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National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

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Microwave0
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Postby Microwave0 » Sun, 19 Feb 2012 2:43 pm

Hi,
Glad to have found this board and have read the entirety of this thread and the sticky written by Kraiik.

I left Sing at age 5, now 29 years old and became an American citizen at age 23. I had a Sing passport when I left the country but did not renew when it expired (prior to age 11). However, I never applied for an exit permit.

I'd like to return to Singapore to see my grandmother before too late, but it seems that I could not do so without being penalized, according to advice on this board and the general rule of law. It seems to me that, even if the gov't would allow me to enter the country without punishment, they would never actually say so.

Still, my older brother did report for service back in 2000 and he walked through the airport without being handcuffed. When he did report to Mindef they didn't even have him listed for duty! My stepfather, as a college counselor, has since spoken with a Singaporean student who says he left the country at an early age and reentered around age 19 without any trouble.

I guess my question is, what method of screening do they have at the airport? We hear about being arrested or fined/jailed, but this is, logically, the official government position. Is it possible that, unofficially, they never actually bother to keep track of the obliged? The piano man was only punished because of his high profile status - it was known that he was a former citizen and he was made to be a good example.

What of commonfolk, like the most of us? Do we fly under the radar? And would my American citizenship offer any protection? I'm interested in your opinions. Thanks

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sun, 19 Feb 2012 6:05 pm

Microwave0 wrote:Hi,
Glad to have found this board and have read the entirety of this thread and the sticky written by Kraiik.

I left Sing at age 5, now 29 years old and became an American citizen at age 23. I had a Sing passport when I left the country but did not renew when it expired (prior to age 11). However, I never applied for an exit permit.

I'd like to return to Singapore to see my grandmother before too late, but it seems that I could not do so without being penalized, according to advice on this board and the general rule of law. It seems to me that, even if the gov't would allow me to enter the country without punishment, they would never actually say so.

Still, my older brother did report for service back in 2000 and he walked through the airport without being handcuffed. When he did report to Mindef they didn't even have him listed for duty! My stepfather, as a college counselor, has since spoken with a Singaporean student who says he left the country at an early age and reentered around age 19 without any trouble.

I guess my question is, what method of screening do they have at the airport? We hear about being arrested or fined/jailed, but this is, logically, the official government position. Is it possible that, unofficially, they never actually bother to keep track of the obliged? The piano man was only punished because of his high profile status - it was known that he was a former citizen and he was made to be a good example.

What of commonfolk, like the most of us? Do we fly under the radar? And would my American citizenship offer any protection? I'm interested in your opinions. Thanks


This is more like playing Russian Roulette to me. I will only advise based on the legality and the rules around it. Yes, technically, if you entered SG using US PP chances of getting caught is lesser.
However if one may ask , is it full proof? The answer is NO. Recently one chap entered SG at the aged of 50. He got caught at border control and sentenced in court. He was supposedly sentenced to jail but was only fine $5K based on the circumstances around his case.
There are about 5K approx male child overseas not registered since 2010.
How many will be under the radar no one knows.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby Microwave0 » Mon, 20 Feb 2012 3:22 am

Thanks MS, your input as always is invaluable and much appreciated.

Do you happen to know the citizenship of the 50 year old man?

It seems strange that SG can still penalize a foreign citizen for a service that is no longer owed? I suppose the man would have contacted his embassy? Ultimately, this is a big game of what-if and the only way for me to know is to actually re-enter or formally renounce SG citizenship.

It's funny because I grew up ruing the thought of leaving a life built in the US for SG duty, yet parents and relatives always encouraged the idea. Upon graduating college in 2004, and having no immediate prospects I flirted with the idea of reporting, but by then was advised that it would be a waste of my time. I guess the saying's not true that parents always know best.

