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Mad Scientist
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Re: desperate mom seeking help

Postby Mad Scientist » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 9:21 am

Mad Scientist wrote:
ccsaus wrote:
My case:

- My son was born in Singapore as a foreigner. We were all foreigners.

- When my son was 6 years old, he got his Singapore passport together with his father. I became Singapore PR.

As you are well aware , China does not permit dual citizenship so does Singapore. Their immigration scrutiny is more vicious compare to SG

- When my son was 8 years old, I followed the request to renew his passport to the new biometric passport which will be expired when he is exactly 14years+5months old.

OK, understood. do not renew his SG PP once expired. By then he would have acquired OZ PP and citizenship. These go the same way for all the three of you

- When my son was 9 years old, my whole family migrated to the 3rd country.

- Now my son is 12 years old and he will get his 3rd country passport next year (after his 13th birthday but before his 14th birthday)

- My husband is still Singapore citizen and I am still Singapore PR. I will get the 3rd country passport together with my son next year.

When he turn 13 on his DOB apply Exit Permit for him via CMPB. You must do this first

My questions:

1. Does my son stand a chance to legally avoid NS?

Yes if you follow Kraikk sticky . No if you stuff up the first step to ge EP for him
2. If yes, then what are the best steps I should follow?

Go to search button to read up on Kraikk sticky or all my posts which are bound to be abundant of comms from mums or dads asking for help that will suit your situation
3. If yes, does that mean my husband must give up his Singapore citizenship, and I must give up my PR?

Yes , all of you. You and hubby need to forego SG citizenship and PR. Proof to that effect and renounce. Only then your son can get defer till 21 prior renunciation. My posts has this guide too.

The search button is at the right hand top corner. If you still in doubt , yell , I will try to help




Now for the serious part, I have seen more and more Indian PR and PRC PR and those naturalise SG giving up their PRship and citizenship to jump to another country. What you did is not wrong at all but the effect and significant of you and your countrymen using SG as a stepping stone does not augurs well with the Gahmen. Those new applicants and intended to REALLY set their roots here will be seriously affected. hence me asking where are you from . This tsunami effect has been more prevalent and the consequence of your actions will affect others
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby ccsaus » Sun, 30 Oct 2011 6:14 pm

Dear MS,

Much appreciated for the pointers.

I do appreciate your comment in red. In reality, my whole family love Singapore. In this circumstance, I just follow an ordinary mom's heart - to give my son an opportunity to make his own decision when he reaches 18.

Thanks again for all the valuable information in this forum.

Regards,

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 31 Oct 2011 4:30 am

ccsaus wrote:Dear MS,

Much appreciated for the pointers.

I do appreciate your comment in red. In reality, my whole family love Singapore. In this circumstance, I just follow an ordinary mom's heart - to give my son an opportunity to make his own decision when he reaches 18.

Thanks again for all the valuable information in this forum.

Regards,


No worries , sometimes harsh reality is hard to bear. Just make sure if you decide to do this, thick and thin stick it like glue. The repercussion will only take effect later in life when job opportunities arises for him to take up employment in SG This may hindered his progress. What I can do is to provide informed decisions for you to make. There is no right or wrong as every man is to their own destiny based on the choices they make today. Just be prepared even if you do follow the steps by Kraikk to the T, the decision to allow your son to renounce at the age of 21 is at the hands of Mindef , CMPB and ICA. One can only second guess their next move. Having said that , as I have come across numerous cases , these steps should be 99% spot on. The 1% will be you are a naturalised SGer which may or may not be a factor to deny your son renounciation. Gahmen can be and most of the time very vindictive. Just be aware of this. I cannot be held responsible for your demise if this occurs
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 31 Oct 2011 6:55 am

^^^^^

+1

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Postby klchew » Mon, 26 Dec 2011 3:45 pm

Hi MS, been reading your posts here and its been very informative. Wonder if you can answer some queries that I have about NS. I'm a Malaysian and working in Singapore for some time now. Been thinking about applying for PR but my wife worries about the impact of NS on our son who's 12 this year. I have no problems about NS because I think military training helps to mature a person, fast. My son is ok about it too.

Would it be better for my son to do his NS first before going to university (UK or US)? My idea would be for him to complete his NS in order that he can concentrate on his university studies without interruption and continuing later to postgraduate studies or professional qualifications. Or do you think that he should come back after completing his university studies to do his NS and than go on to do his further studies?

Would the fact that I was a former senior officer with the Malaysian army impact my son if he were to do his NS? Would they put him in a soft unit or treat him as any other NS?

Thank you.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 26 Dec 2011 4:42 pm

First of all, he will not be accorded any special "treatment" because his father was a Malaysian Officer (other than the fact that they might put him into a position where he would not hand "sensitive" data). He would be accorded the same treatment as all other NS men are.

Secondly, yes, he would have to do his NS before going overseas for tertiary education. He cannot get a deferment for overseas studies once he completes his secondary education here.

If you apply for PR and don't include him in your PR application, then the odd of getting PR are greatly reduced, or in your case probably reduced to Zero as it would be obvious you are opted out for your son specifically due to his NS obligation that he would incur.

It already sounds like you have surmounted the two biggest hurdles already.... your acceptance that he would have to do NS and his acceptance of the same. All around, it's better for him in the long run as you don't burn any bridges this way.

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Postby klchew » Mon, 26 Dec 2011 4:56 pm

Hey, thanks for the quick reply and answers. Very useful. Thanks again. Just one last thing, do you think there would be any problem if I enrol my son into a short 1 month military recruit course in Malaysia during his holidays when he is of age before he does his NS? I'm a bit old school and always believe that hard training makes soldiering easy. The course is basically an intensive BMT course with the last week spent on a field exercise in the jungle. Was hoping that it might help him to find NS easier.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 26 Dec 2011 5:48 pm

Not necessary. Really.

My son was/is the lead singer/bassist in an alternative music indie band here in Singapore. He went into NS in May this year. Did his BMT in P. Tekong. It's a jungle island already. Complete with wild boar, etc,. He made out okay. He was assigned to the Navy. My Nephew went into NS 2 weeks ago (His first weekend out was this weekend) He's doing commando training. Not are real problem although they razzed him a lot (as they did with my son) due to both being much old than the Drill Instructors (my son is 22 & so is my nephew) They were in Nafa so had deferments). Both are doing fine. Don't worry about it. In fact, it would probably be a good idea just to get him physically fit (not jungle fit) so when he does go in, if he scores high enough on his IPPT, eg. gets gold, I think his time is reduced several months before he is ROD's.

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Postby klchew » Mon, 26 Dec 2011 8:24 pm

Thanks again. Now, the only thing left is to try to convice my wife that it will be ok for our son to join NS. Fraid she's been freaked out a bit by her colleagues at work who keep telling her horror stories about NS accidents and so on. I suppose you know what that is like. Thanks for the tip about the physical training. Will try to get him fitter and perhaps go for jungle trekking to toughen him up more.

I must say I was startled when you said that your son and nephew at aged 22 were older than their DIs. I suppose that I'm used to NCO trainers to be much older then their recruits. Although, I must say that Malaysia shot itself in its foot again when they came up with a social based NS program which contributes nothing to the country. They could have easily squeezed a BMT course into the 3 months NS as it is now.

Hope your son enjoys the Navy. Your nephew sounds like hard core, commando training. Kudos to him. I'm afraid I was never motivated enough to be that hard core. Although given the choice in Malaysia, I would always take Iban Rangers over Commandos in the jungle at any time. They really know how to make themselves at home in the jungle.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 26 Dec 2011 8:52 pm

I'm a former regular Army (US) chopper pilot NAM era. So, yeah, I'm a bit hardcore as well. My son has known he would be doing NS here since he started Primary school (even though he had dual citizenship). I've talked with him periodically every year since. He was 21 when he started NS and his DI's were 19 & 20! Sure as hell not like the DI's when I was in either! Neither were 6 inch thick innerspring mattresses either during boot camp! Tell your wife the worst thing she has to worry about is the fact that, if he's not overweight, he'll gain some weight in the 9~12 weeks that he will be here (most of it muscle). The grub is good and plenty of it. The quarters are fantastic and clean and well looked after. OH, and like boot camp everywhere in the world, he'll start to recognize the fact that he will come out with a slightly different view of the world in a surprisingly short period of time. He'll learn a lot about himself in the process.

The best thing to tell here is that he will be alright and he'll make her proud.

sms

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Postby klchew » Mon, 26 Dec 2011 9:33 pm

Damn! 6 in spring mattresses, good grub, clean quarters, are you sure its not a hotel? Doesn't sound like any boot camp I know. Great to hear from a combat vet, I always prick up my ears more. Your Nam grunts, well, SF and special units used to train at our Jungle Warfare school in Johore.

In fact, they still send a training cadre every year to Hawaii to train your Marines in tracking. Great competition every year to get into that cadre. Not only do they still draw Malaysian pay but the Marines give them an allowance which almost exceed their salary! Plus the R&R in Hawaii sure beats JB anytime :)

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Postby hkslegends » Wed, 28 Dec 2011 7:40 pm

Hello all,

I've been charged as a defaulter by MINDEF, wondering if anyone has an idea of what might happen. I am mindful of taking information with a grain of salt, so dont worry if you feel you might be misleading me.

I'm 22 years old, born and lived in the US since birth. Parents applied for Singapore citizenship when I was young, but I do not believe we ever renewed my passport. The NS registration forms were not forwarded to us properly so neither my parents nor I knew anything needed to be done. (My dad had served NS when he was young but that was many years ago, and my parents had moved to the US for college since). When I turned 22 we received a letter saying that if I did not take the oath, I will lose my citizenship. No problem there - I did not take oath and they sent a letter asking me to surrender my passport. In a 2nd section it said I have to address the crimes I committed as a citizen, namely failing to serve NS, thus the defaulter charge.

De jure, there's no question that the law was broken, albeit there were mailing issues. De facto, however, it's obvious that I grew up American; it wasn't my intention to ignore Singapore law, I was just unaware of what's to happen. Had I known though, I would have registered for NS but deferred it until 21, when I would have renounced the citizenship. In the end, I would still not be serving NS.

My question is what is the likely outcome? Is there a possibly that the issue can be resolved without significant penalty, or is it likely that I will still have to serve NS. We have been contacting MINDEF and so far they've requested my biography. Other than that, I haven't really heard anything from them.

For the record, it's not that I'm scared to serve NS, it's just that it will be very disruptive to my life. Growing up without planning to set aside 2 years will no doubt impact your goals if/when that changes. I'm currently doing research in neuro imaging which will likely get me published. If I have to go back for NS I will have to give that up and put my grad school plans on hold

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 28 Dec 2011 9:28 pm

hkslegends wrote:My question is what is the likely outcome? Is there a possibly that the issue can be resolved without significant penalty, or is it likely that I will still have to serve NS. We have been contacting MINDEF and so far they've requested my biography. Other than that, I haven't really heard anything from them.

The odds are, if you turn yourself in you will be fined and you will still have to do NS. After that, you will probably be allowed to renounce. Unfortunately, at your age, you are able to do NS with no problem (my son is currently in the Navy here and he's 22). The longer you leave it, the more likelihood of a jail term as well, should you decide to return. Remember, if you don't, it doesn't matter how famous you become in your medical research, you will not be able to come back to Singapore even if a hospital offers you the moon. Something to think about. And, with the advances in technology, you may well not even be able to transit Singapore in the future. Some sobering thoughts, yeah? You let it lie dormant at your own peril.


For the record, it's not that I'm scared to serve NS, it's just that it will be very disruptive to my life. Growing up without planning to set aside 2 years will no doubt impact your goals if/when that changes. I'm currently doing research in neuro imaging which will likely get me published. If I have to go back for NS I will have to give that up and put my grad school plans on hold

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Postby hkslegends » Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:21 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
hkslegends wrote:My question is what is the likely outcome? Is there a possibly that the issue can be resolved without significant penalty, or is it likely that I will still have to serve NS. We have been contacting MINDEF and so far they've requested my biography. Other than that, I haven't really heard anything from them.

The odds are, if you turn yourself in you will be fined and you will still have to do NS. After that, you will probably be allowed to renounce. Unfortunately, at your age, you are able to do NS with no problem (my son is currently in the Navy here and he's 22). The longer you leave it, the more likelihood of a jail term as well, should you decide to return. Remember, if you don't, it doesn't matter how famous you become in your medical research, you will not be able to come back to Singapore even if a hospital offers you the moon. Something to think about. And, with the advances in technology, you may well not even be able to transit Singapore in the future. Some sobering thoughts, yeah? You let it lie dormant at your own peril.


For the record, it's not that I'm scared to serve NS, it's just that it will be very disruptive to my life. Growing up without planning to set aside 2 years will no doubt impact your goals if/when that changes. I'm currently doing research in neuro imaging which will likely get me published. If I have to go back for NS I will have to give that up and put my grad school plans on hold


Thanks. We're trying to get it taken care of as quickly as possible, though I'm not exactly sure how long the charges have been there for. Two things i should mention though that are somewhat interesting:
1) They said they would like to interview me and asked if it was possible. At the time I was still in school so it wasn't so I did not come in
2) They said that I am free to visit Sg since I have a US passport
Both sound iffy, since I've heard from many people that it is likely that I will be out in a DB the minute I step in

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Postby hkslegends » Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:36 am

klchew wrote:Hi MS, been reading your posts here and its been very informative. Wonder if you can answer some queries that I have about NS. I'm a Malaysian and working in Singapore for some time now. Been thinking about applying for PR but my wife worries about the impact of NS on our son who's 12 this year. I have no problems about NS because I think military training helps to mature a person, fast. My son is ok about it too.

Would it be better for my son to do his NS first before going to university (UK or US)? My idea would be for him to complete his NS in order that he can concentrate on his university studies without interruption and continuing later to postgraduate studies or professional qualifications. Or do you think that he should come back after completing his university studies to do his NS and than go on to do his further studies?

Would the fact that I was a former senior officer with the Malaysian army impact my son if he were to do his NS? Would they put him in a soft unit or treat him as any other NS?

Thank you.


Just from a student's perspective - I would rather have done NS first, then college second. I'm in a similar situation where I might end up doing NS. Long story, but I already finished college and will be looking to apply to grad school within the next year or two. If I do have to do NS, it will be quite disruptive to my plans. Of course, ask your son, but personally I think it's better to do NS first so he won't have to worry about it after college


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