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National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

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Re: Got a response from CMB

Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 12 Oct 2011 7:05 am

cary28 wrote:
2. All male Singaporeans are required to fulfil their NS obligations under the Enlistment Act. As a Singapore citizen, *** is required to apply for exit permit (EP) at the age of 13 years old and to register for NS upon reaching the age of 16½ years old. He is also required for NS enlistment at the earliest opportunity after reaching the age of 18 years, unless he is granted deferment from NS for his overseas studies. We are enclosing the EP leaflet for your retention.

This means only for those that continue to study till tertiary with the approval to defer till 21 is granted. If you do not have that you cannot study in tertiary level either overseas or local Unis

We will assess his eligibility for NS deferment till his age of 21, pending renunciation of his SC when we have received his application. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My interpretation of this is that we can submit the application with our justification, then CMB will evaluate and possibly grant a deferment until 21; at which time my son will have to renounce his Singapore citizenship to avoid serving NS. The assumption is that this application will pre-determine his decision to renounce, so he won't have the option to retain his Singapore citizenship upon reaching 21 if he choose to serve NS.

[color=blue]Wrong, you are granted deferment till 21 if you have followed the steps by Kraikk.Upon reaching 21 he has to renounce his SG citizenship either at the SG Embassy or requesting renounce paper from ICA where he needs to fill up and return. The instructions are all there to follow. If he failed or ignore by the turn of 22, he will cease to be a SG Citizen . Future complication might arise for e.g entering SG, gaining employment here. Hence it is wise to do it properly at 21
[/color]
I don't know if I'm reading more into this, but my assumption is that we won't need to post a bond if this application is approved; since this will "bypass" the standard procedure of registering at 16.5 for NS and serving at 18, as he will be granted deferment until 21.

[b]Correct once granted no need bond issue but he still needs to register for NS at the age of 16 1/2 but this is just a formality and will be issued a new EP till 21. Henceforth you need to apply to defer till 21 asap once he turns 13


I would appreciate any feedback from those who have gone through this process. What reason would be viewed as "legitimate" from CMB's perspective, and likely secure their approval for the deferment?

The crux of this contentious issue is SG IC, SG PP, education after 13 yrs of age in SG, the family nucleus residence, citizenship must be foreign, income tax and fines cleared and anything to do with Gahmen agencies

Am I being naive in assuming we don't need to post a bond even if CMB approves the deferment until 21?

Yes this is correct once approve to defer till 21.

My son would not have the option of making his own choice wrt US or Singapore citizenship when he reaches 21, since we would be "renouncing" his Singapore citizenship by submitting this application. Does this sound correct, as I thought the idea was for the child to make the decision when he reaches 21.

Incorrect , if he changes his residency to SG, or decided to serve NS, he needs to inform CMPB asap and return to serve NS. Then on, at 21 renounce foreign citizenship

Thanks for your help.
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Re: Got a response from CMB

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 12 Oct 2011 7:12 am

cary28 wrote:I wrote to ICA & CMB regarding my situation, requesting for clarification and procedure to defer NS for a dual citizenship 13 yr old who plans to renounce his Singapore status when he reaches 21. Here is the response:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NATIONAL SERVICE DEFERMENT
Name, IC#

1. Please refer to our email dated 5 Oct 11 regarding your request for your son, *** to be granted deferment from his full-time National Service (NS) till his age of 21 to enable him to decide on his citizenship status.

2. All male Singaporeans are required to fulfil their NS obligations under the Enlistment Act. As a Singapore citizen, *** is required to apply for exit permit (EP) at the age of 13 years old and to register for NS upon reaching the age of 16½ years old. He is also required for NS enlistment at the earliest opportunity after reaching the age of 18 years, unless he is granted deferment from NS for his overseas studies. We are enclosing the EP leaflet for your retention.

3. Under the Singapore Constitution, Singapore citizens can only renounce their Singapore citizenship (SC) after reaching the age of 21 years. Those below 21 years can apply for NS deferment till 21 years pending renunciation of their Singapore citizenship.

4. You are required to let us know ***’s intention of his SC/the purpose of his NS deferment before we can process his case. If your intention is for your son, *** to renounce his SC at his age of 21 without serving his NS, we are enclosing the application forms for your completion. We will assess his eligibility for NS deferment till his age of 21, pending renunciation of his SC when we have received his application. Thank you and regards.

