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National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

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Magtan66
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Postby Magtan66 » Wed, 06 Mar 2013 7:38 pm

Dear all,

I wish I read this forum years ago! I am really in a fix and need help!

I am Singaporean and hubby is from HK. My son was born in Singapore but we left since he was 8 months old. Unfortunately, we dutifully applied for EP since he was 13.5years old and posted bond at Mindef's requirement when he was 16.5years old.

My son now has a HK passport. He wishes to renounce his SC at 21 and is applying for NS deferment till 21, but was rejected. CMPB refused to tell us what criteria he failed to meet. Can anyone tell me?

We are trying to appeal but don't know how since we don't know why he didn't qualify.

HELP!!!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 06 Mar 2013 9:11 pm

You son is screwed. He will have to do NS or be listed as a deserter. Unless MS knows a way to perform a miracle. The following statement in blue is what criteria wasn't timely fulfilled.

A letter notifying MINDEF of you son's intention to renounce had to be filed no later than his 11 birthday. Additionally, his passport, if received before the age of 11, should not have been renewed. In fact, you gave every sign that you son WOULD be doing NS by dutifully filing for the EP. It is now way to late to waive his obligation to do the NS. I'd say he is now between a rock & a hard place as he will never be able to return to Singapore, without being picked up and he will be in violation of Singapore law after he passes the age of 21 and holding dual citizenship without doing his NS.

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Postby Magtan66 » Thu, 07 Mar 2013 9:23 am

We have also posted bond at age 16.5, so if he doesn't get his deferment, there is no choice he will have to serve NS. We will not let him become a deserter.

Point is, we have gone through MINDEF websites in the past but not been able to find those useful information I get here (I discovered this site too late!). And we had consulted the Singapore Consulate in HK before he turned 13 and they told us there is no choice and he needs to get EP, but he can request for deferment later. At age 16.5 we asked CMPB and they said there is no way. In fact, it was a kind officer at CMPB who had a slip of tongue that pointed us to the avenue of seeking deferment pending renunciation of SC at 21.

We are very late in the game, we have very slim chances, but thanks to this forum, we get a glimpse into what SHOULD have been done. CMPB just refused to let us know what criteria he didn't meet!

Now any help to increase our chances would be god-sent!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 07 Mar 2013 10:25 am

You will have to wait for Mad Scientist to weigh in on this one. He has more knowledge in this area than all the rest of us put together. The reason you have not be able to find the information is deliberate on the gahment's part. They don't WANT to make it easy to escape from doing NS. It's all out there but it took us a lot of years here to assemble all the data in a single location/pathway.

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Postby Magtan66 » Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:40 pm

Many thanks! I can see so much efforts' been put into this. And so beneficial for others who come along. Wish I had the opportunity ...

Dearest Mad Scientist, if you could spare a moment, please, please help me out here. Thanks!

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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 07 Mar 2013 5:11 pm

Magtan66 wrote:Dear all,

I wish I read this forum years ago! I am really in a fix and need help!

I am Singaporean and hubby is from HK. My son was born in Singapore but we left since he was 8 months old. Unfortunately, we dutifully applied for EP since he was 13.5years old and posted bond at Mindef's requirement when he was 16.5years old.

My son now has a HK passport. He wishes to renounce his SC at 21 and is applying for NS deferment till 21, but was rejected. CMPB refused to tell us what criteria he failed to meet. Can anyone tell me?

We are trying to appeal but don't know how since we don't know why he didn't qualify.

Ok sorry late to come to the party. Busy lah, too many goreng pisang here and no epok epok.

Ok let me decipher for you and correct me if I am wrong

1. You applied for EP at 13.5 since at the turn of 13 once he left Singapore for more than 3 months it is obligatory for him to get EP in order to stay out of Singapore. In that EP , you must have ticked overseas study rather than PR which is a NO NO.
2. Why did you not apply your son HKG PP as he is allowed for dual citizenship before the age of 21 prior to 13 years of age.
3. Unknowingly or otherwise you pose the bond since you applied EP for more than 2 years at one go which is the SOP . If you applied EP for only One year and 364 days no bond will come to play.
4. That bond does not mean you have to serve NS but it serves as a security to stay overseas for a longer period than 2 years
5. However once he passed 16 than NS obligation will kick in.
6. You cannot do a runner since S$75K has already been posted
7. I am in the opinion that you can send a letter to ICA and Mindef will all the docs stating that your family has become a HKG citizen and has no intention of be a resident of Singapore and the intention to renounce your son SG citizenship.
8. If you are still holding SG citizenship than your chance of getting your son out of NS is slim. It has to be a concerted effort on the whole family to severe all ties in SG. Only this way will make your application serious enough for consideration.
9. I can give your other means but I am mindful that you have a BG bond with Mindef which works against you hence I am not prepared to share these methods
10. To state intention to renounce at the age of 11 to 13 , the child must be holding another foreign PP in order to get deferment pending renunciation at 21

HELP!!!
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Renouncing Singapore citizenship for <5 year olds

Postby Holler » Tue, 02 Apr 2013 8:27 pm

Hi there, I just came across this thread and the many helpful cases for well-meaning parents like myself who made the mistake for applying for a Singaporean citizenship for the kids at birth because of sentimental ties.

My husband and I have been living in UK for over a decade now. Both our children (daughter aged 10 and son aged 3) are born in UK and hold dual Singapore-British citizenship. For my son, we made the second mistake of receiving the Baby Bonus even though he has never lived in Singapore. I tried endless to return the Baby Bonus but MSF insisted there is no law to allow that. Ludicrous they should force us to receive state benefits against our will.

My question for all the knowledgeable people on these forum is this. Is there a chance that we can renounce my son's Singapore citizenship before he turns 5? What's best course of action for doing so? Return the citizenship certificate and passport?

Thanks. Btw, what's happened to the kids mentioned in some of older posts? Did they get their deferment and renounciation eventually?

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Postby ccsaus » Wed, 03 Apr 2013 8:34 am

Mad Scientist wrote:
ccsaus wrote:Dear MS,

Much appreciated for the pointers.

I do appreciate your comment in red. In reality, my whole family love Singapore. In this circumstance, I just follow an ordinary mom's heart - to give my son an opportunity to make his own decision when he reaches 18.

Thanks again for all the valuable information in this forum.

Regards,


No worries , sometimes harsh reality is hard to bear. Just make sure if you decide to do this, thick and thin stick it like glue. The repercussion will only take effect later in life when job opportunities arises for him to take up employment in SG This may hindered his progress. What I can do is to provide informed decisions for you to make. There is no right or wrong as every man is to their own destiny based on the choices they make today. Just be prepared even if you do follow the steps by Kraikk to the T, the decision to allow your son to renounce at the age of 21 is at the hands of Mindef , CMPB and ICA. One can only second guess their next move. Having said that , as I have come across numerous cases , these steps should be 99% spot on. The 1% will be you are a naturalised SGer which may or may not be a factor to deny your son renounciation. Gahmen can be and most of the time very vindictive. Just be aware of this. I cannot be held responsible for your demise if this occurs



Dear MS,
It has been a year and a half, just an update of my case from page 8...now, hubby, son and I all OZ citizen with OZ PP. Hubby renounced SG citizen. I renounced SG PR. We got CPFs back. Then I wrote an inquiry letter to CMPB. Same letter like this received:
>>>>
1. Please refer to your email dated xxx regarding your request for your son, xxx to be granted deferment from his full-time National Service (NS) till his age of 21, pending renunciation of his Singapore citizenship (SC).

2. All male Singaporeans or Permanent Residents (PR) are required to fulfil their NS obligations under the Enlistment Act. As a Singapore citizen, xxx is required to apply for exit permit (EP) at the age of 13 years old and to register for NS upon reaching the age of 16½ years old. He is also required for NS enlistment at the earliest opportunity after reaching the age of 18 years, unless he is granted deferment from NS for his overseas studies. We are enclosing the EP leaflet for your retention.

3. Under the Singapore Constitution, Singapore citizens can only renounce their Singapore citizenship (SC) after reaching the age of 21 years. Those below 21 years can apply for NS deferment till 21 years pending renunciation of their SC.

4. You have indicated that xxxx intends to request for NS deferment till his age of 21 to renounce his SC without serving NS. We are enclosing the application forms for your completion. We will assess his eligibility for such deferment once we have received the application.

5. Thank you and regards.
>>>>
My son’s first EP will be expired at the end of the year. His SG PP will expire at the end of next month. Shall I wait his PP expire first, then apply deferment? Or I should apply asap?

Thanks in advance.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 03 Apr 2013 3:58 pm

ccsaus wrote:
Dear MS,
It has been a year and a half, just an update of my case from page 8...now, hubby, son and I all OZ citizen with OZ PP. Hubby renounced SG citizen. I renounced SG PR. We got CPFs back. Then I wrote an inquiry letter to CMPB. Same letter like this received:
>>>>
1. Please refer to your email dated xxx regarding your request for your son, xxx to be granted deferment from his full-time National Service (NS) till his age of 21, pending renunciation of his Singapore citizenship (SC).

2. All male Singaporeans or Permanent Residents (PR) are required to fulfil their NS obligations under the Enlistment Act. As a Singapore citizen, xxx is required to apply for exit permit (EP) at the age of 13 years old and to register for NS upon reaching the age of 16½ years old. He is also required for NS enlistment at the earliest opportunity after reaching the age of 18 years, unless he is granted deferment from NS for his overseas studies. We are enclosing the EP leaflet for your retention.

3. Under the Singapore Constitution, Singapore citizens can only renounce their Singapore citizenship (SC) after reaching the age of 21 years. Those below 21 years can apply for NS deferment till 21 years pending renunciation of their SC.

4. You have indicated that xxxx intends to request for NS deferment till his age of 21 to renounce his SC without serving NS. We are enclosing the application forms for your completion. We will assess his eligibility for such deferment once we have received the application.

