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Postby banana » Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:51 am

:devil:


:lol:
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Postby kaseyma » Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:53 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:
banana wrote:Chocolate, while an energy food, has a relatively low glycemic index. Especially Cadbury Milk Chocolate. From memory, it's around 50. What that means is that the energy it gives out is slower, over a length of time and not explosive.

You just sold me chocolate, you advertising scum. :lol:

Try dark chocolate Ferrero Rocher (if you can get some).

Sinful (but with some anti-oxidants, so it's got to be good for you).
:)

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Postby ksl » Wed, 18 Jun 2008 3:24 am

Bloody heck! You are all right, I did the last post in my sleep :roll:

No competition here I'm afraid :wink: Apart from addadude that is :D Not been able to fault him yet, The gorilla again, i wouldn't have expected him to pickup on it, unless he was familiar, with cadbury chocolate and the background history, of which i had some idea about, having researched them years ago.

Racist nope afraid not, it's just a fact, I would probably find it very difficult to pick up the same pointers on an Asian advert, and I presume it is not easy for Asians to understand some of the signals sent. Like I had a problem understanding the beaver cartoon SE posted, didn't mean a thing to me, but I'm sure SMS picked up on it, we have to be in the environment to learn these things, just like local lingo and senses, the shake of the head meaning yes, when it looks like no! This is what I am getting at, with advertising, about knowing your audience. :)

Like the silly advert of Starhub, this bird is having her hair done, and the guy is rubbing her hair, and says something like well, you do it when we are watching football, what a crappy ad, that is!

SMS not biting on vinegar these days, I've actually got to learn to shut up, crikey I never used to be like this, those long posts are doing my head in too! :lol: I really put it down to boredom.

Banana I thought the case studies are quite useful, I recall doing a thesis on MARS chocolate about 20 years ago too, I still find case studies quite entertaining to read through.

Banana: I have no idea what you're trying to prove with the case study or the milk tray ad.
It was just a comparison of the change in direction onto a product of milk tray and what a man is expected to do for a woman, by seeing the advert, again pushing sales, of one product and not all products, the man, the risks and dangers he would take on, to get milk tray, for the woman, rather than a message on all products. :-|


Failure is an instrumental part of every success. Whether our life has been a triumph or tragedy can only be judged at its very end!

Explosive energy and glycemic index, is all relevant, Why you may ask!

High glycemic foods, are what give sugar spikes in the blood, they do not last long, this is why you become more tired quickly, hence chocolate, being an explosive food, for a much longer period, improving the explosive endurance of the individual or Gorilla in this case :wink: It's good you are learning about glycemic index, but don't get it mixed up with high and low energy, all foods are fuel, its the quality of the fuel that matters.

Chocolate which is released slowly into the blood stream, meaning the burning effiecency and quality is better, so you will not become tired so quickly than rice for example or other high glycemic foods. :wink:

But remember if you do not use this energy up, it will be stored as fat! If you are really interested, you can actually work out how long one piece of chocolate will last you, while exercising.

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Postby Addadude » Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:56 pm

Great! This discussion is back to being about advertising again!

Because of various global agency links I was informed about about the thinking involved in this commercial shortly after it was released.

Banana is spot on about the so-called subliminal colour messages going on in the ad: purple background, silver drum set representing the cadbury's packaging, the brown gorilla representing the chocolate.

The music was selected because of it ad's target audience: women in their late thirties to mid forties who would have fond memories of Phil Collin's "In The Air Tonight" from their school disco days.

All very intellectual indeed. There was obviously a big risk factor: this TVC (TV commercial) could very easily as flopped - there was no way to predict the response to it.

But then again, maybe it wasn't that big a risk. The production values are pretty minimal and there were only a few television spots bought. The biggest expense would have been the rights to the song. (But perhaps Phil needed the money...)

I'm sure that if it had flopped it would have quietly buried. But instead it was a wild success. Even scooping up the holiest of grails when it comes to advertising awards - a D&AD Black Pencil.

As I said, the acid test will be to see the next piece of work produced by the same creative team - or the next ad for Cadburys. I wonder if the creative team have found a way to extend this concept into a campaign?

And KSL, that association of the gorilla suddenly bursting into the drum solo with the instant energy provided by chocolate is a new one to me. Perhaps Fallon/Publicis London (the agency behind this TVC) should hire you!

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Postby ksl » Thu, 19 Jun 2008 1:56 pm

:) "just my imagination, runin away with me" Temptations 1971!

That's what you got a do babe, to be creative! Don't believe in love, just the illusions of it. Advertising is using all the senses, with common knowledge too. and Chocolate and Energy are married, the illusion is smashed when you get a bad tasting choco bar :wink: Maybe that was the fluke of it, even before Phil collins was on the scene, the choco energy bar, has a much longer history, that's why i could relate it to a market of 16 yr old, to grannies.