Yours sincerely,

MS TAN HEE CHOO

NSR BR, NSRMC

CENTRAL MANPOWER BASE

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My interpretation of this is that we can submit the application with our justification, then CMB will evaluate and possibly grant a deferment until 21; at which time my son will have to renounce his Singapore citizenship to avoid serving NS. The assumption is that this application will pre-determine his decision to renounce, so he won't have the option to retain his Singapore citizenship upon reaching 21 if he choose to serve NS.

I don't know if I'm reading more into this, but my assumption is that we won't need to post a bond if this application is approved; since this will "bypass" the standard procedure of registering at 16.5 for NS and serving at 18, as he will be granted deferment until 21.

It is possible the you will still either post bond or surety.


I would appreciate any feedback from those who have gone through this process. What reason would be viewed as "legitimate" from CMB's perspective, and likely secure their approval for the deferment? Am I being naive in assuming we don't need to post a bond even if CMB approves the deferment until 21?

Yes you are. Although the odds are that he will not have to. A lot will depend on whether or not you have already given up your citizenship or not. If you haven't then the odds are they will see it only as an NS dodge and not immigration as his Sinaporean Parent hasn't immigrated yet. This is going to be a key issue in their decision.

My son would not have the option of making his own choice wrt US or Singapore citizenship when he reaches 21, since we would be "renouncing" his Singapore citizenship by submitting this application. Does this sound correct, as I thought the idea was for the child to make the decision when he reaches 21. Thanks for your help.

Submitting the application is not renouncing. He can always back out, but as soon as he does, if he hasn't done his NS it will be an immediate callup. (e.g., one the spot). Other than than, there is nothing forcing him to renounce at 21 but as noted previously, if he hold dual citizenship he'll have to renounce one or the other
.


As long as you retain your citizenship, you put his NS avoidance in jeopardy.

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Postby cary28 » Wed, 12 Oct 2011 1:19 pm

I need to clarify that I am not a Singapore citizen or a PR, as I've never lived in Singapore other than on vacation. My wife is a Singapore citizen and has grown up in Singapore, but have left Singapore for quite some time. Our family lives and work in the US, and my son was born in the US. Thus, I'm not sure if my wife needs to renounce her Singapore status for my son's situation.

I can't respond to PM as I've not posted enough comments to qualify. I do have the form from CMPB, but I don't know how to upload that so others can see it.
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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 12 Oct 2011 1:53 pm

Yes you can PM now. to upload go to photobucket
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 12 Oct 2011 2:02 pm

cary28 wrote:I need to clarify that I am not a Singapore citizen or a PR, as I've never lived in Singapore other than on vacation. My wife is a Singapore citizen and has grown up in Singapore, but have left Singapore for quite some time. Our family lives and work in the US, and my son was born in the US. Thus, I'm not sure if my wife needs to renounce her Singapore status for my son's situation.

I can't respond to PM as I've not posted enough comments to qualify. I do have the form from CMPB, but I don't know how to upload that so others can see it.


Sorry about the comment regarding "your" nationality, but what I actually meant is as long as at least ONE parent is still a Singapore Citizen, my comment stands as before.

As you now have 5 posts your PM function should be fully operational.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 13 Oct 2011 3:21 am

cary28 wrote:I need to clarify that I am not a Singapore citizen or a PR, as I've never lived in Singapore other than on vacation. My wife is a Singapore citizen and has grown up in Singapore, but have left Singapore for quite some time. Our family lives and work in the US, and my son was born in the US. Thus, I'm not sure if my wife needs to renounce her Singapore status for my son's situation.

I can't respond to PM as I've not posted enough comments to qualify. I do have the form from CMPB, but I don't know how to upload that so others can see it.

c
@cary if you are reading this, this is how I upload doc or photos in my reply. You have to save your doc into your file. then on go to photo bucket. Once registered. you can upload the link from your file to photobucket
Open the photos or doc in your photobucket . , you will see several link http. cut and paste the link to your reply in this forum
Preview and you are good to go.
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NS Deferrment form

Postby cary28 » Tue, 18 Oct 2011 2:29 pm

Sorry, but I didn't want to register another photo site to upload the form. Is there another way to attach the form? Its in PDF format. Thanks.

[/img]
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 18 Oct 2011 4:21 pm

Just paste the Image URL of the photo on the photo site you are currently using into the message and then enclose it with the Img tags located in on the buttons above the message entry box.

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Delay for NS enlistment

Postby dad2011 » Sat, 22 Oct 2011 4:35 am

We truly appreciate if someone can help us with valuable advices.

Our family has 3 children with SG citizen status but all of us were born in oversea. We all moved to Australia since Feb 2009 and holding PR status here at this moment.

- My eldest son was 17 yrs and 9 months old and we intended to send him to Singapore to serve for NS after year 12 education since his EP was valid until end of Dec 2011 by S$75,000 guaranteed by us by expecting that he would only delay 2 years for NS and will be able to join the University here in Feb 2014 intake. He did not hold pink IC, his passport valid until Oct 2014 and he would be allowed to apply for Australia citizenship in Mar 2013.
Our expectation was wrong, CMPB advised that my son would only be scheduled for enlistment in Jun 2014 after completing health-screening in Dec 2011. Which means that my son would delay 3 years for his university study due to 7 months delay for enlistment. We feel that such delay was totally no consideration for a young boy during half way of his study and so appealed to the commander CMPB and approached to the MP for help but replies form CMPB was still unchanged. My son was also clearly disappointed to this situation and his morale for serving NS as a citizen was down.

Kindly advise us on the followings;
1) Please advise if my eldest son should go for NS and waste 3 years or we should pay S$75,000 deposit after selling our HDB flat which was still belong to us. We, as parents, willing to pay as necessary to save him from demoralising.
Will he still be NS defaulter if he did not serve for NS with S$75,000 paid? Can he enter to SG in future?
2) When and how should my 12 years old daughter renounce Singapore citizenship?
3) What should I do with my 10 years old son to avoid similar situation?
4) What should I and my wife do with this situation? Can my son case be affected to us? Should we renounce SG citizenship when possible? Should we sell our HDB flat at earliest?

Please forgive me if some of my questions were not appropriate to ask. We are in the helpless situation and any advise would be truly appreciated.
Many thanks,

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Re: Delay for NS enlistment

Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 22 Oct 2011 7:00 am

dad2011 wrote:Our family has 3 children with SG citizen status but all of us were born in oversea. We all moved to Australia since Feb 2009 and holding PR status here at this moment.

- My eldest son was 17 yrs and 9 months old and we intended to send him to Singapore to serve for NS after year 12 education since his EP was valid until end of Dec 2011 by S$75,000 guaranteed by us by expecting that he would only delay

Did CMPB allows you to pose this bond ?
Did CMPB allowd you to delay his NS liabilities after tertiary IN WRITING?


2 years for NS and will be able to join the University here in Feb 2014 intake. He did not hold pink IC, his passport valid until Oct 2014 and he would be allowed to apply for Australia citizenship in Mar 2013.

Did you assume or has proof that he is able to join the Uni then NS? I doubt so very much. I think you assume this is the case once you pose the bond. That bond was only meant for him to complete his A level or YR12. NS enlistment DOES NOT PERMIT deferment for tertiary education be it local or overseas.

Our expectation was wrong, CMPB advised that my son would only be scheduled for enlistment in Jun 2014 after completing health-screening in Dec 2011.

BINGO !!

Which means that my son would delay 3 years for his university study due to 7 months delay for enlistment. We feel that such delay was totally no consideration for a young boy during half way of his study and so appealed to the commander CMPB and approached to the MP for help but replies form CMPB was still unchanged. My son was also clearly disappointed to this situation and his morale for serving NS as a citizen was down.

You aint got no choice on this issue

Kindly advise us on the followings;
1) Please advise if my eldest son should go for NS and waste 3 years or we should pay S$75,000 deposit after selling our HDB flat which was still belong to us. We, as parents, willing to pay as necessary to save him from demoralising.

Does not matter if you pose the bond or not as the bond was meant for different purpose. ? NS liabilities still hangs on his head

Will he still be NS defaulter if he did not serve for NS with S$75,000 paid?

Yes and BIG BIG YES

Can he enter to SG in future?

Yes and he is classified as NS Defaulter which carries 3 years jail or $10K fine or both and still needs to serve NS after that sentence

2) When and how should my 12 years old daughter renounce Singapore citizenship?

21

3) What should I do with my 10 years old son to avoid similar situation?

Follow Kraikk sticky in the strictly speaking section


4) What should I and my wife do with this situation? Can my son case be affected to us? Should we renounce SG citizenship when possible? Should we sell our HDB flat at earliest?

Read my posts there alot of examples I have provided to many forumers here

Please forgive me if some of my questions were not appropriate to ask. We are in the helpless situation and any advise would be truly appreciated.
Many thanks,
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Re: Delay for NS enlistment

Postby dad2011 » Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:06 am

Mad Scientist wrote:
dad2011 wrote:Our family has 3 children with SG citizen status but all of us were born in oversea. We all moved to Australia since Feb 2009 and holding PR status here at this moment.

- My eldest son was 17 yrs and 9 months old and we intended to send him to Singapore to serve for NS after year 12 education since his EP was valid until end of Dec 2011 by S$75,000 guaranteed by us by expecting that he would only delay

Did CMPB allows you to pose this bond?
Thank you very much for very fast response and advices.
Two sureties and parents have signed S$75,000 bond by deed form for my son's current EP.


Did CMPB allowd you to delay his NS liabilities after tertiary IN WRITING?
No. They said he has to comback to Singapore for NS at the end of Nov 2011 after year 12 completion and we agreed on it.

2 years for NS and will be able to join the University here in Feb 2014 intake. He did not hold pink IC, his passport valid until Oct 2014 and he would be allowed to apply for Australia citizenship in Mar 2013.

Did you assume or has proof that he is able to join the Uni then NS? I doubt so very much. I think you assume this is the case once you pose the bond. That bond was only meant for him to complete his A level or YR12. NS enlistment DOES NOT PERMIT deferment for tertiary education be it local or overseas.
We understand the bond was only meant for YR12 completion and willing to serve NS for 2 years since we thought he would only need to request for 2 years admission deferment to his prospective university. The problem was that CMPB said they can only arrange enlistment for him in June 2012 after 7 months of his arrival to Singapore and which would make him to request 3 years admission deferment to his university instead of 2 years. my appeals to the commander and our MP for the earliest possible enlistment were turned down.

Our expectation was wrong, CMPB advised that my son would only be scheduled for enlistment in Jun 2014 after completing health-screening in Dec 2011.

BINGO !!

Which means that my son would delay 3 years for his university study due to 7 months delay for enlistment. We feel that such delay was totally no consideration for a young boy during half way of his study and so appealed to the commander CMPB and approached to the MP for help but replies form CMPB was still unchanged. My son was also clearly disappointed to this situation and his morale for serving NS as a citizen was down.

You aint got no choice on this issue

Kindly advise us on the followings;
1) Please advise if my eldest son should go for NS and waste 3 years or we should pay S$75,000 deposit after selling our HDB flat which was still belong to us. We, as parents, willing to pay as necessary to save him from demoralising.

Does not matter if you pose the bond or not as the bond was meant for different purpose. ? NS liabilities still hangs on his head
Do we still need to settle S$75,000 bond amount as he would be still NS defaulter?
Will his NS defaulter status affect to selling our HDB flat?

Will he still be NS defaulter if he did not serve for NS with S$75,000 paid?

Yes and BIG BIG YES

Can he enter to SG in future?

Yes and he is classified as NS Defaulter which carries 3 years jail or $10K fine or both and still needs to serve NS after that sentence

2) When and how should my 12 years old daughter renounce Singapore citizenship?

21

3) What should I do with my 10 years old son to avoid similar situation?

Follow Kraikk sticky in the strictly speaking section


4) What should I and my wife do with this situation? Can my son case be affected to us? Should we renounce SG citizenship when possible? Should we sell our HDB flat at earliest?

Read my posts there alot of examples I have provided to many forumers here

Please forgive me if some of my questions were not appropriate to ask. We are in the helpless situation and any advise would be truly appreciated.
Many thanks,

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Re: Delay for NS enlistment

Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:04 pm

[quote="dad2011"]
Thank you very much for very fast response and advices.
Two sureties and parents have signed S$75,000 bond by deed form for my son's current EP.


You got the Raw Deal on this one. It is usually either two sureties or post the bond


No. They said he has to comback to Singapore for NS at the end of Nov 2011 after year 12 completion and we agreed on it.

OK, I am right on this.

We understand the bond was only meant for YR12 completion and willing to serve NS for 2 years since we thought he would only need to request for 2 years admission deferment to his prospective university. The problem was that CMPB said they can only arrange enlistment for him in June 2012 after 7 months of his arrival to Singapore and which would make him to request 3 years admission deferment to his university instead of 2 years. my appeals to the commander and our MP for the earliest possible enlistment were turned down.

