure as I am no longer with them but back then NO.

4. in addition to cmpb (re application for def pending renounciation), do we have to do that with ICA (confused about this part?).

Renounciation part is to ICA. Exit Permit is to CMPB plus the deferment.

You need to submit all mitigating factors and get it notorise. The first step is you have to renounce SG citizenship for both of you. Even if your eldest US citizenship got it later and CMPB does not approve deferment. Do the NS but then renounce SG citizenship. In this route chance to gain employment is there. Rules not written but the norm is yes






Thanks MS for your reply.

Just want to make sure I understand correctly the steps I should take.


2014 - continue to extend EP for eldest son. Apply EP for 2nd son (turning 13 soon).

2015/16 - when eldest son is 16.5 years, still apply EP, but have to post surety.

2017 - whole family obtain US citizenship about 3 months before eldest son turns 18. Dad and mom renounce. Then send snail mail to CMPB for both sons stating intention to renouncement at 21 and for deferment of NS until 21. According to you, chances for eldest son is 70/30, 2nd one should be ok.

Am I correct on this?


Question 1: (playing devils advocate): if we tell cmpb intention to renounce now, I would assume chances of approval are very low because parents are are US citizens yet. If not approved, can we keep appealing until we get the US citizenship? And if we take this route, can we avoid putting up bond/surety? (cos we are appealing)...

Question 2: Just to be sure: I would assume that we should NOT ever renew kids passport?

User avatar
Mad Scientist
Director
Director
Posts: 3448
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009
Location: TIMBUKTU

Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 04 Apr 2014 1:07 am

(quote)
Last edited by Mad Scientist on Sun, 10 Aug 2014 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

star8481
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed, 16 Apr 2014

Seek Advice from Mad Scientist & sundaymorningstaple

Postby star8481 » Wed, 16 Apr 2014 6:41 am

Please pardon me ... I am new member & trying to post a message in this thread... Not sure if I am doing it correctly... just clicked "Reply" button.



Hello Mad Scientist & sundaymorningstaple,

i have read through first 11 pages of this thread and both of you are doing great service to genuinely naive people who are stuck in the muck.

Request your inputs in my case -

Both me and my spouse are blue IC Singapore PR and we made a mistake of taking PR for our son as well. Although son does NOT hold blue IC but just a stamp in passport.

We left SG when our son was 6 years old and moved to USA on job. We recently received Green Card here in USA. Now our son is turned 13 just 2 months ago.

Now we are scratching our head what to do - since we do not intend to return back to SG but at the same time do not wish to impact our son's chances of returning back to SG either job or as tourist. And also get our hard earned money maintained in CPF

So wondering what should be the correct way to proceed ??

Option 1) Surrender the PR for all 3 of us right away while in USA ( not sure whether they will create problem because we did not apply EP because our son turned 13 2 months ago )
or
Option 2) Apply for EP as part of procedure first ( because he is 13 years & 2 months ) & then surrender the PR after that. ( not sure if PR surrender will get impacted in any way because we received EP earlier).

Any other step ??

Would really be thankful for your knowledge based inputs.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34536
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 16 Apr 2014 7:01 am

star8481, I'll leave the fine tuning to MS as he is the real guru (I relinquished that position when MS joined us as his insight comes from within the system whereas mine was a system of learning but well in advance and the collecting of anecdotal evidence.

Having said that, I think you are still in a doable position but you will need to follow the steps with regard to notifying Mindef/CMPB of your intentions asap and then proceed with the giving up of your PR here as well (and divesting yourselves of your HDB (if you own one) and withdrawing your CPF so as to indicate you are serious. Additionally, proof of recent US PR acquisition will help considering the timeline required for obtaining same in the US. Filing for the Exit permit and requisite bond/sureties will probably be needed.

Wait for MS to weigh in as he will guide you step by step.

sms

star8481
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed, 16 Apr 2014

Postby star8481 » Thu, 17 Apr 2014 5:52 am

Thank you for the encouraging words sundaymorningstaple,

I am really unclear on following points -

1) If someone successfully manages to get "Deferment for NS" through legal boundaries .... does that mean the child can go back to Singapore for employment or tourism without any issues in future ??

or does it mean even if "Deferement of NS" is granted the child gets kind blacklisted for life.

2) a) If all of us (child, spouse & me ) surrender the PR by following the process laid out by SIR. then are we still legally bound to inform MINDEF and/or CMPB about inability to do NS. ....Just wish to follow the rules rather than being ignorant.

b) In such a case when we surrender the PR through proper process , will the child still be kind of "blacklisted" for life ... that is really unfortunate for no fault of theirs.

3) In my case what should be the step by step process - should I apply for Exit Permit first or that is not even necessary because we are planning to surrender the PR anyway.... so should we just proceed to surrender the PR.

Inputs from you, Mad Scientist and other experts on the forum would be a great help.

Thanks.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34536
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 17 Apr 2014 7:04 am

star8481 wrote:Thank you for the encouraging words sundaymorningstaple,

I am really unclear on following points -

1) If someone successfully manages to get "Deferment for NS" through legal boundaries .... does that mean the child can go back to Singapore for employment or tourism without any issues in future ??

Correct. Providing all protocols are met and the child is subsequently otherwise qualified for employment or tourism

or does it mean even if "Deferement of NS" is granted the child gets kind blacklisted for life.

Not at all, however, if he becomes a runner and doesn't do it by the numbers, then he "could" be picked up on entry to the country later in life. Not sure if that's a gamble I'd be willing to take if I didn't follow the rules to get out of NS.

2) a) If all of us (child, spouse & me ) surrender the PR by following the process laid out by SIR. then are we still legally bound to inform MINDEF and/or CMPB about inability to do NS. ....Just wish to follow the rules rather than being ignorant.

He will still be bound to inform MINDEF accordingly until such time as he obligation is spent or has been informed by MINDEF that he is no longer under any obligation to do NS. But you have to wait until such time as you get that notification in writing.

b) In such a case when we surrender the PR through proper process , will the child still be kind of "blacklisted" for life ... that is really unfortunate for no fault of theirs.

If you have read enough of our threads here, you will understand that is the big thing we preach here. Most kids have their problems because of the parents who try to decide for the kids after the fact instead of thinking things through before applying for PR and the future obligations that is incurs.

3) In my case what should be the step by step process - should I apply for Exit Permit first or that is not even necessary because we are planning to surrender the PR anyway.... so should we just proceed to surrender the PR.

I'll have to leave it to MS to give you the step by step process, but I think I would inform MINDEF as to your intentions and to apply for an exit permit (for 1 year and 364 days). That should see you clear to having to post a surety or bond initially.

Inputs from you, Mad Scientist and other experts on the forum would be a great help.

Thanks.

star8481
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed, 16 Apr 2014

Postby star8481 » Thu, 17 Apr 2014 7:38 am

Thanks sundaymorningstaple,

Any suggestion to bring my question to MS's attention so that he can share his inputs. Is there a way whereby I can send an email to him

The question I have is -

After I apply and get EP approved for 1yr 364 days, will it prevent us from surrendering the PR say 6 months down the line.

And if our intention is to surrender the PR anyway then why even bother to apply EP unless we are breaking any laws by not applying EP since he has turned 13. If surrender of PR is allowed without the need to apply EP then hopefully we may not even need to follow through the steps of bond surity etc. ....

Totally unsure on how to proceed.

Truly appreciate noble work done by you and MS to guide ignorant and confused folks.

User avatar
Mad Scientist
Director
Director
Posts: 3448
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009
Location: TIMBUKTU

Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 17 Apr 2014 2:00 pm

(quote)
Last edited by Mad Scientist on Sun, 10 Aug 2014 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

star8481
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed, 16 Apr 2014

Postby star8481 » Fri, 25 Apr 2014 8:16 am

Thanks MS, SMS

For the detailed reply and comments.

I went on internet to apply for "Exit Permit" but first thing it asks is "NRIC #" & "Birth Date". These are mandatory fields to proceed on the web site.

When we left Singapore our son was 6 years old so he was not issued any IC. There is only stamp in his passport.

So wondering how do we proceed to apply for Exit Permit.

Any idea.

Your guidance is much appreciated.

Thanks.

User avatar
Mad Scientist
Director
Director
Posts: 3448
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009
Location: TIMBUKTU

Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 25 Apr 2014 1:40 pm

Go for FIN/BC number and you should know your son DOB
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

snowlover
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed, 23 Apr 2014

NS discussion

Postby snowlover » Mon, 05 May 2014 11:06 am

Mad Scientist,
I want to know if the boy does not go back to serve NS, after he turned 21 years old, he will denounce Singapore citizenship. What is the consequence? Do you have example? Thank you.
SL

User avatar
Mad Scientist
Director
Director
Posts: 3448
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009
Location: TIMBUKTU

Re: NS discussion

Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 06 May 2014 5:14 pm

[quote]
Last edited by Mad Scientist on Sun, 10 Aug 2014 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests