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Procedure for Deferment from NS - I've checked!

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Petales Soufflez!
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Procedure for Deferment from NS - I've checked!

Postby Petales Soufflez! » Thu, 24 Jul 2008 3:57 pm

I contacted CMPB recently as I have an almost 12-year old boy who has dual citizenship, but who has never held a Singapore NRIC, passport or attended school in Singapore.

CMPB advised that I can only apply for Deferment from NS for the boy after he turns 13. Of course I have to announce the boy's intention to renounce his Singapore citizenship at the age of 21 at the same time.

IF they grant the deferment, I will then have to apply for an exit permit for the boy if we do not live in Singapore. There will be no bond required in this case and the exit permit will be posted to our overseas address.

"NATIONAL SERVICE DEFERMENT

1. Please refer to your email dated 26 Jun 2008 regarding your request for your son to be granted deferment from National Service (NS) till his age of 21 years, pending the renunciation of his Singapore citizenship.

2. Under the Singapore Constitution, Singapore citizens may renounce their Singapore citizenship after reaching the age of 21. NS-liable males below 21 years old can apply for deferment from NS till 21 years of age, pending the renunciation of their Singapore citizenship. Any request for deferment can only be assessed if the NS-liable male is aged 13 years and above. As your son has yet to reach the age of 13, we are unable to process your request at this point in time.

3. We wish to remind you that all NS-liable persons aged 13 and above who have not completed full-time NS are required to have an Exit Permit if they wish to remain overseas for periods spanning three months or longer."

You know what they say, when in doubt - ask. I was under the impression before that that the thing to do would be to not let the child enter Singapore between the age of 13 and 21 (when he could then renounce his citizenship). Mistake - as this would mean staying away without exit permission and he would then become an NS defaulter. Not only would he not be able to renounce his Singapore citizenship without doing NS but he would be handcuffed etc upon arrival at the airport.

I must thank this forum for clearing some of the air and especially to SMS for his replies. Everyone has a different situation, the best thing to do is check with CMPB directly. They will not bite you and never asked me for my NRIC number etc during our exchange.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 24 Jul 2008 6:29 pm

Congratulations. I know that's a big weight off your mind. I really appreciating your posting back here the results that you have obtained. That will help a goodly number of our readers I'm sure (especially the lurkers who never register but do read looking for answers). There is always the one-offs but that will always be. I'm sure it's also a weight off your son's mind (but he doesn't really know the gravity of it probably as of yet.).

Anyway, that's really good news.

sms

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Postby Petales Soufflez! » Thu, 24 Jul 2008 7:37 pm

Actually my son was really unhappy in the past when we told him that he wouldn't be able to visit Singapore between the ages of 13 and 21. For some reason he really loves the country. In fact he's still in Singapore. He has decided to spend the whole 2 months of his Summer hols there and will fly back unaccompanied.
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Postby Saint » Thu, 24 Jul 2008 7:50 pm

That's great news and definitely useful information.

Maybe make it a sticky so it doesn't get lost of the first page eventually?

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Postby Plavt » Thu, 24 Jul 2008 8:43 pm

Saint wrote:
Maybe make it a sticky so it doesn't get lost of the first page eventually?


Good Idea! Done!

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Postby andy21 » Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:17 pm

Thanks Petales Soufflez! (and I do not at all agree with your optimistic and upbeat assessment on most things in this country!) and to the people like SMS and others on this forum in general.

My son will be born in October this year, and I have no intention at all of putting him in a position where he is compelled to perform national service for this country or be criminally barred from entry.

It is still a long way yet, but knowing what I have to do in time is very comforting. If the time comes and he decides that serving national service for this country is something he wishes to do, by all means.

As it turns out, my son (our first child) will be born in October this year, and I have been called up for reservist training in November. My pleas for a deferment have fallen on deaf ears. I would not like my son to have to face something similar.

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Postby Petales Soufflez! » Fri, 25 Jul 2008 9:33 pm

Andy21, if your son's arriving in October he could be a dreamy Libra like my eldest or a wonderful optimistic just-do-it Scorpio like me :D .

I do not know your reasons for being pessimistic about our country, but for myself, having lived thru both the good and bad in Singapore for 2 decades, and having spent another decade overseas (Europe, USA), I have come to really appreciate Singapore very much. Not just for the food or public transport, but the schools, yes, the government, the way of life...

Of course there is much to criticise about Singapore and we can certainly change for the better, but we've only been around for 4 decades, surely we have time to figure out these changes and make them happen. And not everybody shares the same vision of how the country should be in any case...

We cannot change the size of our country, we cannot change our past and how it has so far affected our present, but collectively we are shaping our future and nobody should ever give up. Singaporeans are an impatient lot, like my mom likes to say, want fresh and cheap, and then cry father cry mother when they don't get their way.

If Singapore would allow dual nationality I will send my son home to do his NS even if he should never live, study or work in the country. I agree that if we've grown up in Singapore and choose later to move somewhere else, then we should be asked to choose between Singapore citizenship and the new nationality. But when a child is born to parents who have different nationalities, he is shared from birth and should be allowed to keep both. Maybe one day we'll come to this, but in the meantime, my son who thus far has had no opportunity to live long term in Singapore will have to choose the nationality of the country in which he was born and bred.

My old JC friend just came out of the jungle and my brother will be in reservist in a few months. They look upon it as a break from routine and a chance for compulsory shaping up. And thanks to them we get stories about hauntings and plays get staged about NS etc. None of you is doing that for niente. You participate in culture. :P

I am sorry though to know that you may miss your son's birth. They could indeed be more flexible about it. After all we are not at war. Though I guess if they start making exceptions for one they'll have to work out exceptions for others. A friend of mine couldn't make it to his daughter's birth because he was in industrial negotiations that had implications on thousands of jobs and the unions couldn't care a sh*t about his role as a father and hubby. Eldest son didn't see his father at birth because the doctor was very sure the baby wouldn't come out yet and insisted that the guy return home to sleep. C'est la vie.

In any case CMPB may find a reason to reject NS deferment for my son. In which case the boy will just have to come back and serve NS. I do not worry about it at all. For all you know he may discover when he's there that he likes Singapore enough to give up his other nationality. I'm Singaporean, why should I not be happy if my son decides to be one too?

In fact, now I sometimes wonder if I'm not playing God by deciding for the boy that he should give up Singapore citizenship when he's 21. I am only going by the rationale that since he doesn't live in Singapore he wouldn't want to be Singaporean. And maybe since he's so lazy he wouldn't enjoy NS. Dilema dilema...
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Postby 888max » Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:03 pm

Petales Soufflez! wrote:

In fact, now I sometimes wonder if I'm not playing God by deciding for the boy that he should give up Singapore citizenship when he's 21. I am only going by the rationale that since he doesn't live in Singapore he wouldn't want to be Singaporean. And maybe since he's so lazy he wouldn't enjoy NS. Dilema dilema...



Don't be dilema.

Nothing has really change.

The final decision still lie on your son. When he turn 21yrs, he will ask to renounce either 1 citizenship. If he choose to be a s'poreon, all he has to do is to serve back 2yrs NS , that it. 8-)

Till now to 21yrs, he get to enjoy the best of 2 worlds from dual citizenships. :D


The best thing is that , those who choose to follow the procedure by
applying exit permit for their sons when they remain overseas, needn't have to fork out any surety bonds of $75k at all. 8-)

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Postby masterpiece » Thu, 14 Aug 2008 1:38 pm

Hello Petales Soufflez,

I think I have a similiar situation. We are Singaporean and my son (who's turned 11 this year) is a citizen. The difference would be you are already living overseas now and your son has no passport, attended school etc.

My plans are:

1) leave Singapore in next few months to work and have my son study overseas where I'll be. Plan is to continue living overseas until he does his degree studies at least
2) Defer him for NS until 21 years of age before leaving Singapore

I have not been able to get clear information whether I can defer him from NS until 21 years of age without having to pay the hefty bond. I understand the current requirement is that for issue of exit permit more than 3 months I will need to pay the bond. Can you help me understand if your exit permit for your son will stretch up to his age of 21 years and no bond is required ? Also did the CMPB say that you can only apply to defer only after he turns 13 and what is the procedure to do this ?

I'm hoping to gather as much information as i can and all help you can provide (you have already shed alot of useful information) will be appreciated.

Thanks !

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Postby Petales Soufflez! » Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:25 pm

Sorry Masterpiece for the late reply but I'm on holiday still and do not always feel the need to connect virtually.

From what I know, untill the age of 13 your boy will be able to leave Singapore without any need of an exit permit so your problem will only show up in 2 years. If you are overseas at that time, contact the CMPB a few weeks before the boy turns 13 for the procedure.

Since your boy has grown up etc in Singapore, you know for sure that they will allow you to defer NS but should the boy ever acquire another citizenship later on, he'll still have to serve NS before renouncing his Singapore citizenship.

In your situation, you will definitely have to post bond. Because bond is not required only when the child has never benefitted from Singapore economically etc and has at the moment when requesting deferment from NS made known his intention to renounce Singapore citizenship at the age of 21.

And somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not think that CMPB usually allows for NS deferment to the age of 21 for Singaporean boys liable for NS - especially not for further studies. They will usually convocate at the age of 16 and then you ask for deferment from NS to the age of 18 or 19 if the boy has to complete his A levels. I know of a Singaporean boy who has turned 18 and who's living in Italy being refused further deferment from NS recently. My cousin who moved to the USA when he was 9 returned to serve his NS when he was 18 and then returned to the USA after to enter University and so on.

Hope that helps.
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Postby Petales Soufflez! » Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:35 pm

I want to add that we talk about deferment from NS to the age of 21 simply because one has to be 21 before one can renounce one's Singapore citizenship.

Otherwise NS liability normally has to be discharged starting from the age of 16 if I remember correctly.

As such, from what I've been told, CMPB rarely allows anybody to defer from NS to beyond the age of 18.

But I could be wrong, I've yet to read the texts on this.
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Postby chopin_88 » Wed, 03 Sep 2008 6:27 am

hey do you think that an NS defaulter will be detained once he returns to singapore after a long time? answers plz :o :(

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 03 Sep 2008 6:20 pm

Most definitely.

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Postby chopin_88 » Wed, 03 Sep 2008 8:41 pm

even though another citizenship has been acquired?? which means 2 citizenships

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 03 Sep 2008 10:47 pm

Even more reason. Now you are breaking two laws. A deserter AND holding two different passports/citizenships after the age of 21. Both are illegal. Guess you need to go to Johor and call your family to come over there to see you like a lot of deserters do.


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