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National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

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Mad Scientist
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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 13 Sep 2010 9:51 am

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Postby GreatScientist » Mon, 13 Sep 2010 12:38 pm

@ MS

Thank for you comment again. Will likely not be bother with Mindef any more.
As what MM Lee said " once SG Talents stay overseas with a green card/ PR we will loose such professional, that is why MM did not rule out the dual citizenship for Singaporean but the NS issue must be solve FIRST. This is for PM LSL to decide. " WKS did mention this too but it will not happens within the next 3-5 years but later.

@ psycho

I fully agree with your view and will definitely make US my home, sorry to say there is nothing for me to look forward to in SG. BTW pls do not try visit SG with your name changed US pp. You will be caught n be in big time boy .

Good night both.

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Postby GreatScientist » Mon, 13 Sep 2010 1:15 pm

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Postby PsychoJet2 » Tue, 14 Sep 2010 4:12 am

Hmmm. . . just realized something interesting, but probably useless.

Looks like an NRIC/Pink card has to be registered at the age of 15, but before 16. How did I get registered for one when I was 13? I know I have one because I have seen it. Strange. Did that law changed recently to 15 or has it always been 15?

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 14 Sep 2010 4:32 am

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Conditions to renounce

Postby Kazazz98 » Wed, 13 Oct 2010 6:59 am

I have read with interest the various posts here regarding renunciation of citizenship. The fact is that despite what has been stated the requirements are not as clear-cut as some have suggested. Although there have been cases of people gaining deferment from National Service pending renunciation it is not as simple as following the instructions given here. For those that have gained deferment you have been very lucky but for the others once you have made an application and have had it rejected forget about trying to appeal, as you will never have it approved. The application for deferment is purely a lucky dip.

To those who wish to apply think twice before you do, the application is simply a form that enables CMPB to gain all the particulars of your son, this includes their foreign passport details. Remember this information is also passed onto ICA, so if you do default on NS you will still not be able to enter Singapore on your foreign passport and as such will be detained as a NS defaulter as soon as you enter.

As to the conditions that are required to renounce citizenship it has been mentioned many times in this forum that those who have emigrated at a young age and have not enjoyed substantial socio-economic benefits are allowed to renounce their citizenship without serving National Service.

This is not true. I refer you to the following emails I have received fro CMPB regarding this.

First of all you will get this generic response.

Dear Sir,

We have noted your queries, which relate primarily to the circumstances which a Singapore Citizen can renounce his citizenship. The policy regarding the renunciation of Singapore citizenship is governed by the following Articles in the Constitution: Article 128(1) states that a citizen of Singapore of or over the article 128(2)(b) further states that the Government may withhold such registration of declaration of renunciation if the person is subject to the Enlistment Act (Cap 93) unless he has discharged his liability for full-time service under section 12 of that Act or has complied with such conditions as may be determined by the Government.

Best regards.

Yours faithfully,

Ong York Chin(Mdm)
Manager, NS Resource Branch
Central Manpower Base


When asked as to the conditions…

Dear Sir,

We refer to your email dated 2 Aug 2010 regarding whether there are other conditions that must be met for allowing renounced the Singapore citizenship under Article 128.

Yes, there are other factors to take into consideration for applying renunciation of Singapore citizenship.

Best regards.


Yours faithfully,


Ong York Chin(Mdm)
Central Manpower Base


And again…

Dear Sir,

Please refer to your email below. There are many factors to take into consideration for application of deferment till 21 years old pending for citizenship renunciation. Thus I am unable to disclose them to you.

Best regards.

Yours faithfully,

Ong York Chin(Mdm)
Manager, NS Resource Branch
Central Manpower Base


Following up on this I emailed LTC Tan Ying, Commander CMPB, these are his replies…

Dear Sir

1. I refer to your query on the circumstances in which a Singapore citizen can renounce his citizenship. My officer, Ms Ong York Chin has corresponding with you on your queries.

