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National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:21 pm

In theory, because you are a US citizen, you could do that. Because you were born in the US you are a US citizen by birth. Therefore, you are a naturalized Singaporean (even though your parents ARE Singaporean). It is possible then that they may be willing to do a deal with a fine only or some such. However, I would only grant them a teleconference interview and not come into Singapore until such time as you have more guarantees. But on the face of it, you ARE still liable for NS and because protocols were not followed, regardless of the unfairness of it, you are still a deserter and the possibility of the various remedies available to the government can be inflicted should they decide to do so. In order to keep from burning any bridges, you really only have one option.

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Postby hkslegends » Thu, 29 Dec 2011 2:20 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:In theory, because you are a US citizen, you could do that. Because you were born in the US you are a US citizen by birth. Therefore, you are a naturalized Singaporean (even though your parents ARE Singaporean). It is possible then that they may be willing to do a deal with a fine only or some such. However, I would only grant them a teleconference interview and not come into Singapore until such time as you have more guarantees. But on the face of it, you ARE still liable for NS and because protocols were not followed, regardless of the unfairness of it, you are still a deserter and the possibility of the various remedies available to the government can be inflicted should they decide to do so. In order to keep from burning any bridges, you really only have one option.


The option being to serve NS, or accept whatever penalties they decide to impose?

As I have mentioned elsewhere, I'm not 100% against NS, as disruptive as it will be to my academics, but it just seems wasteful to spend 2 years in NS so I can end my citizenship on "good terms". Had I followed the protocols, it would still end up with me not serving anyway. I understand there are rules to uphold, but I'm sure the fellows over at MINDEF realize this too

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Postby zero cool » Sat, 31 Dec 2011 11:11 am

Dear hkslegends,

If you were born outside of Singapore and have never held a Singapore passport, IC number, or enjoyed any of the benefits of being Singaporean then you might be ok. I think that people might be confusing the rules.

If you are born in Singapore, you have until a certain age to leave. If you do not then there is all this exit permit/bond posting stuff, but you still have to serve NS before you can renounce.

If you are born outside of Singapore and were registered as a citizen by registration, then you have dual citizenship until your 22nd birthday. You can defer NS registration until you are 21. If you do not take the oath of citizenship when you are 21 then you lose your Singapore Citizenship, but you do NOT have to serve NS first.

I am not sure exactly what the rules are if you hold a Singapore passport, since this implies that you know that you were a citizen and were enjoying the privileges of being a citizen. I am also not sure if all this exit permit/bond stuff applies to you if you were born outside of Singapore, since they did not apply to me.

My father registered me as a Singapore citizen when I was born, in England and I was a dependent on his Singapore passport until I was 10. Unfortunately my father thought that I was only a Singapore citizen whilst I was a dependent on his passport, so did not tell me that I may have been a Singapore citizen.

I have never had a Singapore passport or IC number. I have also never received anything to indicate that I may have been a Singapore citizen and did not receive the decision letter which was supposed to be sent to me when I was 21. Therefore I did not know that I had until I was 22 to decide to come to Singapore and take an oath and then do NS, or live with the consequences.

When I finally managed to come back this year and found a job, the EP was initially denied since I was on their system as having being an ex-Singapore citizen, who had not fufilled my NS liability!!!!!!!

I went to the foreigner floor of the ICA building who were useless and told me to email them. I then phoned the CMPB who were also useless and could not understand the concept of due diligence. However they told me to contact the registrar of citizens on another floor of the ICA building, who directed me to the oath taking department.

I explained to them what was going on and they contacted the CMPB, who amended my NS liability status and removed their objection to my EP being approved. I do not know if I can be anything other than an EP holder, but am grateful to be allowed to work here, so am happy to just work hard and do my best to contribute and give back to society.

I suggest you contact the registrar of citizens, or the oath taking department of the ICA building, in addition to the CMPB. It is better if you say that you did not take an oath, instead of saying that you failed to take an oath, or renounced your citizenship. It is also better not to say anything about your intentions about serving NS.

There seems to be some sort of quid-pro-quo (tit-for-tat) policy in effect, so you may have already angered people by not taking the oath of citizenship, so may have to live with whatever consequences they decide.

Zero Cool

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 31 Dec 2011 2:38 pm

Zero Cool, the biggest difference is that you, yourself, enjoyed the socio-economic benefits of Singapore, e.g., you never had a passport of your own but rather as a dependent on your parents passport. The taking of a Singapore Passport is worse than taking up an NRIC. However, IF his passport expired BEFORE his 11th birthday, then he may well stand a chance, but I'd not wager a slug nickle on it being successful. I guess time will tell......

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Postby hkslegends » Sat, 31 Dec 2011 3:25 pm

SUPPOSEDLY I was still liable to register for NS, defer and apply for exit permits if I so desired. However those forms were lost in the mail so I was not aware of it. It was not unitl my 22nd birthday when I received the letter saying I ceased to be a Singapore citizen that they also informed me of my defaulter charges

I did hold a Singapore passport, but I'm not sure if/when it was renewed. I do recall though that my last visit roughly 5 years ago was on my US passport. The last time I had visited before that was 7 years prior, which would be 12 years ago from today, which would put me at 10 or 11 years old (22 now).

I do not believe that I ever had an NRIC. Like I have mentioned, it seems to be slow on their end, so there is the possibility that it will not turn out as bad. To my knowledge my case has been transferred twice. For what it's worth, they had said they would like me to visit for an interview, but I was in school at that time so was unable to.

Thanks for all the replies

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 31 Dec 2011 4:34 pm

Good Luck dude. Hope there is a positive end to this.

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Postby zero cool » Sat, 31 Dec 2011 6:19 pm

Dear hkslegends,

I was wondering if you got the 21st birthday decision letter, which I only heard about this May. I assume that this letter gives you until your 22nd birthday to decide whether to come back and take the oath of citizenship and do NS, regardless of whether you filled in the forms or not, and also reminds you of the consequences of making the wrong decision.

I think you mentioned something about two 22nd birthday letters. If you never got the 21st birthday decision letter, then it seems a bit unfair to skip straight to the punishment letter, if you were not properly warned in the first place.

As sundaymorningstaple mentioned, it may depend on when your Singapore passport expired.

Zero Cool

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Postby hkslegends » Sat, 31 Dec 2011 6:57 pm

zero cool wrote:Dear hkslegends,

I was wondering if you got the 21st birthday decision letter, which I only heard about this May. I assume that this letter gives you until your 22nd birthday to decide whether to come back and take the oath of citizenship and do NS, regardless of whether you filled in the forms or not, and also reminds you of the consequences of making the wrong decision.

I think you mentioned something about two 22nd birthday letters. If you never got the 21st birthday decision letter, then it seems a bit unfair to skip straight to the punishment letter, if you were not properly warned in the first place.

As sundaymorningstaple mentioned, it may depend on when your Singapore passport expired.

Zero Cool


I do believe I got my 21st letter but I'm not sure since I was in college at that time so didn't deal with the mail. I did see my 22nd letter though and it did not mention anything negative about failing to take the oath. It was in a separate letter from MINDEF that mentioned the defaulter charges.


Thank you sundaymorningstaple

So I guess it's safe to say that no one knows what is likely to happen? Since there are a huge number of factors and I'm fuzzy on the exact details.

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Postby klchew » Tue, 03 Jan 2012 9:01 pm

"Just from a student's perspective - I would rather have done NS first, then college second. I'm in a similar situation where I might end up doing NS. Long story, but I already finished college and will be looking to apply to grad school within the next year or two. If I do have to do NS, it will be quite disruptive to my plans. Of course, ask your son, but personally I think it's better to do NS first so he won't have to worry about it after college."

Thanks for your input. I've been thinking along the same lines too. Anyway, hope that you will be able to sort out your problems soon. By the way, perhaps these NS sites may help with information - http://iprep.ns.sg/index.html and http://www.ns.sg/nsPortal/index.jsp.
All the best.

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Postby joshuaday11 » Wed, 04 Jan 2012 6:07 pm

to HKlegends, zerocools and klchew

My best advice is read all the infos on NS issues , its law, guidelines and penalties.
Your assumption may not be what the agencies will be thinking of.
Tread carefully.
If you have the chance to read all MS post is another option

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 04 Jan 2012 11:36 pm

joshuaday11, thanks for weighing in after your ordeal. It's a shame that they seem to think of it rather lightly. They just really don't understand the gravity of the situation.

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Postby joshuaday11 » Thu, 05 Jan 2012 2:51 am

I went thru harrowing times with CMPB, Mindef, ICA and those that thought they are the professional in solving my woes. Mind you I was on top of this game and I still got knocked over by a few guidelines that sprang out recently. I sacrificed my future employment for the sake of my family.
At least I had done a clean break with SG Government and there will be no surprises in the future.
Absurd, ludicrous and unimaginable were too light a word when dealing with them.
Just make sure you had everything in writing
Good Luck

JD

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Postby hkslegends » Thu, 05 Jan 2012 10:18 am

joshuaday11 wrote:I went thru harrowing times with CMPB, Mindef, ICA and those that thought they are the professional in solving my woes. Mind you I was on top of this game and I still got knocked over by a few guidelines that sprang out recently. I sacrificed my future employment for the sake of my family.
At least I had done a clean break with SG Government and there will be no surprises in the future.
Absurd, ludicrous and unimaginable were too light a word when dealing with them.
Just make sure you had everything in writing
Good Luck

JD


Do you mind explaining your situation? Might shed some light on what I can expect

Sundaymorning - I dont think anyone is taking it lighlty. I can't say I'm losing sleep over it either but why would I? I spent 99% of my life in the states, the concept of being a deserter for a country that I travel to for vacation is abstract. Imagine you suddenly became a criminal in the last country you visited for fun. Until you experience the consequences, it's hard to feel the weight of the charge. In any case, we're doing our best to resolve the matter. Thank you all for the input

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 05 Jan 2012 12:21 pm

:roll:

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Postby joshuaday11 » Fri, 06 Jan 2012 3:49 am



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