CMPB does not care about what happens to your son's education. You made that choice to have him educated in Ozzie hence this is your call and predicament. It is harsh but it has nothing to do with CMPB/Mindef. Should have carefully done a well thought out plan before you jump over to Ozzie. Your son situation is the result of your mistake. NS intake is fixed based on population census. I doubt you can delay his NS liabilities


Does not matter if you pose the bond or not as the bond was meant for different purpose. ? NS liabilities still hangs on his head

Do we still need to settle S$75,000 bond amount as he would be still NS defaulter?

If CMPB request you to pose the bond then you have to do it since you agreed to it and it is in black and white. Do not mess with them for the sake of your son's future

Will his NS defaulter status affect to selling our HDB flat?

No, it does not affect on the HDB sale but it will when you intend to renounce your SG citizenship. Please do remember SG Gahmen has very long memory

Will he still be NS defaulter if he did not serve for NS with S$75,000 paid?

If he does not return to serve, there goes your $75K bond and it will forfeited. However NS liabilities still hangs over his head.
OP, please understand you are only PR in Ozzie hence the protection accorded to you in Ozzie is at the request of SG Gahmen since you are holding SG PP. Your PR can be revoked at any time if you are found to be undesirable PR in Ozzie hence you will have to return to SG which you have no choice at all. Julian Gillard Gahmen will lose the next election and immigration policies will be revise and that you can bet on it.
Think wisely and carefully o your next move.
Your daughter should not have any issues as she has no NS liabilities on her head. If you wish to ditch the NS for your other son, you should get your Ozzie Citizenship asap before he turn 13 where he has to register EP . If you could renounce your SG citizenship first with your wife then your second son NS issue will be a breeze. Remember you cannot renounce your son SG citizenship while all of you are Ozzie PR . If Oz revoke your PRship, you will be stateless. You cannot only renounce your son SG citizenship as renounciation with NS liabilities will come under scrutiny then you will be at the end of deep sh*t on the bottomless pit
Go thru my posts with a tooth comb and let me know if you have any more questions
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desperate mom seeking help

Postby ccsaus » Sat, 29 Oct 2011 11:26 am

Hi, Kraikk, Mad Scientist and others,

I am a desperate mom seeking help here. In short,

My case:

- My son was born in Singapore as a foreigner. We were all foreigners.

- When my son was 6 years old, he got his Singapore passport together with his father. I became Singapore PR.

- When my son was 8 years old, I followed the request to renew his passport to the new biometric passport which will be expired when he is exactly 14years+5months old.

- When my son was 9 years old, my whole family migrated to the 3rd country.

- Now my son is 12 years old and he will get his 3rd country passport next year (after his 13th birthday but before his 14th birthday)

- My husband is still Singapore citizen and I am still Singapore PR. I will get the 3rd country passport together with my son next year.

My questions:

1. Does my son stand a chance to legally avoid NS?
2. If yes, then what are the best steps I should follow?
3. If yes, does that mean my husband must give up his Singapore citizenship, and I must give up my PR?

Thank you very much in advance.

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Re: desperate mom seeking help

Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 29 Oct 2011 3:11 pm

ccsaus wrote:Hi, Kraikk, Mad Scientist and others,

I am a desperate mom seeking help here. In short,

My case:

- My son was born in Singapore as a foreigner. We were all foreigners.

- When my son was 6 years old, he got his Singapore passport together with his father. I became Singapore PR.

- When my son was 8 years old, I followed the request to renew his passport to the new biometric passport which will be expired when he is exactly 14years+5months old.

- When my son was 9 years old, my whole family migrated to the 3rd country.

- Now my son is 12 years old and he will get his 3rd country passport next year (after his 13th birthday but before his 14th birthday)

- My husband is still Singapore citizen and I am still Singapore PR. I will get the 3rd country passport together with my son next year.

My questions:

1. Does my son stand a chance to legally avoid NS?
2. If yes, then what are the best steps I should follow?
3. If yes, does that mean my husband must give up his Singapore citizenship, and I must give up my PR?

Thank you very much in advance.


Before I can guide you. Where are you from and where you are currently living ?
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Re: desperate mom seeking help

Postby ccsaus » Sat, 29 Oct 2011 6:19 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:
Before I can guide you. Where are you from and where you are currently living ?


Thanks for the fast reply.
We are from PRC and in Oz now.


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