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National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 28 Apr 2011 9:44 am

Petales Soufflez! wrote:
I do not understand this bit though about parents having to renounce their SG citizenship to improve chances for the son's deferment from NS being approved. I told CMPB that I have no intention of renouncing my own SG citizenship as I plan to return home myself one day. Son grows up and will have his own life, what has that got to do with me? I am invited to overseas Singaporean events whether in Europe or in China and have always turned up with my entirely foreign family and they have always welcomed us with open arms. I have no doubt though that boy will not be able to work in Singapore after renouncing Singapore citizenship in the future, but we know about the gahmen's occasional pettiness and long memory. See it from their point of view, you chose to go somewhere else, you must think it's better elsewhere. You normally wouldn't take back a cheating spouse either, he has to wash his clothes in his new home. I only knock my head when I tell myself that I could have spared my boy this if I hadn't gotten him Singapore citizenship in the first place - but I had good intentions then and hadn't thought about NS before. Besides, he is half Singaporean and in principle I had wanted it reflected in his documents.

If anyone has concrete information about SG changing its laws and allowing dual citizenship say after boy has performed NS in the coming years, please inform me. My son is actually quite keen to do his NS if he can keep both his SG and French citizenships. I am the one choosing his citizenships for him at the moment fearing that he will not survive in SG not having lived and studied in the country. But he feels both French and Singaporean so we hope that this could be reflected in his citizenship documents.


For your first question, let me clarify, there is no ground rule on this but after countless help and assistance to those that need help, I would dare say 99.99999999999% that parents must renounce first before child can be granted deferment till 21 prior renounciation.
I do not know first hand of otherwise. Those that I have helped , gone thru the same beaten track. This is your call to make, remember renounciation is thru CAB ICA not CMPB nor Mindef But the forms that your son will fill in on the deferment till 21 will state parents and other sibling nationalities.

For dual citizenship , there was a white paper on this years back but it did not materialise to law. So my guess is as good as yours when this can happen. Maybe if Harry is no longer around it might turned out to be true but I do not see this happening anytime soon
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Have I mess my son life?

Postby SillyMum » Thu, 12 May 2011 4:12 pm

Hi, I am hoping that someone on the forum can help me.
I made the mistake of applying for a Singapore citizenship and passport for my son. My son (3 years old now) was born in the UK, Dad is British and son has British citizenship by birth. I applied for the Singapore stuff after getting the British passport. When I applied for the Singapore passport, I was only told by the Singapore High Commission in London, that he will need to decide which way to go at 11ish year old. What I didn't realize was the complication in renouncement procedure (exit permit and renouncing at 21 years old, etc). I only found out in a chance encounter with a lady in the Singapore high comm and reading the forum.
Son has only used his Singapore passport twice (to enter Singapore for holiday - each time for 2 weeks).
My son will be brought up in UK.
I have read on the forum somewhere that it is possible to renounce the Singapore citizenship for young child (something like 90% chance) before 21 years old. I would like to know how do I approach ICA so that I can increase my chance of that.

Many thanks.

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Re: Have I mess my son life?

Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 12 May 2011 6:55 pm

SillyMum wrote:Hi, I am hoping that someone on the forum can help me.
I made the mistake of applying for a Singapore citizenship and passport for my son. My son (3 years old now) was born in the UK, Dad is British and son has British citizenship by birth. I applied for the Singapore stuff after getting the British passport. When I applied for the Singapore passport, I was only told by the Singapore High Commission in London, that he will need to decide which way to go at 11ish year old. What I didn't realize was the complication in renouncement procedure (exit permit and renouncing at 21 years old, etc). I only found out in a chance encounter with a lady in the Singapore high comm and reading the forum.
Son has only used his Singapore passport twice (to enter Singapore for holiday - each time for 2 weeks).
My son will be brought up in UK.
I have read on the forum somewhere that it is possible to renounce the Singapore citizenship for young child (something like 90% chance) before 21 years old. I would like to know how do I approach ICA so that I can increase my chance of that.

Many thanks.


So..... Mom you are SGer ?

Have you decided to renounce SG Citizenship ?

Where are you guys now , MOM , DAD and SON ?

Any other sibling ?
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Postby SillyMum » Thu, 12 May 2011 7:45 pm

So..... Mom you are SGer ?
- Yes. Dad Is British born, but Singapore PR.

Have you decided to renounce SG Citizenship ?
- No. I would like to keep it if I can as I still have family ties to Singapore.

Where are you guys now , MOM , DAD and SON ?
- We are all in UK. Have been living here before my son was born. Son was born and raised in UK. Only been to Singapore for holiday (total - max 30 days in his life time). Unfortunately, I also did the same thing for my baby daughter (7 months old). I only realised all this when I spoke to a lady at Singapore High Comm when picking up my daughter Singapore passport. Funny thing is, when I enquire the High Comm, there was another Singapore lady with the same question. I think there is a lots of oversea Singaporean who are not fully aware of the ruling and are caught out.

If i had know i would not have applied for the Singapore passport. I guess I was just sentimental about my children having ties to Singapore, even though at the back of my mind, I know they will give up the Singapore citizenship. Guess I was just trying to prolong the inevitable

Aint I silly?

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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 13 May 2011 7:13 am

SillyMum wrote:So..... Mom you are SGer ?
- Yes. Dad Is British born, but Singapore PR.

Have you decided to renounce SG Citizenship ?
- No. I would like to keep it if I can as I still have family ties to Singapore.

Where are you guys now , MOM , DAD and SON ?
- We are all in UK. Have been living here before my son was born. Son was born and raised in UK. Only been to Singapore for holiday (total - max 30 days in his life time). Unfortunately, I also did the same thing for my baby daughter (7 months old). I only realised all this when I spoke to a lady at Singapore High Comm when picking up my daughter Singapore passport. Funny thing is, when I enquire the High Comm, there was another Singapore lady with the same question. I think there is a lots of oversea Singaporean who are not fully aware of the ruling and are caught out.

If i had know i would not have applied for the Singapore passport. I guess I was just sentimental about my children having ties to Singapore, even though at the back of my mind, I know they will give up the Singapore citizenship. Guess I was just trying to prolong the inevitable

Aint I silly?


OK Mum, you are not silly. You were only thinking for the best of your children.
You could try this as your son is only three years of age.

1. From now onwards, use the British PP to travel in and out of SG. If you need to stay longer that 3 months which is the stand BOG SVP for UK travellers , go to ICA 7 floor and get a Right of Entry Stamp on the British PP. It will have the similar benefits as a SG PP . Your child can live and be educated in SG like any other locals with that British PP till the age of 21. When you enter to SG after you have that Right of Entry Stamp on his PP, inform the Border Control if his privilege. It is usually stamped the back of the PP. There will be a VISA NO. that they will enter that number on the database.
2. Let the SG PP expires an do not renew it anymore or do the one below.
3. Return the SG PP and his SG Citizenship to ICA Kallang. Write a cover letter with returning address . States reasons why you wish to renounce SG PP. Get the British PP and UK citizenship copy and notarise it too. Explain explicitly the reasons
4. As he is under 5 years old chances of relinquishing his SG PP is easier. However I must state that ICA reviews every case on its individual merits.
5. You might want to consider for your daughter too.
6. Lastly, your hubby SPR and your SG citizenship might be a stumble block.
7. If you intend to keep your SG Citizenship then you have to do like all of us by applign exit permit when he tursn 13, register NS when he turns 16 and so on.
8. I have explained alot on these procedures on other threads. Go through it with a tooth comb.
9. You only do the above once you decide that your life is in UK not SG. If you have second thoughts than do like the rest of us
If you still in doubt throw a line and I will see what I can help
Good Luck
ms
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Postby SillyMum » Fri, 13 May 2011 3:52 pm

Thanks MS for the info, this has been helpful.

A few more questions.
We will most likely try to return the Singapore stuff back to ICA for both kids (son and daughter). The worst that can happen is they will return back to us and ask us to wait till kids are older, right? We are actually going back for holiday next month (kids will be travelling on British passport), is it easier for us to approach the ICA in person?

In the event, ica do take back my kids passport, is there any impact to renewing my husband SPR in future?

Many thanks.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 14 May 2011 3:36 am

SillyMum wrote:Thanks MS for the info, this has been helpful.

