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Ang Moh = Red Hair = Whitey, but does it = Rude?

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Postby Forks » Sun, 01 Jun 2008 10:53 am

I think "ang moh" might be the same as "gaijin" in japan, it can be derogatory but the tone and the context goes a long way to explaining what the user is meaning. Most of the time its just a word to indicate someone who isnt not part of the group using that language, neither negative or positive.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 01 Jun 2008 9:12 pm

The term 'angmoh' itself is pretty neutral by now and nothing to worry about unless you're the PC squad. It's the tone in which it's used that will tell whether it's used in affection or contempt. So all you angmohs can stop fussing over being 'angmoh'! :mrgreen:

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Postby durain » Sun, 01 Jun 2008 10:01 pm

with the political correctness, maybe one day we are not allow to use any words to identify races. so no more words such as englishman, chinese, indian, armenian, singaporean, taiwanese, etc.

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Postby banana » Mon, 02 Jun 2008 4:02 am

you realise how drawn out conversations will be if that happens?

"how was your weekend?"
"ok lah, went for supper with Bob"
"pigment challenged Bob?"
"yeah, he is so localised...the fellow of ethnic origins from the Indian subcontinent running the hawker stall actually knows him by name!"
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Postby Vaucluse » Mon, 02 Jun 2008 10:00 am

banana wrote:you realise how drawn out conversations will be if that happens?

"how was your weekend?"
"ok lah, went for supper with Bob"
"pigment challenged Bob?"
"yeah, he is so localised...the fellow of ethnic origins from the Indian subcontinent running the hawker stall actually knows him by name!"


:lol: How silly it will be if the PC-ness of the population reaches that stage.
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Postby zuluchief » Mon, 02 Jun 2008 3:46 pm

And whilst the local government insists on pigeon holing everyone......Chinese, Malay, Tamil, Other.......progress away from racism could be slow.

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Postby durain » Mon, 02 Jun 2008 8:44 pm

Vaucluse wrote:
banana wrote:you realise how drawn out conversations will be if that happens?

"how was your weekend?"
"ok lah, went for supper with Bob"
"pigment challenged Bob?"
"yeah, he is so localised...the fellow of ethnic origins from the Indian subcontinent running the hawker stall actually knows him by name!"


:lol: How silly it will be if the PC-ness of the population reaches that stage.


cant use colour either!!!

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Postby earthfriendly » Thu, 05 Jun 2008 9:12 am

Mr. just told me this and I find it hilarious albeit, abit insensitive. China has to put signs in English in preparation for the Olympics and one of them said "Welcome to our big nose friends", to that effect :o .

I am personally not familiar with this term but a white coworker, who had worked in China, told me Caucasians were also called "ta bi zi", which means big nose. And he was getting on my nerve whenever he wanted to practice his chinese and kept saying to me "I am ta bi zi" while making a hand sign with his palms trying to grab his nose. After the 5th time of him doing, I was like who care about the size of your nose. Size is not every everything. I was getting irritated and thought either he was bragging about his size or pulling my leg and was ready to punch him in his nose if he tried again. I did not know have appreciation for that term as it was not used in SG. I think this penchant to address a person by physical feature is getting out of hand. I wonder how welcome it makes their guests feel.

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Postby Superglide » Fri, 06 Jun 2008 3:40 pm

earthfriendly wrote:I wonder how welcome it makes their guests feel.


Don't worry EF, with the last few months anti China demonstrations and even physical abuse of the Olympic torch carriers in mind, I am afraid not many foreigners will visit the Beijing Olympics anyway.
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Postby cutiebutie » Fri, 06 Jun 2008 3:53 pm

Superglide wrote:
earthfriendly wrote:I wonder how welcome it makes their guests feel.


Don't worry EF, with the last few months anti China demonstrations and even physical abuse of the Olympic torch carriers in mind, I am afraid not many foreigners will visit the Beijing Olympics anyway.


Good, the fewer the better = less money in the despot's koffers.

China seems to be a case of not wanting to engage with the outside world unless it is on their terms only, so why bother?! :-|
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Postby EADG » Sun, 08 Jun 2008 2:23 am

earthfriendly wrote:I would not equate "Ang Moh" to "Chink". Latter is meant to be derogatory while former is not. They are not equivalent. "Chinese" is the proper tem in common usage for "Chink" whereas "Angmoh" is the accepted term for "Angmoh".... It is definitely not negative term.


I usually dislike hearing it directed at me unless in shared jest and from someone I know. Even then I find it borderline rude - I don't like nor understand the need to declare such obvious differences. It immediately dumbs down the conversation, and always struck me as being very provincial.

Maybe because where I come from everyone's different and that's the accepted norm, and people have more interesting things to talk about.

9 out of 10 times my respect for those who use it plummets when I hear it.

earthfriendly wrote:Although I myself do not find the term "Chink" offensive. It has a nice "ring" sound to it.


You should - where I come from it's on par with "Wop", "Spic", "Jap" and the N-word. Most people would never say these to someone's face, only hushed out of ear-shot or as the last words before fists fly.

It is only used derogatorily and usually viciously.

It's not about having a thick skin when it's purposely and antagonistically insensitive to the person it's being said to.
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Postby ksl » Sun, 08 Jun 2008 3:40 pm

I have to agree with Eadg!

Even though i was raised in quite a volatile working class area, with high rates of crime, I could never understand all the derogatory name calling, although i guess i have my mothers strict parental control, to thank for it!

Even when things are meant to be said in fun, i have always felt sad, that others have to resort to name calling, respect for others is a basic social rule, which has been totally ignored in the last 30 years.
What I often wonder about, is why the rules have broken down so quickly, TV, parental control, divorces, women breeding for financial gain, in the UK, and lack of bonding, or is it just irresponsibility! It's obvious the system in UK have failed the people in general for many years.

Although I do see the prime goals of government copying the USA, social system, and privatising all welfare, which I see effecting a great number of the working class.

Of course it is also naive to think that things will improve in my life time, but i can distinctly remember growing up, where respect was very common and we even called everyone by Mr & Mrs, and swearing on a bus, was never heard of. Today one risks being mobbed if attempting to ask someone to refrain from swearing in front of the children.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 08 Jun 2008 8:29 pm

earthfriendly wrote:I would not equate "Ang Moh" to "Chink". Latter is meant to be derogatory while former is not. They are not equivalent. "Chinese" is the proper tem in common usage for "Chink" whereas "Angmoh" is the accepted term for "Angmoh".


I beg to differ with you. "Angmoh" is not the accepted term for "Angmoh" is a "not" accepted term for "White Man" or "Westerner" or 'Caucasian". Any of which was be acceptable. Angmoh is not. Why is not okay to use the word "Chink"? How do you know if it is being used derogatorily? When using the word to refer to somebody (in their presence) and you don't use their given name but use the term Angmoh, it is a slur or insult.

If I were to call you a 'Chink' to your face, if you were Chinese, why would you consider it an insult? Maybe I wasn't intending it to be but just using it in a friendly tone? See what I mean. Most (not all) Caucasians do take offense at the term. It's only a select few that I'll accept it from.

Respect is a two-way street.

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Postby Petales Soufflez! » Mon, 09 Jun 2008 8:31 pm

In a way I agree with earthfriendly because I just realised that I do not know a "normal" word for European in dialect. If I know the person's nationality, I refer to him as French or English. If I speak of him in a general way, he's an Ang Moh. And if it would comfort you, I refer to my beloved French spouse as an ang moh (when I'm not using names). Sometimes, when people ask me if I've married a foreigner, I would say, "Yes, I've married a gwei." It does mean ghost but in most Chinese dialects ghost is a word almost like lah, we use it quite freely and directly even to people we love. Sei yan gwei...

You can always say "guakoklang" (person from overseas) in Hokkien or similar in Cantonese but I somehow find it more negative (maybe too neutral), plus it doesn't say if you're black or white, not to mention it's quite a mouthful. It really all depends on the tone that people use when they refer to you.

Like my mother refers to me as Fatty when she talks about me to other people. If someone tells me that, he would have one tooth less, but I knew that mom didn't mean any harm. Chinese people like to describe people visually and call them that, and even more so if they actually like you.

Chink we all know is really negative, and doesn't mean anything. If you can accept White Man you can accept Ang Moh because it just describes the colour of your hair. But like I've always said, actually not many "white people" are really white (not like some of the Japanese people, for example), most are really more pink. :P
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Postby Wind In My Hair » Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:26 pm

There is apparently an Angmoh - Chink divide over this issue. :devil:

(I'm with the Chinks, of course. :D )


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