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National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

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Postby PNGMK » Wed, 06 Nov 2013 2:38 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Same reason so many of the PRs here haven't (like me for instance). Too many reasons, even for long stayer like us! :-|


But we didn't 'migrate' here as much as follow the work here.... and I don't think either of us consider Singapore to be our permanent home for the rest of our lives.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 06 Nov 2013 3:03 pm

True. Still don't, but in my case the option, thanks to Obamy, is starting to look more attractive. :lol:

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Postby smoko » Thu, 07 Nov 2013 2:07 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:He's the one in trouble, not the parents. However, any relatives still in Singapore might get hassled by Mindef regularly (hope their tickers are in good shape). Additionally, it a good possibility that he could be picked up in the airport if he ever has to do a stop over in Singapore due to flight malfunction, for instance. The parents could possibly have some problems if they still own property here or still have their CPF accounts intact here.

Without doing NS or having followed the proper protocol to avoid NS while waiting till his 21st Birthday, he's up the creek without the proverbial paddle. He will never be allowed to renounce until such time as he's sorted himself with Mindef. Therefore he will never be able to step foot in Singapore again as he will be picked up and jailed and fined and depending on his age, still made to do NS after his release. If too old, then bigger fine & longer jail term. Only need to have a problem in an aircraft and forced to land at Changi for the jig to be up.

The fact the parents are STILL Singaporean citizens shows the intent and eliminates any chance of convincing Mindef. My advice? Tell the kid to Cowboy Up and be a man.


That's what everyone's been telling the kid but he doesn't see the logic of serving military service and then renounce the citizenship afterwards. I don't think Singapore feature very much in his plans. I've only ever hear him talk about going to Australia, Europe, USA.

I'm more concerned about the parents and trying to find out more information for them.

What kind of punitive actions can the parents expect from Mindef?

Would they demand a bond from the parents? When they left Singapore, their son was 10.5 years old, so didn't need exit permit. They didn't apply at 13 because they have the perception that it is only if you want to leave Singapore after 13 that you need to apply. Not if you are already overseas.

Would the parents be arrested when they go visit Singapore?

I heard they still left their properties and cpf intact in Singapore. I suppose it is difficult emotionally for people in their 50s to let go of their citizenship unlike teenagers.

Has any defaulter been extradited back to Singapore from overseas?

Is it too late if the parents renounce Singapore citizenship at this stage ie the son is already 17 yrs old.

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Postby LJA » Wed, 08 Jan 2014 9:02 am

Petales Soufflez! wrote:As I have posted in an earlier thread, I have applied, for my boy the minute he turned 13, for deferment from NS with intention to renounce SG citizenship at the age of 21 and it has kindly been accepted. An exit permit has been posted to me with no bond requested. I have moved to another country since and my son has changed his foreign passport and added a surname on it - but CMPB said not to worry and no need to send them new info (except new address). That is to say that I disagree with some that they are out there trying to collect our foreign details etc from us.

They have also never tried to obtain my boy's name etc when I was soliciting information via email from their office. The information is only required when you send in your application. As long as you follow the general guidelines, things will be fine. And of course like many said, best no IC, passport, public school and hospitals before the age of 9. My boy has never had a SG IC, passport etc. If you ticked any of the boxes even if you say lived overseas with no intention of coming back and yet kept a SG passport for the child - then it is a mistake that you will have to assume. Can't have butter and money for the butter as we would say in French.

I do not understand this bit though about parents having to renounce their SG citizenship to improve chances for the son's deferment from NS being approved. I told CMPB that I have no intention of renouncing my own SG citizenship as I plan to return home myself one day. Son grows up and will have his own life, what has that got to do with me? I am invited to overseas Singaporean events whether in Europe or in China and have always turned up with my entirely foreign family and they have always welcomed us with open arms. I have no doubt though that boy will not be able to work in Singapore after renouncing Singapore citizenship in the future, but we know about the gahmen's occasional pettiness and long memory. See it from their point of view, you chose to go somewhere else, you must think it's better elsewhere. You normally wouldn't take back a cheating spouse either, he has to wash his clothes in his new home. I only knock my head when I tell myself that I could have spared my boy this if I hadn't gotten him Singapore citizenship in the first place - but I had good intentions then and hadn't thought about NS before. Besides, he is half Singaporean and in principle I had wanted it reflected in his documents.

If anyone has concrete information about SG changing its laws and allowing dual citizenship say after boy has performed NS in the coming years, please inform me. My son is actually quite keen to do his NS if he can keep both his SG and French citizenships. I am the one choosing his citizenships for him at the moment fearing that he will not survive in SG not having lived and studied in the country. But he feels both French and Singaporean so we hope that this could be reflected in his citizenship documents.


Hi Petales et al,

Thank you all for the info! I had just applied for deferment till 21 for my 13 year old son (and he got his EP with no bond too), no tick on the above conditions but both my husband and I are holding green cards with SGC. I'm very worry, but did see some light when Petales still holding his SGC. I was told to wait till MINDEF's decision coming up in a few weeks. Question to Petales, do you have the info on the person who reviewed your case? Is this person from CMPB or MINDEF? Does anyone have any update on a similar case? And your EP is more than 2 years?

Appreciate all for your time and effort for sharing all these information!

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ns exit permit

Postby liz31 » Fri, 21 Feb 2014 3:55 pm

Hi everyone,

I'm new in this forum. Just need some advice on my son's exit permit. He will be 13 this October and he will be already in Sweden this August as I have migrated in March 2013 due to my husband work. My son will follow on soon. I have a residence permit till 2018 and after that I might be able to get citizenship as I don't intend to keep Singapore citizenship.
Now I wonder will I have to put bond on my son as I could not afford the bond. I am a housewife now and its only my husband who is working. I have remarried since 2012. My son's biological dad is nowhere to be found. I can't expect my husband now to come up with the bond. He is not earning much as a Teacher. So what can I do to avoid bond as I see that we are not returning to Singapore.

Regards Liz

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 21 Feb 2014 8:40 pm

Are you a naturalized Singapore Citizen or a Born in Singapore Citizen. Basically, what I am asking is do you have close relatives in Singapore? If so, you might approach them and see if they will act as surety for the Bond. This is one way to do it.

There is some more info in this forum on bonds/sureties but you might have to search for a while.

Here is one to start with..

sutra476288.html&highlight=bond+surety#476288

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Postby liz31 » Fri, 21 Feb 2014 9:19 pm

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. I am born in Singapore so do my son. We have relatives but I doubt that they will act as sureties . At the point of exit permit,do i have to provide my son's school documents and I understand to avoid the bond sum I can only apply less than 2 years?
If I go by applying permit for 1 1/2 years each time is it possible? When he reach the age 16.5 years what will happen? As he will be 13 on October and I have to wait for 4 more years for citizenship. During he point of time that he reaches 16.5 yrs can he requestfor deferment to renounce citizenship?

Manÿ thanks Again..

liz

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sun, 23 Feb 2014 1:16 pm

liz31 wrote:Hi,

Thanks for the reply. I am born in Singapore so do my son. We have relatives but I doubt that they will act as sureties .

If your son has left for overseas before the age of 13 , you do not need to do this first.
You need to info MOE about his whereabouts and reason thru his former school or thru MOE website as it is a crime for not allowing your child to have formal education in Singapore i.e which means the child must be in recognised school system in SG

At the point of exit permit,do i have to provide my son's school documents

No, if you leave before 13 . In fact the only that is required if need be will be his Exit Permit number once he turns 13

and I understand to avoid the bond sum I can only apply less than 2 years?

Yes, correct

If I go by applying permit for 1 1/2 years each time is it possible?

Yes, correct , In fact you can apply One Year and 364 days.

When he reach the age 16.5 years what will happen?

Once you received an EP when he turns 13 which you must apply within 3 months of his birthday, then proceed with communicating with ICA and CMPB with your intention to renounce his SG citizenship before he turns 16. I have posted these steps in many of my replies to posters. Read up and come back to me if you do not understand

As he will be 13 on October and I have to wait for 4 more years for citizenship. During he point of time that he reaches 16.5 yrs can he requestfor deferment to renounce citizenship?

as per above. answer

Manÿ thanks Again..

liz
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Postby liz31 » Sun, 23 Feb 2014 5:23 pm

Hi Mad Scientist,

I got it now. Thanks for the information. Have a pleasant Sunday! :D

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Postby finding_scotty » Tue, 04 Mar 2014 6:53 am

I'd be grateful for your help with my family situation:

My brother was born in Singapore in 1977, Singaporean Mum, British Dad. He left Singapore for the UK when he was 2 years old under a Singaporean passport (never renewed).

He has lived in the UK his entire life, visiting Singapore in 1991 under my Fathers British passport and, being born in '77, had British citizenship from birth through our Father (the rules for this changed for births from 1983 onwards).

We attempted to renounce his Singapore citizenship when he was 16 but were told we could only do so when he was 21. At age 23 (parents lost track of time) he applied for renunciation which was granted with no issues and as a result we have 2 documents stating so (issued by Singapore High Commission, Consular Section, London) logged on the Registrar of Citizens, Singapore.

My brother never had an IC card issued and the only benefit he has had was a passport as a baby which has never been renewed. As far as I'm aware no EP was ever requested or applied for.

We are due to go 'home' to Singapore in just under 3 weeks. Should we be worried with regards to NS? It has never been brought up as an issue, even during renunciation, and we never received any letters reminding him of his obligations or demanding his return.

We are worried of course as my brother also suffers from mild learning difficulties and therefore any kind of 'arrested at airport' drama is even more alarming.

MS, I'd really appreciate your input?

Thanks

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 04 Mar 2014 5:31 pm

finding_scotty wrote: At age 23 (parents lost track of time) he applied for renunciation which was granted with no issues and as a result we have 2 documents stating so (issued by Singapore High Commission, Consular Section, London) logged on the Registrar of Citizens, Singapore.

Thanks


Once your renunciation is accepted, you will received a letter albeit a statement which will states something along this line
"We have received your application for renunciation dated ........."
"We have accepted your application"

This comes from ICA. This is enough proof that he is no longer a Sger
ICA proud as a peacock they are which actually translates the Gahmen high moral ground BS will never write "you are no longer a Singapore Citizen"
Just to have a last go at the applicant for ditiching the SG citizenship which will make the application wondering am I a Sger or not, just to spice things up.
I had a long talk with the officer who drafted this template and I was basically told to back off !! How nasty can the Gahmen be to stoop so low

Rest assured your brother is safe from the minefield. If you are still unsure bring that renunciation acceptance letter handy when entering SG. Throw it on the face of ICA officer at border control if they asked.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby finding_scotty » Wed, 05 Mar 2014 2:03 am

First off, MS - thanks for replying so quickly and also for all your input on this forum, I had a good read from top to tail last night and you've performed a great service for many people. Thanks.

With regards to my brother, we have family in Singapore who are going to play doubley safe and check in with MINDEF and ensure he's not on some kind of NS list - good move or bad move?

If you don't mind me asking, what's your profession and hour do you know so much?

Thanks again.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 05 Mar 2014 12:46 pm

No , go to ICA , CAB and confirm status using SG BC.

And NO to other request
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Postby finding_scotty » Thu, 06 Mar 2014 1:20 am

No worries.

Turns out my family went by MINDEF who confirmed that my brother is not on any list and is clear to visit but must bring the renunciation letter just in case of any issues. Good news - we're only going to visit family after the recent passing of our Father and it would've been heart breaking not to have been able to.

Thanks for your help.

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Postby OzBum » Mon, 24 Mar 2014 8:58 am

Just created a new account here to say a GIANT THANK YOU to Mad Scientist and many others here. Your advice has got our son his deferment and you cannot imagine how happy we are as a family!!!

So onto our story. We migrated as PRs to Australia when our son was eight. We renewed his passport (BIG mistake!) when he was 11 and dutifully applied for exit permits every year when he was 13. At that time, I had the false impression that as long as my son did not take his pink IC, he will naturally be excused from army when he turns 16.

When he was 15, I decided to call up CMPB and they advised I should submit the deferment application now for consideration which I did. I remember scanning every page of his passports, filling the forms and then submitting via email. Weeks later, we received a rejection letter from them. We were devastated as we knew the consequences. We spoke to our son and he did not want to go back. All his friends and life he knew are here in Australia. Singapore to him was just to see his grandparents. So I called up CMPB but they refused to tell me why his application was rejected. I asked if I can submit an appeal and they said I can try but stop short of telling me exactly what to do. That is when I jumped online , found this amazing forum and realised all the stupid, stupid mistakes I made.

During that time, I was planning to renounce just my citizenship until I read Mad Scientist's comment that it has to be the whole family. So I spoke to my wife and thankfully she agreed to renounce as well. We then applied for Australian citizenship and got it. Next, we submitted our renunciation and at the same time, scanned those details along with an appeal letter to Mindef. While waiting, we got our renunciation approved and I forwarded that approval to Mindef. We finally got a letter from them after several months stating they had looked into our appeal and decided to grant our son his deferment with no bonds requested!!!

Once again, thank you from the bottom of my heart. It has been an emotional roller coastal ride with prayers, hopes, doubts, fears all mix into it and we are just so thankful it turned out well. Last but not least, I want to say a ZILLION thank you's to my wife. I knew it was an extremely difficult decision for her to renounce but for the love of our son, she did it.

I hope our story will give encouragement to others in similar situation. Warmest regards to all.


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