A few more questions.
We will most likely try to return the Singapore stuff back to ICA for both kids (son and daughter). The worst that can happen is they will return back to us and ask us to wait till kids are older, right? We are actually going back for holiday next month (kids will be travelling on British passport), is it easier for us to approach the ICA in person?

If you go in person , yes this will be the case/ One forumer was made a run around when he did that. OkLah I think is his nick. What I did for close friend of ours is via snail mail. You could 2 things, Wait till your visit to SG, get the stamped on your kids PP on their foreign PP. Return to UK then do the process.

In the event, ica do take back my kids passport, is there any impact to renewing my husband SPR in future?

Of course it will. Though they may not openly say it. If your hubby PR is up due say in a year times then do it by then. When we did it the child was under 5 years of age? The reasons we gave is very watertight. If you keep on returning to SG using SG PP, your chances is slim.
From my observation, having dual citizenship is OK but getting the SG PP is a killer as you can always use foreign PP to enter and to stay longer get the right of entry stamp. I do not understand why you need a SG PP if foreign PP provides you the same cover . Anyway this benefit last only up till 21. Moreover if you are not going to live in SG , do not apply for it.


Many thanks.
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Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 14 May 2011 11:37 am

I forgot to mention one thing, your hubby PR was under Family Ties I believe. It should not expire on the REP itself BUT my wife REP was not renewed for reason that I myself was puzzled but yet again we have not live in SG for a wee while

http://app.mfa.gov.sg/generator/asppage ... pplypr.asp
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Postby SillyMum » Mon, 16 May 2011 12:01 am

Hi MS,

Thank you very much for the info. I will discuss with my Hubby as to what he wants to do next. Long route vs renounce now.
Hopefully in 20 years the govt will be more liberal about dual citizenship.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 16 May 2011 4:31 am

SillyMum wrote:Hi MS,

Thank you very much for the info. I will discuss with my Hubby as to what he wants to do next. Long route vs renounce now.
Hopefully in 20 years the govt will be more liberal about dual citizenship.


Dual Citizenship policy was set in stone albeit the Constitution. You can change or amend the law but NOT THE COUNTRY'S CONSTITUTION.
Both options has it pros and cons and depends alot on ICA policy and the reviewing officer. I cannot tell you which way it will go as you have to decide for yourself and ICA will never divulge on its reason of merits. Never has and never will.
Long route will mean you have to keep tabs on the dates, Short route means "bye bye SG" for ever residing in SG.
Hard call and this has to be discuss with your family with long thoughts.
I believe you are not the only facing the face problem. That is why this forum is great in helping those in your situation. Let other knows. I will try to stay as long as I can in this forum. Good Luck
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Postby wlc » Wed, 18 May 2011 11:25 pm

Hi all

Reading the discussion thread on this forum has given me a lot of insight into the NS issue!

I am an Australian (with Singaporean PR), hubby is a Singaporean. My Singapore PR was obtained when I was working in Singapore (not by spouse relationship). Both our children (1 boy & 1 girl) were born in Singapore, hence they both have dual citizenships. Both our kids have Aussie passporta and they have an endorsement stamp (which I think is the Right of Entry pass) in their passports for them to come in and out of Singapore as a Singapore citizen. We are also expecting our 3rd child who will also be a boy, and we will also give him an Aussie passport with the endorsement stamp like our 1st 2 kids.

We are planning to move back to Melbourne next year, and by then my son would be 5yo, daughter 3yo, 3rd child less than 1yo. So far, the 'benefit's we have enjoyed from the govt for the 1st 2 kids are:
1. baby bonus
2. childcare subsidies
3. tax subsidies for myself as working mum (previously)

We do not plan to give the children Singapore passports & ICs (especially after having read the replies on this topic!)!

My questions are:
1. Do the above qualify as having enjoyed any 'socio benefits' from the govt?
2. Should we notify, and who do we notify when we leave Singapore for Melb?
3. Do we have to start applying for my son(s) exit permits and deferment of NS with intention of denunciation of Singapore citizenship the moment we leave?
4. Does my hubby have to give up his Singapore citizenship in order to get the items from question #3?
5. My Singapore PR will expire when we are in Melb. Should I renew my PR? And will that lower our chances on the deferment?

Thanks in advance to any of you who can help me with my queries. :)

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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 19 May 2011 4:37 am

I am having a field day today and a jolly mood. Bloody freezing in Christchurch and I cannot go to the CBD as they cordon the area I am going to work for some reason. So..... I will answer your ques while waiting in the car

wlc wrote:Hi all

We are planning to move back to Melbourne next year, and by then my son would be 5yo, daughter 3yo, 3rd child less than 1yo. So far, the 'benefit's we have enjoyed from the govt for the 1st 2 kids are:
1. baby bonus

( This baby bonus issue is quite recent , I think it kick start in early 2000. From what I gather, no, this is not an issue. Getting SG PP and IC is. Baby bonus is given the the parent. Socio Benefits enjoed by the child is meant for the child.)

2. childcare subsidies

(Again , Not to my information.that I have gathered)

3. tax subsidies for myself as working mum (previously)

(Again , NO)

We do not plan to give the children Singapore passports & ICs (especially after having read the replies on this topic!)!

(Well, you decide which is best for your kids)

My questions are:
1. Do the above qualify as having enjoyed any 'socio benefits' from the govt?

(If your ques are for the above, NO)

2. Should we notify, and who do we notify when we leave Singapore for Melb?

(Notify what and what for, your child is only 5 (eldest). Sorry you lost me here)

3. Do we have to start applying for my son(s) exit permits and deferment of NS with intention of denunciation of Singapore citizenship the moment we leave?

If you intent to apply EP , he has to turn 13 . Only by then the guideline sets in. If you intent to renounce his SG citizenship, do it now before he turn 5.
Having said that, you have acquired your PR by yourself hence your children albeit son is 2nd GEN PR and you only need to acquire PR or LTSVP for him . Why didn't you go by this route ? Much easier and hassle free
If you intent to renounce SG citizenship, why did you apply for one in the first place ? Puzzling very puzzling...


4. Does my hubby have to give up his Singapore citizenship in order to get the items from question #3?

Depends, and all cases is being reviewd on its own merits. Chances very good if you do it NOW without hubby renouncing SG citizenship

5. My Singapore PR will expire when we are in Melb. Should I renew my PR? And will that lower our chances on the deferment?

Your PR does not expire, your REP does as yo acquire it on your own NOT thru family ties. What do you want to do with your kids. serve the NS or not ? Very confusing to read between the lines

Thanks in advance to any of you who can help me with my queries. :)
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Postby wlc » Thu, 19 May 2011 10:25 am

Thanks MS for your prompt response! Let me clarify some of your puzzling thoughts on my case. :)

My hubby is born and bred in Singapore, hence our kids were given Singapore citizenship at birth (as I understand, we did not have a choice whether to accept it or not, or rather was not asked, just given at birth registration).

Below are clarifications to your responses from my questions:
2. Should we notify, and who do we notify when we leave Singapore for Melb?
(Notify what and what for, your child is only 5 (eldest). Sorry you lost me here)
Was told that we should notify CMPB/Mindef that we are migrating, this is probably more so for my hubby 'cos he's SGPrean, and that we also have a son that is SGPrean (even though he's not 13 yet)


3. Do we have to start applying for my son(s) exit permits and deferment of NS with intention of denunciation of Singapore citizenship the moment we leave?

If you intent to apply EP , he has to turn 13 . Only by then the guideline sets in. If you intent to renounce his SG citizenship, do it now before he turn 5.
Having said that, you have acquired your PR by yourself hence your children albeit son is 2nd GEN PR and you only need to acquire PR or LTSVP for him . Why didn't you go by this route ? Much easier and hassle free
If you intent to renounce SG citizenship, why did you apply for one in the first place ? Puzzling very puzzling...


Actually, if I was given the choice, I would have gone to apply the LTSVP/PR for him, but because my hubby is SGPrean, that makes my son SGPrean at birth (as wat I mentioned above). Are you saying, even though my hubby is SGPrean, we could have decided for my son NOT to be SGPrean at birth? hmm.. interesting thought, if that was the case.. maybe I should ring up ICA to chk on this option.. :)

4. Does my hubby have to give up his Singapore citizenship in order to get the items from question #3?

Depends, and all cases is being reviewd on its own merits. Chances very good if you do it NOW without hubby renouncing SG citizenship
Yeah, as I understand, it's all case by case.. sigh.. no hard and fast rule on this unfortunately.. but if we renounce now, do we need to give evidence that we do not intend to come back, children will be schooling overseas, etc? 'Cos we are only going back to Melb next year, I'm just wondering if they wanted more evidence (like if we had gone back for many years already and then renounce just before he turns 13).. Am just worried if we try to renounce now, then they may reject and from what I read, if you get rejected first time, it's practically NIL chance of appealing..

