Singapore Expats Forum

Dealing with nasty US immigration

Discuss about the latest news & interesting topics, real life experience or other out of topic discussions with locals & expatriates in Singapore.

User avatar
Plavt
Director
Director
Posts: 4291
Joined: Wed, 18 May 2005
Location: United Kingdom

Postby Plavt » Thu, 19 Jun 2008 5:49 pm

Interesting the attitude of Americans to foreign workers when the US companies outsource so much work to India, China, South Africa and The Philippines. Wouldn't some of those workers be better off working in the US where they can learn the language assimilate with the culture better?

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34783
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 19 Jun 2008 5:58 pm

Plavt wrote:Interesting the attitude of Americans to foreign workers when the US companies outsource so much work to India, China, South Africa and The Philippines. Wouldn't some of those workers be better off working in the US where they can learn the language assimilate with the culture better?


What makes you think the would learn the language, culture or for that matter assimilate at all. They would stay in enclaves just like they do in the UK and US already. Ask virtually any Indian who as worked in the US in a large city how much interaction "outside of work" they have with none Indians. This is just an example. There are Chinese in San Francisco's Chinatown that can't speak a word of English.

User avatar
Plavt
Director
Director
Posts: 4291
Joined: Wed, 18 May 2005
Location: United Kingdom

Postby Plavt » Thu, 19 Jun 2008 6:44 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:What makes you think the would learn the language, culture or for that matter assimilate at all. They would stay in enclaves just like they do in the UK and US already. Ask virtually any Indian who as worked in the US in a large city how much interaction "outside of work" they have with none Indians. This is just an example. There are Chinese in San Francisco's Chinatown that can't speak a word of English.


That of course still happens in the UK but not to the extent it used to; for example we have had a Chinese and Italian community here for years and their offspring are of course UK nationals who have little association with their parents country of origin and freely mix and integrate with other nationals. The same is true of West Indians and even the relatively small Japanese community here is becoming easier to get along with. Your are however right about the Indian community and one or two others (certain members, certainly not all) who still forbid their daughters from marrying into any other community - a source of some friction sometimes with tragic consequences. :(
Last edited by Plavt on Fri, 20 Jun 2008 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:19 pm

Off topic sorry!
Last edited by ksl on Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

earthfriendly
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat, 20 Aug 2005

Postby earthfriendly » Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:46 pm

Strong Eagle wrote: Employers must be heavily penalized for employing illegals, and must pay prevailing wages if some sort of labor program is implemented. .


I don’t know how feasible that would be. May I say that the US economy will collapse without the illegal immigrants? I was shocked to learn that the labourers who built the housing complex I lived were all illegals. How do I know? My friends brother was one of them and the builder, a rather reputable one, do not check the status of the construction workers it hired. And I have since learnt that is the norm within the construction industry. The illegals keep pouring in for there is a demand for them in this country. From restaurant busboys to farm workers, housekeepers, landscape workers and janitors. I had asked the other women if they know whether their partime housekeepers were legal PRs covered by medical insurance, none had a clue. Like the Mexican president said (Fox?), the Mexicans work on jobs that Americans shun.

And not to mention our grocery, restaurant, housekeeping bills would shoot up if these jobs start paying decent wages. Whole Foods pays reasoanable and livable wages to its employee. However, they are not the norm and generally not as popular nor thriving like other supermarkets since they priced their produce higher. At the end of the day, it also boils down to consumer preferences and they demand low prices, resulting in cost cutting measures by the biz.

Unfortunately, in order to dampen prices in each country, there would exist an unclass willing to accept a lower wages. Reminds me of SG with its construction workers, maids and now, the service workers. In SG case, the govt tries to “manage”

User avatar
Global Citizen
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 675
Joined: Mon, 07 Mar 2005
Location: Still looking for Paradise

Postby Global Citizen » Fri, 20 Jun 2008 3:36 am

Excellent post EF!
One man's meat is another's poison.

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10833
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 20 Jun 2008 6:17 am

EF,

I agree with most everything in your post and it highlights why the immigration problem is so contentious. Is a 'permitted' underclass the way to go? While there is evidence that Americans 'shun' the jobs that illegals do there is also considerable evidence that wages for lower income earners (particularly blacks) in the same trades or labor areas, are also reduced.

I could say that you, like me, are middle to upper middle class folks who benefit from low wages in the form of cheaper (or larger) housing, cheaper food, cheaper lawn care, you name it. It could be said that you want to keep your cush benefits at the expense of someone else being able to earn minimum wage.

Singapore has gone down this road. Is this what the US should do?

earthfriendly
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat, 20 Aug 2005

Postby earthfriendly » Fri, 20 Jun 2008 9:31 am

Thanks GC,

SE, the intent of my post was to point out in order to make any significant dent in this illegal immigrant issue, people have to change their fundamental way of thinking and lifestyle. It is not isolated and takes an entire society to make that shift.

If more biz men adopt your way of thinking, America (or the developed world) today would not have been run by big businesses which virtually dictate how we live our lives. You may be aware of the HD DVD vs Blu Ray war and the final tipping point came when Walmart (one of the largest DVD retailer, read low pricing) endorses the latter and now, HD player owners are stuck with a machine that will become obsolete.

I don’t see how this trend will be reversing anytime soon. It will probably get worse before it gets better. My last hope was dashed when I read how Japan (a country that prides itself for being 100 % middle class, no doubt an exaggeration) was not immune to it either. Traditional values like “if you work hard and stay loyal to the company, the company will in turn take care of you“ has been eroded as workers start to see company pension and benefits being cut back, in order to meet global competition. This resulted in new underclass in itself, not to mention the deep sense of betrayal many felt, especially the seniors who practically devoted their entire lives to the company they work for.

And yes, SG once again live up to its Singapore Inc reputation by going down this road, much to the detriment of family and communal life. One reason why SG has been able to stay economically viable is due to deliberate crafting of such policies. What can I say? Unlike USA, which is big and resilent, SG lacks resources of any kind and vulnerable to the slightest external movement. It is their way of surviving in an unforgiving world.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest