I found this part interesting:therat wrote:A real case
http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/ns ... onths-jail
Man jailed 1.5 months for evading NS for six years
He come back for NS after university studies.
Immediate question: what if no benefits and no connections? I thought they were pretty inflexible in cases of the defaulters regardless the benefits and the connections.The custodial threshold will generally be crossed when an overseas defaulter who has a “substantial connection” to Singapore remains overseas without a VEP for more than two years, he said.
In Chow’s case, he left Singapore after years of education, but his family resides here and he intended to do the same.
“He therefore has and will reap the benefits of Singapore citizenship and has, by delaying his NS obligations, violated the principles of equity and universality and undermined the fair share argument,” said Justice Chan.
Chewbacca wrote:Thanks for your prompt and informative replies. It's interesting the mention about "having benefited" from Singapore citizen privileges, that appears to be a key point
Yes, once child pass 13 years of age and applied for IC is considered as having benefit from socio-economic point
Going the other way now, I'd like to seek your opinion on the option of a complete exit strategy. Please correct where I have this wrong:
- sell HDB, as per normal, funds will first goto CPF where applicable and you also get the cash portion
Once you sell the house , all monies will go to CPF minus what is owed to HDB etc unless there is a cash portion outside the transaction. That part you have to talk to your agent in its intricacies. . it will stay there until you apply for renunciation. Once you have been approved, only then you can apply to release the fund to you once they have authenticate that you are the person concern.
Remember ICA has no involvement with CPF. So go to ICA for renounciation then CPF for your money
- which then brings about the issue of taking out your CPF
As per above
- if SG citizen exiting completely, I assume in most cases you can get 100% out? or are there conditions?
Yes,unless you have monies owed to Gahmen such as fines, duties etc and god know what. That is why it takes 6 weeks once you submit your renounciation docs to ICA
What happens if the other parent is M'sian on SgPR?
If SPR is under family ties, spouse will lose PR once the other half renunciation is approved hence PR needs to be return if not spouse applies by oneself then spouse gets to keep it. This guideline might change under family ties hence I suggest seek ICA clarification
- if SgPR is tied to spouse by marriage I assume this PR right would be revoked?
Yes as per above
- if revoked, can get CPF out 100% or does the M'sian rule still apply?
Not sure on this
- what's the "treatment" if M'sian spouse were to re-apply for economic PR in future? would Gov likely to "play punk" from historical cases?
God knows, they have the ball and the paddock to themselves
And on other minor issues, the case of bank accounts, what happens to them upon exit, can both parents hang on to their accounts? I assume yes but probably not for credit cards?
Nothing changes , you can still keep bank account , CC etc. ICA has no direct control on the management of your money. Keep your POSB account upon CPF verifies you and approves the release of your money, you get to choose to transfer to your foreign bank account or local. I choose the latter as it is easier and you can always return as a tourist and withdraw cash from local bank. No fuss. If overseas transfer will involve commission fees and proof of funds and with the terror threat things going on, your fund may subject to further scrutiny
I do not know on this part. My understanding from years ago living in Singapore it only caters for those properties that is private and only foreigners that are allowed to purchase. HDB never heard that before. Sorry I cannot help youMad Scientist wrote:Chewbacca wrote:Brilliantly replied. Understood all of that perfectly. Thank you very much.
Next area of concern looks further into the future after all is done and dusted:
- what if the parents (now classified as "foreigners") want to re-invest their CPF, which is assumed to have been released, into buying say... private property. Can or cannot? Any complications? And any "catchas" to watch out?
- Also I heard something about foreigners buying HDB properties???
When HK merged with China, there was a silly rumour going around that Singapore built HDB apartments so the HK refugees can be accommodated there, and in the process, a lot of money can be made. And in reality, when Chris Patten gave his speech and the Union Jack was lowered for the last time, not many Hong Kongers took the last flight out of Ibiza.Mad Scientist wrote:Chewbacca wrote:- Also I heard something about foreigners buying HDB properties???
I do not know on this part. My understanding from years ago living in Singapore it only caters for those properties that is private and only foreigners that are allowed to purchase. HDB never heard that before. Sorry I cannot help you
1. Do you intend to return to Singapore for any significant period of residence? If not then you should begin severing links. Your own SC, your CPF, your HDB. Not doing so implies you intend to return (with children) to Singapore.almond2009 wrote:Dear forum members, I have been reading up on all the posts on citizenship and NS issues on the forum, and realised that I'm in trouble with my child's future. This forum has been great help for people seeking advice. I think most of us end up on the wrong side of the government, not because we intentionally set out to play the system, but plans do change in life and we did not see far enough. I hope you can guide me out of my situation.
I'm a Singapore citizen living in the UK. My husband is a UK citizen and ex-PR who renounced PR before 18, hence he has no prospect of returning to Singapore. I have a daughter who was born in Singapore and she is a Singapore citizen. My daughter and I moved to the UK to join my husband in 2012. I have acquired UK PR, and I'm eligible for UK citizenship.
My son was born in the UK in 2015. He is a UK citizenship by birth. I registered him for Singapore citizenship after he was born, and as a result of it, he acquired a Singapore passport. At that point, I felt that he should be given a choice between UK and Singapore, and I also thought NS is good for young men (my view on this hasn't changed).
Fast forward 2 years, I'm now regretting deeply having registered him for Singapore citizenship, because of the uncertainties of the future and the government's vindictive attitude if he decides to renounces his citizenship without serving NS. Hence here are my questions:
(a) I read somewhere in some of the posts that it is possible to give up Singapore citizenship when one is young. I can't find anything on this on government websites, as every website says they can't renounce until 21. Do you know if this is possible and how can it be done? I would give anything to turn back the clock and reverse my decision to get Singapore citizenship for my son.
(b) I understand there are some protocols one can follow to seek deferment until 21 then renounce citizenship. However, I note that the family members must also cut off ties with Singapore. In order for the deferment to be successful, do I have to renounce Singapore citizenship too? How about my daughter? The reason I ask this is that my parents and my brother are all settled in Singapore, and I would still like to move back one day regardless of where my son or husband lives in the future. If I have to renounce Singapore citizenship, by what age of my son do I have to renounce?
(c) I read that some people have followed the protocols (e.g. left before 11, did not renew passport, did not get IC) and still not been granted deferment. What could be the reason for this? I just want to make sure I have not broken any of the requirements.
Sorry for the long post. Your advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
almond2009 wrote: My son was born in the UK in 2015. He is a UK citizenship by birth. I registered him for Singapore citizenship after he was born, and as a result of it, he acquired a Singapore passport.
So at this stage he holds this SG PP for three years ? yes
How many times did he use SG PP to travel to SG ?
(a) I read somewhere in some of the posts that it is possible to give up Singapore citizenship when one is young. I can't find anything on this on government websites, as every website says they can't renounce until 21. Do you know if this is possible and how can it be done?
Singapore Gahmen not vindictive , just protecting their own interest, I think kiasi ?
You cannot find some of these on the websites as it is a moving goalpost.
(b) I understand there are some protocols one can follow to seek deferment until 21 then renounce citizenship. However, I note that the family members must also cut off ties with Singapore. In order for the deferment to be successful, do I have to renounce Singapore citizenship too?
Oh , yes !!! Do that please.
How about my daughter?
Your daughter don't have to unless caught red handed. Even that just a fine and have to renounce one passport at that moment. NS liability does not hang on her but SG law does not permit dual citizenship after 21 therefore she is committing an offense if not renounce after 21
The reason I ask this is that my parents and my brother are all settled in Singapore, and I would still like to move back one day regardless of where my son or husband lives in the future.
You cannot have it both ways. This is a ONE WAY STREET. After you renounce, visit Singapore yes you can but regain PR or SG citizenship , good luck to you
If I have to renounce Singapore citizenship, by what age of my son do I have to renounce?
NOW
(c) I read that some people have followed the protocols (e.g. left before 11, did not renew passport, did not get IC) and still not been granted deferment. What could be the reason for this? I just want to make sure I have not broken any of the requirements.
Parent still SG citizen
Male Parent did not complete reservist 13 year cycle or obtain release letter from Mindef
Parent has outstanding fines, debt or issues with the gahmen
Maybe the gahmen just love you to bits and can't let go off you(kidding)
It is 98.999999999% impossible if the parent follow the steps and did not get deferment
1% belongs to white horse so no chance lah
On a serious note, what you read on the forum, the poster did not tell you the truth maybe half a truth
I have encountered this ad nauseum times, once the sh*t is in their face then they start to blame the gahmen,really ?
When I questioned them , mostly what they wrote is not true.
I know this as I followed the protocol , hell , I wrote the protocol and my big boys, now, renounced without any hitch
You have to understand there is no right or wrong .
If you want to do this, there's no turning back
Alternatively, let him do NS if he is smart enough as some of close friends are they complete their uni by 21 overseas, serve the NS and return back to overseas still holding dual passport well illegally of course . That's another kettle of fish to discuss
If your child is under 5, you can renounce but the onus is at the hands of the immigration officer hence this is hit and miss scenario. Some go it , others don't. I don't know the guidelines right now as it is a moving goalpost
Sorry for the long post. Your advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Mad Scientist wrote:almond2009 wrote: My son was born in the UK in 2015. He is a UK citizenship by birth. I registered him for Singapore citizenship after he was born, and as a result of it, he acquired a Singapore passport.
So at this stage he holds this SG PP for three years ? yes
How many times did he use SG PP to travel to SG ?
>> He has had his Singapore passport for 2 years, and used it to travel to SG once.
(a) I read somewhere in some of the posts that it is possible to give up Singapore citizenship when one is young. I can't find anything on this on government websites, as every website says they can't renounce until 21. Do you know if this is possible and how can it be done?
Singapore Gahmen not vindictive , just protecting their own interest, I think kiasi ?
You cannot find some of these on the websites as it is a moving goalpost.
(b) I understand there are some protocols one can follow to seek deferment until 21 then renounce citizenship. However, I note that the family members must also cut off ties with Singapore. In order for the deferment to be successful, do I have to renounce Singapore citizenship too?
Oh , yes !!! Do that please.
>> Unfortunately I can't do it now, because I have a HDB flat and my parents are living in it. They are not going to accept that I want to give up SC so that my son doesn't need to do NS. I understand I have to sell the flat, but it is going to take time to resolve within my family...
How about my daughter?
Your daughter don't have to unless caught red handed. Even that just a fine and have to renounce one passport at that moment. NS liability does not hang on her but SG law does not permit dual citizenship after 21 therefore she is committing an offense if not renounce after 21
The reason I ask this is that my parents and my brother are all settled in Singapore, and I would still like to move back one day regardless of where my son or husband lives in the future.
You cannot have it both ways. This is a ONE WAY STREET. After you renounce, visit Singapore yes you can but regain PR or SG citizenship , good luck to you
If I have to renounce Singapore citizenship, by what age of my son do I have to renounce?
NOW
>> I wish I could do it now. PNGMK's post suggests 18 is the maximum age. Can I leave it to 16 at least? That will give me time to sort out the HDB problem. Are there examples of people who manage to get deferment while their parents renounced SC relatively late?
(c) I read that some people have followed the protocols (e.g. left before 11, did not renew passport, did not get IC) and still not been granted deferment. What could be the reason for this? I just want to make sure I have not broken any of the requirements.
Parent still SG citizen
Male Parent did not complete reservist 13 year cycle or obtain release letter from Mindef
Parent has outstanding fines, debt or issues with the gahmen
Maybe the gahmen just love you to bits and can't let go off you(kidding)
It is 98.999999999% impossible if the parent follow the steps and did not get deferment
1% belongs to white horse so no chance lah
On a serious note, what you read on the forum, the poster did not tell you the truth maybe half a truth
I have encountered this ad nauseum times, once the sh*t is in their face then they start to blame the gahmen,really ?
When I questioned them , mostly what they wrote is not true.
I know this as I followed the protocol , hell , I wrote the protocol and my big boys, now, renounced without any hitch
You have to understand there is no right or wrong .
If you want to do this, there's no turning back
Alternatively, let him do NS if he is smart enough as some of close friends are they complete their uni by 21 overseas, serve the NS and return back to overseas still holding dual passport well illegally of course . That's another kettle of fish to discuss.
If your child is under 5, you can renounce but the onus is at the hands of the immigration officer hence this is hit and miss scenario. Some go it , others don't. I don't know the guidelines right now as it is a moving goalpost
>> It looks like this option is no longer available. Can someone share their experience of this?
Sorry for the long post. Your advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
My reference was based on a cross posting I linked. I personally advocate you follow MS's advice as he has made it through with renunciation for two children and I have not. What MS is saying is you cannot have it both ways; you cannot maintain significant elements of presence in Singapore and at the same time migrate away.Mad Scientist wrote:almond2009 wrote: >> I wish I could do it now. PNGMK's post suggests 18 is the maximum age. Can I leave it to 16 at least? That will give me time to sort out the HDB problem. Are there examples of people who manage to get deferment while their parents renounced SC relatively late?
Sorry, I cannot help you on this , please ask PNGMK to clarify what he meant. Not to my knowledge though
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