5. My Singapore PR will expire when we are in Melb. Should I renew my PR? And will that lower our chances on the deferment?

Your PR does not expire, your REP does as yo acquire it on your own NOT thru family ties. What do you want to do with your kids. serve the NS or not ? Very confusing to read between the lines

hehe.. very sorry if I've confused you (or any of the readers).. What I'm aiming for is:
1. Not having my son(s) serve NS!
2. Hence, we want to denounce their Singapore citizenship now if possible.
3. If #2 doesn't work, then to apply for exit permit and deferment till 21 with intention to denounce Singapore citizenship and not having pay the hefty bond!
4. Having done #2 or/and #3, still being able to come back to Singapore for visits without being 'arrested' or worried about getting questioned/held back or even forbidden to enter Singapore!
5. We will only give up my hubby's Singapore citizenship as the last resort as he has family ties here!

Hope that clarifies things. Thanks again.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 19 May 2011 11:17 am

wlc wrote:2. You do not have to for kids as they are below 13 . For hubby if he is a NS Reservist , yes he mustas he has to serve the 13 year cycle till 40. He can leave for Ozzie and apply Exit Permit within three months of his departure. He can apply for ONE, THREE OR FIVE YEARS EP on line. Make sure apply for multiple trips

3. Yes it can be done. For your next child deliver in Ozzie then apply for LTSVP. Do not apply for dual citizenship if you are sure that you not going to reside here . If you do it here, you register your son not hubby as you can show proof of child is foreign. If hubby does that it will be automatically SGer. Hospital will issue BC or you can always go to ICA to clarify this

4. You have to do this when you are residing in Ozzie not here. It does not work that way. You have to supply acknowledgement of school attendance, OZ PP , citizenship. If you do it here , ICA officers will give you a run around and tell you to keep his SG PP
If you follow the protocol to the T , you should be alright.
5. That's the plan. You do know if you go down this route, your kids will not able to gain employment nor PR here in SG later in life. You may have to give your PR /REP status and even your hubby SG citizenship if they reject your application to renounce next year. If you are sure on this go for it but if you have second thoughts then wait till he is 13 then follow what Kraikk has wrote in this forum. For your unborn child if he is born in Ozzie he may gain employment in SG and even PR later in life.
Consider this carefully

Anyway here is food for thought

http://www.citizenship.gov.au/current/resumption/

Hope that clarifies things. Thanks again.[/color]
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NS Deferment

Postby OZ Mum » Wed, 15 Jun 2011 1:25 pm

Hi Forum Friends

I have been following up on all postings with regards to issues on NS deferment for SG male citizens. Generally I think I was able to grasp the whole idea of it however I might need some clarification.

I am residing in AUS and I have 2 boys aged 16 & 14 - as my older boy's exit permit due to expire in Nov 2011, so my hubby & I are planning to write in CMPB for deferment until 21 years of age for both of them.

I have renounced my SG-citizenship last year and my hubby's is now in the process of waiting for their response for his. The whole lot of us are now Aussies holding OZ passports. We have migrated here 7 years ago and unfortunatey I have renewed the boys' SG passports but they do not have any ICs. Does that mean they have 'utilised SG priviledges' and are eligible to serve NS?

I have spoken to CMPB personnel and all they could tell you is to submit application and they will consider. I have several friends tried but unsuccessful in their applications.

1, What are my chances of applying for their deferment in my case?
2. What points should I be considering when writing the letter of intent for the boys (so called the parents' consent to renounce their citizenship when reach 21 years of age)?
3. Should I take careful thoughts in penning the contents on the letter?
4. Do both parents' renounciation able to stand a better chance in the application?
5. Does returning the boys' passports to them helped in applying the deferment?

Hope to hear some helpful tips to assist my next course of action.

I sincerely appreciate and thankful in all contributions to my query.

Blessings


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