Chocolate has been targeting energy needs for along time, its not new by far, so many sports people around the world would connect with it too.

Have a look at the Mars bar from the eighties, makes you work rest and play. it was aimed at masculine and sporty types,

Choco and energy as been around since the 2nd world war days, because of the energy it gave for the soldiers, when food was short.

As an all-American brand, Hershey capitalizes on patriotism and loyalty. It has been the official chocolate of the American military since World War I, when Hershey Bars were included in soldiers' rations. Following the War, Hershey scientists developed a "subsistence" chocolate, essentially a high-energy bar, known as Ration D. These bars were mass-produced during World War II (one billion bars produced and distributed), while standard issue Hershey Bars were freely distributed by American soldiers on foreign shores. Production of the Kiss, on the other hand, was halted during World War II when the foil was needed for war production.

http://www.brandchannel.com/features_ef ... p?pf_id=71

I think probably all chocolate bars have hit on the energy idea at one time or another, it works, because it works, so I'm not really surprised the advert was a big hit. it's been 68 years since the war days, and like I said, all the British army used to get free bars in their rations too..hence the connection with no age limit, and a very wide audience, even for me, it hits a nostalgic spot, thinking of the days, driving through the minefields of the Libyan dessert, with a can of cadbury chocolate by my side, and when there isn't enough to go round, it becomes a valuable commodity :wink:

I guess the advertisers over looked the nostalgic effect it would have on people who suffered food rationing in the war time, and survived on cadbury chocolate too.

Also the fact alot of divorces have happend since 1981, In the air tonight is a reflection of Phil Collins anger and frustration of his relationship, like so many other master pieces, one can relate to the advert from many angles. For me nostalga, for others the music has other signals to send, of good or bad times, It's how we pick up, these signals and how we translate them to our own experiences, that makes a good advertisement. I like the fruit and nut best :wink:

Best to not narrow the field, in some circumstances but to think of advertising from a wider perspective of age groups, having first broken down the senses with tag words. to cover the age groups in my opinion, this way you can, assert a response from pictures, and music and the signals that are being sent out.

The eyes filter and so do the ears, so many will also miss the messages, only the nostalgic awkening from the older generation can be heard, energy is food, so for many athletes, young and old it's a good endurance food, the spectrum of the audience grows, with each signal picked up, So looking at an advert from an advertisers point of view, needs to be also followed by the book, quite often, this isn't the case, becasue it's impossible to remember the rules.

So yes i would say, the gorilla was a fluke, if they didn't follow the rules of the senses.
Last edited by ksl on Thu, 19 Jun 2008 3:21 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Postby earthfriendly » Thu, 19 Jun 2008 2:34 pm

ksl wrote:Having my wife sat beside me, I asked her to point out the rational thinking behind it, of which she also missed. But for westerners they know, that chocolate is energy giving, and quite often, school kids would always have a choco bar, with them in schools in the 60's. Not only that Choco bars are also a favourite for most military's around the world, for the deliverance of energy in a small pack



Have to agree with you. While growing up in SG, there was no such association. View mainly as a dessert to satisfy one's sweet tooth.

Like any biz model out there, advertising has to be regionalized in order to achieve the desired effect. Africa has a low literacy rate and people recognize the content of the product via pictures printed on the packaging. They probably get confused with the Gerber logo which features a cute chubby baby. Not to mention a study where a painting was presented to western vs chinese audience. Both groups would notice different things of the picture. It was a research conducted to understand the difference (if any) in brain function between people who use the chinese script (pictograghy in nature) and those who don't.

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Postby ksl » Thu, 19 Jun 2008 3:41 pm

earthfriendly wrote:
ksl wrote:Having my wife sat beside me, I asked her to point out the rational thinking behind it, of which she also missed. But for westerners they know, that chocolate is energy giving, and quite often, school kids would always have a choco bar, with them in schools in the 60's. Not only that Choco bars are also a favourite for most military's around the world, for the deliverance of energy in a small pack



Have to agree with you. While growing up in SG, there was no such association. View mainly as a dessert to satisfy one's sweet tooth.

Like any biz model out there, advertising has to be regionalized in order to achieve the desired effect. Africa has a low literacy rate and people recognize the content of the product via pictures printed on the packaging. They probably get confused with the Gerber logo which features a cute chubby baby. Not to mention a study where a painting was presented to western vs chinese audience. Both groups would notice different things of the picture. It was a research conducted to understand the difference (if any) in brain function between people who use the chinese script (pictograghy in nature) and those who don't.


