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National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

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Postby Callput » Thu, 15 Nov 2012 7:51 pm

von-mises wrote:Hi
My bad for this seemingly dumb question, why do so many people opt out of NS, i mean why do they not want to do it, is there a specific reasons or reasons, can you please let me know, as i am contemplating a move to singapore along with my family 6 year son and 2 year daughter. If i would like to reap the benefits doled out to me after i become a PR or citizen, which i intend to , i guess i should also abide by following the law and serving the country.

I come from India and there is no such thing as NS, so just wanted to understand the concerns before i make the move.

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The reasons are simple, people think 2 years of life wasted. 2 years behind in the career compared to people who chose to opt out. 2 years of stressful and hardworking life. Again thats what people think, not me :). Can't think of any other reason.

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Postby von-mises » Thu, 15 Nov 2012 8:00 pm

If my son wants to study medicine or engineering, can he opt for the NS after he completes his study as a doctor or as engineer that way he can serve as a army doctor rather than at 16 years or so as said by few folks here.
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Postby nakatago » Thu, 15 Nov 2012 8:41 pm

von-mises wrote:If my son wants to study medicine or engineering, can he opt for the NS after he completes his study as a doctor or as engineer that way he can serve as a army doctor rather than at 16 years or so as said by few folks here.


No. I don't remember where the posts are but those that do get deferment are the exception. Those who are in the country, safe to say, won't get deferment. At all.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 15 Nov 2012 9:50 pm

von-mises wrote:If my son wants to study medicine or engineering, can he opt for the NS after he completes his study as a doctor or as engineer that way he can serve as a army doctor rather than at 16 years or so as said by few folks here.


There's the rub. He might get a 5 year deferment but that would be the extent of it. It would not carry him through either law or medicine. Again, he would only get a deferment IF he can get into the Singapore Universities. No deferments for overseas educations. Too many have tried and abused that route so it's no go. He will do his NS before going overseas to school and that's the part that chaffs a lot of people.

The other reason is sad-arsed parents who are nothing bu abusers of the system who only want to take by don't want the obligations. If the son leaves Singapore without doing his NS, legally (Singapore law) he is a deserter. He will never be allowed to visit or work in Singapore and will do jail time if picked up/found out in Singapore. If one takes up PR here it's all explained but most gloss over it in their haste to collect the goodies (purchases of HDB, Subsidized medicine, easier/cheaper access to local schools, etc.) They don't think long term, nor do they think about their son(s) future. The networks the boys will make in NS will last a lifetime and one day they may need one of them. (anywhere in the world) In fact, one of them might be your son's best friend and later be PM here. You can never tell. What happens when the son is forced to leave his girlfriend here and do a runner to avoid NS. Think he's going to thank you? Think carefully.

Yes, I'm a long time PR. Yes my son is currently in the Singapore Navy doing his NS. In fact, his ROD is in May I believe. He's got the rest of his life ahead of him, with no bridges burned. (And THAT is the key here - Don't Burn Bridges) believe me, two years, in the scheme of life is nothing (I'm 65 and going strong). Strong Eagle is about 4 years behind me and he's going just as strong if not stronger).

Think of your son. Not your personal wishes. Don't burn his bridges for him.

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Postby Callput » Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:47 pm

Completely agree with SMS, especially on the experiences that NS can bring, you can never get anywhere. I met one local here who was posted in the bomb difussion squad, apparently there are still lots of bombs in Singapore soil planted during world war times, where ever a new condo construction starts they discover bombs and his squad is called for, he does reservist.

Another person told me he used to handle those bazooka guns, wow, where else can you get that sort of experience without getting into full time military.

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MS advise please

Postby gooz4 » Wed, 12 Dec 2012 9:35 am

Dear MS,

I've read your many insightful posts in this thread and I was hoping for your advice in my case.

I was born in Singapore and I left the country at the age of 9 when my parents migrated out of Singapore.
Thankfully, I didn't collect my IC at all.

I gained my PR in Aus shortly after and at the age of 15 I became and Australian citizen (with the rest of my family except my mum, who still retained her Singapore citzenship).

NS deferred me for my studies in Aus and now that I've completed it they want me back.
I'm 21 now and want to renounce my Sing citizenship (obviously because I've grown up in Aus since 9) but they are not letting me unless I complete my NS (which I find ridiculous; having not lived there since the age of 9).

However a negative in my case (from reading the posts), is that I extended my Singapore passport past the age of 11 (it has been expired for years now though).

I just completed my dental degree and worry that a two year break will result in a lack of practice (therefore minimal to no employment opportunities after I return from NS).