At age 29, having no other reason to return than to see my grandmother, reporting for service seems an unnecessary detour to take at this juncture of life. It would be nice to see the homeland.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 20 Feb 2012 3:31 am

Malaysian. Left at a young age

The problem is you hold SG PP and you DID NOT renounce it properly. Hence you are not US citizen per se as the Constitution states you are a Sger first and all other citizenship takes second place unless you do it properly.
Those who did slip through a minor compare to those get caught. Whether border control takes up the matter is a separate issue.
Why go thru the anxiety of looking over your shoulder when you are here.?
After so many years away, you will not feel the loyalty in you towards Singapore. Meet your grandma in JB is one option
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Postby Microwave0 » Mon, 20 Feb 2012 4:04 am

Grandma too old, forgetful and fragile for travel anymore.

Can't say there's no loyalty or soft-spot for the country. I did like being able to say I was Singaporean, up to an adult age. Whether that means I should have served can be debated, but that decision is past due.

Appreciate your understanding. Looks like I will have to contact the embassy or authorities if I truly want to know...or test Russian Roulette-style by entering the country blind (not likely).

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 20 Feb 2012 2:38 pm

Microwave0 wrote:Grandma too old, forgetful and fragile for travel anymore.

Can't say there's no loyalty or soft-spot for the country. I did like being able to say I was Singaporean, up to an adult age. Whether that means I should have served can be debated, but that decision is past due.

Appreciate your understanding. Looks like I will have to contact the embassy or authorities if I truly want to know...or test Russian Roulette-style by entering the country blind (not likely).


You are on the fence. Damn if you don't , damn if you notified them. Be careful with how you proceed as it will ring a lot of bells
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Postby DeGago » Sat, 03 Mar 2012 7:49 pm

Microwave0 wrote:Grandma too old, forgetful and fragile for travel anymore.

Can't say there's no loyalty or soft-spot for the country. I did like being able to say I was Singaporean, up to an adult age. Whether that means I should have served can be debated, but that decision is past due.

Appreciate your understanding. Looks like I will have to contact the embassy or authorities if I truly want to know...or test Russian Roulette-style by entering the country blind (not likely).

Change maybe your name in your passport. The border gays are not able to find you anymore in the computer. When the ask you or this is your first time in Singapore, just say yes and as tourist, dress very very ang moh and you probably in. Don't know which border (JB or Airport) is easier to enter the country, maybe someone has better experience with it...

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 03 Mar 2012 10:35 pm

DeGago wrote:Change maybe your name in your passport. The border gays are not able to find you anymore in the computer. When the ask you or this is your first time in Singapore, just say yes and as tourist, dress very very ang moh and you probably in. Don't know which border (JB or Airport) is easier to enter the country, maybe someone has better experience with it...


Not a good idea.

With all of the 5 main Singapore Ministry databases now interconnected in the ICA'a database, it is now easy for ICA to check with IRAS, MOM, Ministry of Home affairs and the National Health databases. As the OP has indicted, his is Asian as it was his step-father that moved them from Singapore. Therefore changing his name will only cause further question as it will still show his date of birth on the passport and his race and his country of birth. A lot of foreigners are born here, but if he is already 29 the odds are he would have been born in a local hospital if of Asian descent and therefore, most probably Singaporean. Once nobody of that name shows up in the birth records with that name/race on the birth registered that day, it's going to raise red flags. Not good.

ALL births are registered in Singapore, just not all are Singaporean citizens at birth. But the records will still reflect the births. So, the next logical question from the Immigration officer would be the mother's name as that would also be reflected and then the game would be up.

How lucky does the OP feel?

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Postby Koalabear » Mon, 26 Mar 2012 11:24 am

Microwave0 wrote:Grandma too old, forgetful and fragile for travel anymore.

Can't say there's no loyalty or soft-spot for the country. I did like being able to say I was Singaporean, up to an adult age. Whether that means I should have served can be debated, but that decision is past due.

Appreciate your understanding. Looks like I will have to contact the embassy or authorities if I truly want to know...or test Russian Roulette-style by entering the country blind (not likely).


Sometimes I find it amazing that Singaporeans feel it is inconvenient to travel to JB. My old, forgetful and fragile neighbour travels 4 hours by air to exotic central american islands every year.

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Postby alantang_sha » Wed, 26 Sep 2012 3:02 pm

DeGago wrote:
Microwave0 wrote:Grandma too old, forgetful and fragile for travel anymore.