2. National Service (NS) fulfills a critical need, which is the defence of Singapore. All male Singapore citizens are required to serve NS under the Enlistment Act. The policy regarding the renunciation of Singapore citizenship is governed by the following Articles in the Constitution: Article 128 (1) states that a citizen of Singapore of or over the age of 21 years may renounce his Singapore citizenship by a declaration registered with the Government. The article 128(2)(b) further states that the Government may withhold such registration of declaration of renunciation if the person is subject to the Enlistment Act(Cap 93) unless he has discharged his liability for full-time service under section 12 of that Act or has complied with such conditions as may be determined by the Government. Each application for renunciation is evaluated based on its circumstances.

3. I note that in the emails with CMPB thus far, you have not provided us with the name and detail of the person who wish to apply for renunciation of his Singapore citizenship. Hence, if you can provide us the detail of the individual, we can then better advise you on the case based on his circumstances.


Yours Sincerely,

LTC Tan Ying
Commander, CMPB

Dear Sir

Each case is assessed based on its circumstances. You have not provided us with the name and detail of the person who wish to apply for renunciation of his Singapore citizenship. Hence, if you can provide us the detail of the individual, we can then better advise you on the case based on his circumstances.


Yours Sincerely,

LTC Tan Ying
Commander, CMPB
Dear Sir

MINDEF has supported applications for renunciation over the years. Each case is assessed based on its circumstances. Hence, it will not be useful to state the various conditions or circumstances.

We can only advise if you provide the detail of the individual who wish to apply for renunciation.


LTC Tan Ying
Commander, CMPB


As you see they will not provide any details of the true conditions to renounce citizenship and take note they are only interested in obtaining your personal details.

If you wish to try and obtain this information feel free to email LTC Tan Ying, his email is Tan_Ying@mindef.gov.sg

If you are able to gain a different reply please post it here I would be very interested to see if anyone can obtain this information.

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Re: Conditions to renounce

Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 13 Oct 2010 8:19 am

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Conditions to renounce

Postby Kazazz98 » Wed, 13 Oct 2010 8:18 pm

What I have stated is only the facts and they are not misguided or misinformed as you suggest. I myself and others I know have taken the same steps that you have stated yet have been rejected. And in these cases both parents have renounced their citizenship and for others where one parent is a foreigner the other has renounced singapore citizenship. Yet despite meeting all the requirements and as you have put it ticked all the boxes the application is still rejected.

I am only pointing out that no matter what people should be aware that even if they follow the guide lines you have stated their application can and may be rejected.

Further to this CMPB will refuse to inform you why your aplication was rejected....so in other words you will never know why and they will not give you a right of reply to prove otherwsie.

I also want to make it very clear to you that I am not trying to ridicule anyone here and take offence to your suggestion that I am. I am only providing the facts that I feel need to be shared so that others will be aware should they wish to apply and of the fact that should it be rejected they will have not right of appeal in the sence that CMPB will not provide any information as to why.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 13 Oct 2010 10:25 pm

Kazazz98

I am afraid you are not providing facts. You are providing ONLY anecdotal evidence as it pertains to you. Just like all the other information that we have collected. To claims they are facts is to say you know the inner workings and criteria that the gahmen uses to come to their determinations. You DO NOT know if you have ticked all the right boxes, as, by your own words, they do NOT tell you why you were rejected. Therefore I find your post presumptuous at best and deliberately misleading at worst. We are grateful for your information as we are not just looking for those who are successful, but, we reject the thought that you know it all. This would be especially so, as one who was rejected, you would naturally have a chip on your shouldr against the gahmen. So, what we would actually like to know is a lot more detail of the steps you took and when in order to see where the process may well have been derailed.

sms

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Re: Conditions to renounce

Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 14 Oct 2010 3:17 am

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Renouncation

Postby Kazazz98 » Fri, 15 Oct 2010 9:29 am

Sundaymorningstaple

What I have stated pertains to the conditions under which one may renounce citizenship and what I have said is the FACTS. It is clear that you have missed the point of what I have said. I am only pointing out that if you do apply and have your application rejected CMPB will not give you any information as to why or provide you with any reason and as such deny you the right of reply to show otherwise.

Also the point is that if you do wish to try and find out the conditions to renounce before you apply CMPB will not provide you with any information. This is a FACT!!!! And the emails from CMPB that I have posted prove that.

A number of people have fallen victim to the understanding that they can renounce citizenship in accordance with the conditions as stated by the Minister of Defence……“Only those who have emigrated at a young age and have not enjoyed substantial socio-economic benefits are allowed to renounce their citizenship without serving National Service”

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 18 Oct 2010 7:38 am

Kazazz98

I am not trying to make out I know everything as you have suggested. I have only provided information as to the conditions to renounce and the FACT that CMPB will not provide and or disclose any information as to the requirements.


Therefore, you have provided absolutely nothing to this thread at all. (other than pick at us) We've known that CMPB will not disclose anything for years and it's been stated time and time again. Do you have anything to add the is not already known?

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Re: Renouncation

Postby hmbay » Mon, 20 Dec 2010 3:11 pm

hi guys,

got to this website by chance, so i am new here. i browsed through the postings and if you may allow me to give some input.

as long as your son fall into anyone of the below, he'll be liable for national service:

1. left spore after age 9 (used to be 10)
2. ever extended Singapore passport (doesn't matter if you ever lived in Singapore)
3. hold spore i/c

if your son have a tick to any of the above, basically it is "mo tuck keng". (see real life example below). so if your son does not have a tick to the above and you doesn't want him to serve, then don't make him put a tick. after the tick, we all can talk until the cow comes home and we have had it for dinner, not a thing will change, your sons will have to serve, period.

apply for exit permit - have to be done by age 13. two of my friends found out the expensive way - sgd800. they thought it is age 15 1/2 (yes, it used to be). then 16 1/2 apply for deferment till age 21 that is provided no tick to any of the above, otherwise, have to serve after high school / college / poly. no deferment for tertiary education.

do note that the govt is not obliged to inform you update in any law changes, the onus is on you to find out - ignorance of law is no defence.

real life example: Singapore couple migrated (but remain as Singapore citizens), son born in new land, parents applied for spore citizenship & passport. extended passport after expiry, in the meanwhile, son has never lived in spore, other than on holidays. son was called up for ns. well, he didn't want to go back to serve. basically, what the parents have done is - migrate and live in another country, yet chained themselves to Singapore. i can't figure out why?

enlistment act: those who have only daughters, shouldn't be too happy yet. the act says able bodied sporeans are liable for ns, it did not say male only. btw, my niece received a letter from mindef asking if she wants to join saf. this has never happened before, am i right?

in summary, as long as your sons have a tick to any of the 3 above, just be prepared to serve. if there is no tick and you don't want him to serve, avoid even a single tick, and he'll be alright, provided the law doesn't change. those who have daughters, just keep your fingers crossed.

hope those information helps, and i stand corrected on any incorrect information.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 20 Dec 2010 3:33 pm

Thank you for reiterating once again, what Mad Scientist has already said here umpteen times already. It shows that you either read the threads here and are re-enforcing what has already been pointed out. OR you didn't bother to read anything and just saying what we've already pointed out numerous time across numerous threads. Either way, I guess we can't say it too much here, repetition seems to be the only thing that works with locals, but even that, sometimes doesn't seem possible either looking at how many times the courtesy campaign has fallen on deaf ears. :-|

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Questions about NS Requirement

Postby harps4heartlanders » Sun, 09 Jan 2011 4:36 pm

I hope someone can help me.... I have a friend who's Singaporean but married a US citizen. Their 3 sons were born in Singapore, but acquired American citizenship almost immediately. The ages of their sons are: 12, 10 and 8. They all attended public schools in Singapore, till the eldest boy completed his Pr 6 and got his PSLE results. While waiting for the results, the mother took her 3 sons to the States, with no intention of coming back to Singapore.

Question: Do the boys have to serve NS when they reach 18? Can they ever come back to Singapore for social visits during the intervening years before they turn 18? Do they need to furnish a bond?

Thanks.

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