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Ang Moh = Red Hair = Whitey, but does it = Rude?

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banana
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Postby banana » Mon, 07 Jul 2008 1:24 pm

^^ My case. I rest it.

EADG wrote:brother, I've always found myself in agreement with about 99% of what you post, and what you described is the conundrum

banana wrote: I have no problems with being called Chink by pretty much anyone (unless they were obviously being malicious and racist)...Hell sometimes I call white people nigga. It's meant to be ironic.


agree with the caveat that these are the only ways those words can be used - with well-placed irony between trusted friends where everyone is hip to the humor, or, when being intentionally and antagonistically racist in the ugliest way possible

there is no middle ground for words like these


mate, you're not wrong. There is no middle ground for the intent of the words. There is, however, a grey area in the circumstances of their use.

Often, you just know when a person is on the same wavelength and you're gonna be great friends. Sometimes though, the signal can be fuzzy and the only way to know is to test the waters.

Intentional racism aside, the second situation is probably where the most offense occurs. Of course it doesn't help when there are people who think they have a right to intervene when it isn't relevant to their person, thus adding fuel to fire. Or when the idea isn't thought through and the person testing the waters decides there is no need to explain nor apologise. People everywhere are guilty of this, not just Singaporeans saying "angmoh" or "Jap" or Westerners saying "Chink". The initial intention was good, they were just trying to build rapport. But somehow, the concept of personal responsibility got lost along the way.

This seems appropriate: Image
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Postby tengnp » Wed, 16 Jul 2008 8:23 am

Post delected due to hostility to local participation
Last edited by tengnp on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 16 Jul 2008 1:37 pm

Why? It's an Expat board. Why do we need imput from non-expats? We are the ones who are on the receiving end of the racial slurs, not you. You want to be included? Go to a US site in California an post it there (you'll get much the same results but in reverse order).

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Postby Vaucluse » Wed, 16 Jul 2008 2:37 pm

I'm not offended being called an Ang Moh, except when the people concerned know my name - just like Thais always referring to me as Farang despite knowing my name - especially my employees. Rude.

Chink? If I were Chinese I would thump anyone calling me that (provided they are smaller, in some way handicapped and preferably in a wheelchair)
......................................................

'nuff said Image

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Postby Petales Soufflez! » Thu, 24 Jul 2008 4:27 pm

I was in Singapore for 3 weeks and after this thread became a little more aware of this what-we-call-others thingy. Everywhere we went, people would stare at my children and exclaim : "Ang Mo Kia!" (Red Haired Children). Some went further and said "pah jeng" (cross breed - like for dogs). Was I offended? Not at all. More amused than anything. For they would usually continue by praising them for their beauty and offering them extra portions of food, for example. :D

And like I've said before, I refer to my own spouse as an ang moh.

I agree that if we know that a term is really offensive to the people we are refering to, we should try to avoid using it. But when it is a whole country using it - and usually absolutely without negative thought - if you choose to live here than you must learn to live with it. Unless we finance a national campaign to educate everyone about it, it wouldn't be easy eradicating it. Certainly there is a better use for national funds.

Ang Moh is also a term we use among ourselves. And if you speak dialect often, you'll tend to prefer using it to English words like foreigner. I've been alot everywhere on the island and while we have a well-educated and increasingly well-travelled population, the heartlands remain very local as I've discovered much to my (pleasant) surprise.

In any case, in my experience (now that I'm no longer very young), you take offense at what you want to be offended for. I've been thrown racist or insensitive remarks (and ang moh is very innocent in comparison :D ) in Europe and the USA in the past decade and I am honestly rarely offended because I usually just put it down to insensivity and a lack of education on the other's part. It has nothing to do with me. I know my worth. They didn't.
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Postby cutiebutie » Thu, 24 Jul 2008 4:37 pm

Petales Soufflez! wrote:...take offense at what you want to be offended for....

...I know my worth. They didn't....


Very, very well put. :D
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Postby Wind In My Hair » Thu, 24 Jul 2008 5:42 pm

cutiebutie wrote:
Petales Soufflez! wrote:...take offense at what you want to be offended for....

...I know my worth. They didn't....


Very, very well put. :D


A healthy dose of self-esteem and the ability to see the world from another's point of view. We need more people like you! If only people would stop feeling slighted, wronged and offended, wars would cease. Seriously.

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Postby QRM » Sat, 16 Aug 2008 10:48 am

Petales Soufflez! wrote:Hello? Is "Japs" a bad word? Not that I know of. I've always used it as an abbreviation. Aussies for Australians, Frenchies for French :P


There are many

Krauts for Germans
Frogs for French (Not frenchie that something you do behind the bike shed)
Poms or Limeys for the English

I think it all a thow back to the war times, I am half Japanese and I even say Jap restaurant, it all relative and has to be taken in context, if some one said lets go for a nice Jap meal, theres nothing wrong with that, but if its you f***ing yellow belly Jap, then I would say that has crossed the line.

Being of mixed race, sometimes the saying "crossbreed, half breed or half caste" is a bit grinding but again if its said totally innocently with no malice then it alright with me.

And it changes with times, before calling someone a negro was correct then it changed to coloured, then black, no its African American is there an African-european?

To me unless there's a particular reason to bring it up it doesn't matter where the person come from.

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Re: Ang Moh = Red Hair = Whitey, but does it = Rude?

Postby ElvinYeo » Sat, 23 Aug 2008 8:11 pm

Levikane wrote:So whats the deal with the term Ang Moh?

Is it just playful, is it rude or what? I am getting the feeling it might be like Aussies calling an Englishman a POM or used loosely like Banana.

I see some people throw the term round on these forums and have even seen it on tv.

Thoughts?


I think it is not rude. Ang mo simply means foreigner and that is not a racist remark :)

Take it easy.

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ang moh

Postby kenji77 » Thu, 28 Aug 2008 2:31 pm

Not really sure if its just a direct translation of Hokkien and if its deragatory. But it surely refers to a white skinned person.

But its not nice to use it actually, we can use the term Americans, English, etc....

Would you want to be called a chink in the US or Europe ? Doesn't sound nice right ?

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Postby Petales Soufflez! » Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:48 am

I was in Vernazza (Italy) last week and minding my own business when suddenly 2 old Italian men walking past me cried out "Chink Chang Chink".

I turned around and cried out in turn, "Pizza Pasta Casino Mafia" (casino = big mess), they were a little taken aback and then all of us started to laugh at the whole thing and carried on doing whatever we were doing in the first place.

I always say that you can say whatever you want about/to me - as long as I get the right to reply.
Je pense donc je suis. Le reste du temps, je ne suis qu'une fleur.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 07 Sep 2008 1:05 pm

Petales Soufflez! wrote:I always say that you can say whatever you want about/to me - as long as I get the right to reply.


I think you should return to Singapore and join the dominant political part and get elected. You have the "having the LAST word" down pat! :P

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Postby Petales Soufflez! » Sun, 07 Sep 2008 5:00 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Petales Soufflez! wrote:I always say that you can say whatever you want about/to me - as long as I get the right to reply.


I think you should return to Singapore and join the dominant political part and get elected. You have the "having the LAST word" down pat! :P


They wouldn't be able to work me out :P I'm a dark horse and at the same time I am pro-establishment.
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Postby EADG » Sun, 07 Sep 2008 11:14 pm

you called that one, SMS
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Postby hk203 » Wed, 10 Sep 2008 9:52 am

Petales Soufflez! wrote:I was in Vernazza (Italy) last week and minding my own business when suddenly 2 old Italian men walking past me cried out "Chink Chang Chink".

I turned around and cried out in turn, "Pizza Pasta Casino Mafia" (casino = big mess), they were a little taken aback and then all of us started to laugh at the whole thing and carried on doing whatever we were doing in the first place.

I always say that you can say whatever you want about/to me - as long as I get the right to reply.


Well, luckily you replied "Pizza Pasta Casino Mafia", not "Mavangkuro"!


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