Can't say there's no loyalty or soft-spot for the country. I did like being able to say I was Singaporean, up to an adult age. Whether that means I should have served can be debated, but that decision is past due.

Appreciate your understanding. Looks like I will have to contact the embassy or authorities if I truly want to know...or test Russian Roulette-style by entering the country blind (not likely).

Change maybe your name in your passport. The border gays are not able to find you anymore in the computer. When the ask you or this is your first time in Singapore, just say yes and as tourist, dress very very ang moh and you probably in. Don't know which border (JB or Airport) is easier to enter the country, maybe someone has better experience with it...


But when the officer see your passport with Born in "singapore" just like my son's passport, then their eye may wide open to check out the DB.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 26 Sep 2012 4:45 pm

Spot on alantang_sha.

With born in Singapore, d.o.b., and race indicated, it would be very easy regardless of the name. How many were born on that day in Singapore of the indicated race who have not done NS and are not listed as deceased. All the databases are now linked to the ICA database. I'd reckon the number would be rather small (two or three maybe, if that many). Additionally, with image recognition software also installed and working, I'm sure with the other data, and a link to the image software it wouldn't be too hard to make a match.

In the words of Dirty Harry, "Do you feel lucky?"

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Postby jasonamh » Sun, 14 Oct 2012 8:08 am

Hi,

I would like to seek some advice from this forum with regards to applying NS deferment for my son pending renunciation of Singapore Citizenship at age of 21. Both myself and my wife are Singapore citizens. We left Singapore in 2005. My son is now 11 and will be 12 next year April.

I have researched extensively on the internet and was made aware that the requirement to defer by renunciation depends on whether the subject has enjoyed social-economic benefits of citizenship (e.g. applied for a Singapore identity card, studied in Singapore beyond the age of 11, or traveling on a Singapore passport). My son has never collected Singapore identity card and has never studied in Singapore. However, when we went back to Singapore last year, we made a mistake of renewing my son's passport. I was wondering if this constituent as an act of enjoying social-economic benefits, and if yes, is there anything we can do, e.g. surrender his Singapore passport?

Thanks in advance ..

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 14 Oct 2012 10:36 am

Sadly, yes. Maybe SE can help if he sees this, but I see a major obstacle with the renewal. However, If both parents still hold Singapore citizenship, deferment will not be entertained either, I don't believe.

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Postby offshoreoildude » Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:12 am

jasonamh wrote:Hi,

I would like to seek some advice from this forum with regards to applying NS deferment for my son pending renunciation of Singapore Citizenship at age of 21. Both myself and my wife are Singapore citizens. We left Singapore in 2005. My son is now 11 and will be 12 next year April.

I have researched extensively on the internet and was made aware that the requirement to defer by renunciation depends on whether the subject has enjoyed social-economic benefits of citizenship (e.g. applied for a Singapore identity card, studied in Singapore beyond the age of 11, or traveling on a Singapore passport). My son has never collected Singapore identity card and has never studied in Singapore. However, when we went back to Singapore last year, we made a mistake of renewing my son's passport. I was wondering if this constituent as an act of enjoying social-economic benefits, and if yes, is there anything we can do, e.g. surrender his Singapore passport?

Thanks in advance ..


How can you expect to have him not serve NS when you all continue to enjoy the privilege of being SC's? If you all had genuinely migrated back then and changed nationalities that would be a different matter. As it stands, as SC's now; you are obliged to fulfill all your duties as citizens of this great and glorious little red dot.
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Postby von-mises » Thu, 15 Nov 2012 6:50 pm

Hi
My bad for this seemingly dumb question, why do so many people opt out of NS, i mean why do they not want to do it, is there a specific reasons or reasons, can you please let me know, as i am contemplating a move to singapore along with my family 6 year son and 2 year daughter. If i would like to reap the benefits doled out to me after i become a PR or citizen, which i intend to , i guess i should also abide by following the law and serving the country.

I come from India and there is no such thing as NS, so just wanted to understand the concerns before i make the move.

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