5. Thank you and regards.
>>>>
My son’s first EP will be expired at the end of the year. His SG PP will expire at the end of next month. Shall I wait his PP expire first, then apply deferment? Or I should apply asap?

Thanks in advance.





Boy oh Boy , time do fly and I feel that I getting old

Congrats !! Woo Hoo !! Home run baby home run !!

Apply now . Follow the docs to the T

You will need to get Public Notary to legalize your son OZ PP, citizenship and hubby and yourself too. Please do not go to the JP as it is not legal
It will cost you a bomb based on a piece of paper. nego in a set.
I did for my sons years ago at Wolloogong and did it for a mere AUD20.00
It will take about two months for them to process and you will get the first EP till 16 or 16 1/2 . By then you will need to inform them to get another EP that will last till 21
Remember read the docs attached and fill it properly.
Once you get the snail mail from CMPB, it is all good
PS if your son has a change of heart and decide to stick wtih SG citizen then he will need to serve NS by 21
This is the end result for those that follow the rules
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Re: Renouncing Singapore citizenship for <5 year olds

Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 03 Apr 2013 4:46 pm

Holler wrote:Hi there, I just came across this thread and the many helpful cases for well-meaning parents like myself who made the mistake for applying for a Singaporean citizenship for the kids at birth because of sentimental ties.

My husband and I have been living in UK for over a decade now. Both our children (daughter aged 10 and son aged 3) are born in UK and hold dual Singapore-British citizenship. For my son, we made the second mistake of receiving the Baby Bonus even though he has never lived in Singapore. I tried endless to return the Baby Bonus but MSF insisted there is no law to allow that. Ludicrous they should force us to receive state benefits against our will.

My question for all the knowledgeable people on these forum is this. Is there a chance that we can renounce my son's Singapore citizenship before he turns 5? What's best course of action for doing so? Return the citizenship certificate and passport?

Thanks. Btw, what's happened to the kids mentioned in some of older posts? Did they get their deferment and renounciation eventually?


There are two ways you can do.
One sending a cover letter stating your intention to renounce son SG citizenship and PP with all supporting docs for the whole family to CAB , ICA. You will need to notarise all docs .
Send via snail mail
Alternatively , visit SG and bring all docs to ICA second floor and look for Citizen Advise Bureau . Talk to them and this will expedite process .
From memory before age of 5 you are allowed
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby ccsaus » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 7:07 am

Mad Scientist wrote:

Boy oh Boy , time do fly and I feel that I getting old

Congrats !! Woo Hoo !! Home run baby home run !!

Apply now . Follow the docs to the T

You will need to get Public Notary to legalize your son OZ PP, citizenship and hubby and yourself too. Please do not go to the JP as it is not legal
It will cost you a bomb based on a piece of paper. nego in a set.
I did for my sons years ago at Wolloogong and did it for a mere AUD20.00
It will take about two months for them to process and you will get the first EP till 16 or 16 1/2 . By then you will need to inform them to get another EP that will last till 21
Remember read the docs attached and fill it properly.
Once you get the snail mail from CMPB, it is all good
PS if your son has a change of heart and decide to stick wtih SG citizen then he will need to serve NS by 21
This is the end result for those that follow the rules


MANY MANY Thanks!
I will do exactly what u said and update u the result. Fingers crossed.

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renouced citizenship

Postby tralala » Fri, 05 Apr 2013 5:30 am

In the case of someone who renounced his Singapore citizenship at the age of 21 at a foreign embassy and received a letter that his renunciation is registered by the Immigration - can he visit Singapore freely without any problem afterwards?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 05 Apr 2013 7:01 am

If, in fact, he has received the letter from the gahmen that they have both received and accepted his renunciation, then they are free to visit, enter and subject to the same criteria as all other foreigners, possibly even work in Singapore in the future. But gaining PR later, probably not, although it isn't forbidden, but they do have a long memory, especially if you renounced without doing NS, if a male former citizen.

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Postby tralala » Fri, 05 Apr 2013 3:51 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:If, in fact, he has received the letter from the gahmen that they have both received and accepted his renunciation, then they are free to visit, enter and subject to the same criteria as all other foreigners, possibly even work in Singapore in the future. But gaining PR later, probably not, although it isn't forbidden, but they do have a long memory, especially if you renounced without doing NS, if a male former citizen.


Thanks a thousand!

What about for a girl? Let's say if a girl born in Singapore but lives abroad all her childhood and never visits Singapore, no valid Singapore passport and never applies for Singapore IC - can she visit Singapore without problem, using her adopted country's passport or must she renounced her Singapore citizenship before visiting Singapore?

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Postby tralala » Fri, 05 Apr 2013 3:56 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:If, in fact, he has received the letter from the gahmen that they have both received and accepted his renunciation, then they are free to visit, enter and subject to the same criteria as all other foreigners, possibly even work in Singapore in the future. But gaining PR later, probably not, although it isn't forbidden, but they do have a long memory, especially if you renounced without doing NS, if a male former citizen.


Oh, one question - if he has received a letter that his renunciation is registered and that he ceased to be a sg citizen, must the guy inform the NS?


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