I am torn between going back versus just staying here. Its not so much the extended family there, its more that fact that it would be nice to transit through Singapore or go for a 1 week holiday in the future.

Thoughts?
My mum is close to getting her Aus citizenship, will that affect anything now in terms of absolving me of NS duties?

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Re: MS advise please

Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 13 Dec 2012 3:30 pm

gooz4 wrote:Dear MS,

I've read your many insightful posts in this thread and I was hoping for your advice in my case.

I was born in Singapore and I left the country at the age of 9 when my parents migrated out of Singapore.
Thankfully, I didn't collect my IC at all.

I gained my PR in Aus shortly after and at the age of 15 I became and Australian citizen (with the rest of my family except my mum, who still retained her Singapore citzenship).

NS deferred me for my studies in Aus and now that I've completed it they want me back.
I'm 21 now and want to renounce my Sing citizenship (obviously because I've grown up in Aus since 9) but they are not letting me unless I complete my NS (which I find ridiculous; having not lived there since the age of 9).

However a negative in my case (from reading the posts), is that I extended my Singapore passport past the age of 11 (it has been expired for years now though).

I just completed my dental degree and worry that a two year break will result in a lack of practice (therefore minimal to no employment opportunities after I return from NS).

I am torn between going back versus just staying here. Its not so much the extended family there, its more that fact that it would be nice to transit through Singapore or go for a 1 week holiday in the future.

Thoughts?
My mum is close to getting her Aus citizenship, will that affect anything now in terms of absolving me of NS duties?


If your parent had stated their intention to renounce when you turn 21 at the age of 16 instead of just deferring it for studies this issue would not have cropped up
I believe your parents paid bond for your studies
Now, let's look at this issue hoilistically
1. ICA may or may not know you are holding Oz PP. You cannot hold two PP after 21. You have to relinquish either one.
2. That does not excuse you for not doing NS if you chose to renounce SG PP. NS you have to go thru whether you like it or not.
3. If you chose to keep SG and let go OZ. You can reacquire it before the age of 27( I think) due to this ground. I have posted this before for someone here.
4. NS is not bad either as you have attained a Dental degree. All you need to do is certify yourself with Medical Board> you will be an MO(Medical Officer) due to your qualification which means allows you to practise your skill for free hence you will not lose this dental skill while serving NS
5. If you chose to ignore be prepared for a kick in the bum in later years be it via transit or seminar in Singapore

Thread carefully
5.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby Ciesther » Sat, 15 Dec 2012 5:33 am

I am new to the forum and have read many post here about NS deferment. I need help quick. My son left Singapore when he was 4 years old and became an Australian citizen at age of 9. He did not renew his Singapore passport which was expired before he turns 11 and he did not have a NRIC.

We contacted CMPB before he turns 13 to apply for deferment till he is 21 but was told to do so after he turns 13. We contacted CMPB recently and was told to do so after he turns 16.5. We were also told to apply for exit permit but we are not able to put the bond.

My son is now 14 years old and the last time he left Singapore was before he turns 13 years old so we did not apply for exit permit when he left Singapore. What should we do?

Our concern are:

1. If we apply for exit permit now but return to Singapore for holiday before the exit permit expired and apply new exit permit for another year, will he be granted with the new exit permit.

2. Should we apply for NS deferment till 21 years old pending renunciation of Singapore citizenship now or should we wait till he turns 16.5.

Please help.

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Postby Ciesther » Sat, 15 Dec 2012 7:04 am

Sorry my mistake, my son left Singapore when he was 6 not 4.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 15 Dec 2012 2:34 pm

Ciesther wrote:I am new to the forum and have read many post here about NS deferment. I need help quick. My son left Singapore when he was 4 years old and became an Australian citizen at age of 9. He did not renew his Singapore passport which was expired before he turns 11 and he did not have a NRIC.

We contacted CMPB before he turns 13 to apply for deferment till he is 21 but was told to do so after he turns 13. We contacted CMPB recently and was told to do so after he turns 16.5. We were also told to apply for exit permit but we are not able to put the bond.

My son is now 14 years old and the last time he left Singapore was before he turns 13 years old so we did not apply for exit permit when he left Singapore. What should we do?

Our concern are:

1. If we apply for exit permit now but return to Singapore for holiday before the exit permit expired and apply new exit permit for another year, will he be granted with the new exit permit.

2. Should we apply for NS deferment till 21 years old pending renunciation of Singapore citizenship now or should we wait till he turns 16.5.

Please help.


Before I proceed with your questions let me clarify a few issues
1. CMPB albeit Mindef is not able to capture any info of your child before the age of 13 hence they told you to apply when the child TURNS 13 not before for EP
2. You have about three months to do that application of exit permit once he turns 13 as this is a standard SOP for most countries visitation of 3 months Social Visit Pass
3. Failure to do that unless written comms via slow mail or email that informed you that you can apply EP at the age of 16 , your child is on a one way street of trouble in foreseeable future
4. Once you pass 13 and without an EP , a bond is require and put in place by Mindef
5. You need to state your intention at the age of 13 to renounce and attained the EP

Now, your questions
1, Yes , you can apply for EP but not from overseas . You need to return back to Singapore to get one approved. CMPB is the port of call
2. Alternatively get assurance via e-mail on this issue and your intention to renounce your child since he has left SG since the age of 4 blah blah blah i.e mitigating factors
2. Only when you have all this writing , the next step will be to return to SG and get the formalisation of renouncing paper till 21.
3. If you and your spouse is still holding SG PP then your child chance to get approval is bleak
I hazard to guess but I think you are not giving the full picture. Ignorance is not a bliss in this instance. Many have tried we different kind of excuses and I have not come across one that succeed.
Failure to respond or ignore will only lead to more complication
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby Ciesther » Sat, 15 Dec 2012 5:42 pm

Thanks for your advise.

Sorry I forgot to mention that both my husband and myself are no longer Singaporean. We gave up SG citizenship in 2007. As my son last left SG in Feb 2011, he was 12 years old then as such we did not apply for EP. If we go back next Jan, will my son be in trouble or will we be fined? My husband is worry that my son might not be able to return to Australia if they don't approve his EP. Will that happen?

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 15 Dec 2012 6:00 pm

Ciesther wrote:Thanks for your advise.

Sorry I forgot to mention that both my husband and myself are no longer Singaporean. We gave up SG citizenship in 2007. As my son last left SG in Feb 2011, he was 12 years old then as such we did not apply for EP. If we go back next Jan, will my son be in trouble or will we be fined? My husband is worry that my son might not be able to return to Australia if they don't approve his EP. Will that happen?


You missed my point by a mile.
When he turned 13 , did you or did you not apply for an EP.
If no ,then he is in trouble with Mindef as technically speaking he is still a Singaporean and when a child left Singapore for three months or more after the age of 13, that child needs to apply for an EP for going overseas for whatever reason.
Without a valid EP and living outside Singapore he is flouting section 33 of the NS enlistment act.
Of course, hubby will be worried, who wouldn't ?
BTW, I am just curious, who is the monkey in CMPB or Mindef that informed you that you can apply for EP at age 16?
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Postby Wd40 » Sat, 15 Dec 2012 7:19 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Spot on alantang_sha.

With born in Singapore, d.o.b., and race indicated, it would be very easy regardless of the name. How many were born on that day in Singapore of the indicated race who have not done NS and are not listed as deceased. All the databases are now linked to the ICA database. I'd reckon the number would be rather small (two or three maybe, if that many). Additionally, with image recognition software also installed and working, I'm sure with the other data, and a link to the image software it wouldn't be too hard to make a match.

In the words of Dirty Harry, "Do you feel lucky?"


I am responding to an old post, but just curious: how would the officer know the OPs race if he is using his US passport? Or do you mean by physical appearance? To me all oriental Asians look the same, but I guess oriental Asians are better at identifying race from appearance. I mean is it possible to differentiate a Thai from a Vietnamese or a Korean from Japanese or are these actually classified as races? :???:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 15 Dec 2012 9:46 pm

While I'm not that good at it, most "oriental" Asians are pretty good at recognizing country of origin. How, honestly, I don't know, but I do know I've gotten pretty good at differentiating between Singaporean and PRCs. To give a description, however, I'd be at a loss as it seems to be something like intuition. Subtle signs adding up I guess.

But an Asian, with a country of Birth listed as Singapore, regardless of the nationality of the passport with an age less than say 38 or 40 could flag "interest". It's pretty easy to differentiate between the four major races here, Malay, Indian, Chinese and Eurasian (although these can very much resemble one of the other races) But with country of birth and DOB a glance would narrow down the search to only 2 or 3 I assure you.

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Postby Ciesther » Sun, 16 Dec 2012 3:43 am

I did not apply for EP when he turn 13 because we were out of Singapore then. CMPB did not say to apply for EP when he turns 16, they said can only apply for deferment when he turn 16 but we have to apply for EP now. But my son has no NRIC or Sing Pass so we can't apply EP online.


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