Excellent example! Even a small Island like the UK, with its mix of race spread over regional areas, like Bradford, Wolverhampton and London would show statistical fallout, from the norm of cadbury sales, because of the cultural and regional taste, it takes generations if that, for a change to take place, so food and confection industry cater for tastes.

That is probably also why Chinese restaurants don't serve tractional Chinese food in the UK, they would have difficulty to change culture. The most interesting aspect of advertising for me, would be combining creativity with culture, and extending ones experience, that other cultures can share for the good.

Kind of an eccentric way of thinking, from my perspective, because i do odd things, like put crisps on bread, because i like them, not normal for British I don't think but many will try it, when they try it, they like it too, even my Chinese wife likes a crisp sandwich, with some cheese and raw onion.

I have the explorative instinct in my blood, whatever i do to make it better, or to just enjoy, that for me is what life is all about.

The psychology of the human mind is a serious part of the advertising although the depth of what should be employed, is never done, because most individuals rely on memory of what they found interesting and discard, what they didn't find interesting, that's why i would always suggest using a check list to ensure everything is covered that should be covered.

It's normally after the event, that we remember certain things, the brains of all race's see things differently, just like any artist expresses his own thoughts! being an advertiser is quite the opposite, he must capture the minds of others, from their experiences of the senses.

Understanding the body language is understanding the sales talk only if you are the same culture, a shake of my head instead of a nod, confirms a yes in some culture and a no in others, makes all the difference to some. Cultural characteristics need to be understood as well as taste in advertising to be an international advertiser or the ability to research the facts, traits and psychology of the intended target audience in my opinion.

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Postby banana » Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:49 pm

addadude, you mentioned that you hated the spot the first time you saw it. care to elaborate why?

I believe you are not alone in thinking so. If this ad were conceived in Singapore, it probably wouldn't have made it past the conference table. No, I lie. It could've been conceived in Singapore, but certainly not pitched here.
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Postby ksl » Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:30 am

banana wrote:addadude, you mentioned that you hated the spot the first time you saw it. care to elaborate why?

I believe you are not alone in thinking so. If this ad were conceived in Singapore, it probably wouldn't have made it past the conference table. No, I lie. It could've been conceived in Singapore, but certainly not pitched here.
No, I lie. It could've been conceived in Singapore, but certainly not pitched here,
Nicely put, I think addadude is from the UK, very good at what he does, but he may have missed the point at the first look, which is a good thing, we all continue to learn, and have too see things, through different eyes.

only when the blinkers are off, can we embrace all that we see, and attempt to get answers, to our questions, they maybe right, or maybe wrong, it doesn't matter, what matters is the creative thinking, in a logical manner. Because the advert must be sales related and targeted, to produce results I believe.

Quite a lot of people never understood it even in the UK, I was just reading quite a few critics blog spots, and it is the norm, when looking at advertising, that everyone may get different messages, or even nothing, but entertaining and fun to watch. Put the whole bunch on some weed, and it would be different again!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 20 Jun 2008 9:16 am

ksl wrote:
banana wrote: what matters is the creative thinking, in a logical manner.


:shock: Oxymoron?

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Postby Addadude » Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:15 pm

banana wrote:addadude, you mentioned that you hated the spot the first time you saw it. care to elaborate why?

I believe you are not alone in thinking so. If this ad were conceived in Singapore, it probably wouldn't have made it past the conference table. No, I lie. It could've been conceived in Singapore, but certainly not pitched here.


When I first saw this TVC I thought it was self-indulgent, meaningless twaddle. After watching it a few more times, despite my initial misgivings, I realised that there was indeed something more going on with it. Then of course it started enjoying all sorts of success and, most importantly, the client did extremely well out of it.

However, I do wonder whether I would still love it if it had proven to be a big flop...

The funny thing about this commercial is that so many creative directors (especially in Singapore) are trumpeting it as an example for us all - yet I am pretty sure that if THEY had been initially presented with this idea by any of their creative teams they would have rejected it without a second thought.

Who knows, maybe there are hundreds of cadbury's Gorillas being pitched internally in Singapore creative departments everyday...

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Postby ksl » Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:28 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
ksl wrote: what matters is the creative thinking, in a logical manner.


:shock: Oxymoron?


I understand the :???: but what i actually mean is, that the creative thoughts, must be adapted, to suit the principles of advertising, otherwise you come up with an exhibition piece, that communicates your own picture without the advertising principles. The advert is about product awareness and response.

addadude: I am pretty sure that if THEY had been initially presented with this idea by any of their creative teams they would have rejected it without a second thought
I would probably agree with you on this.

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Postby Addadude » Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:33 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
ksl wrote:what matters is the creative thinking, in a logical manner.


:shock: Oxymoron?


Funnily enough, some of the best creative thinking does indeed come from logical thought processes presented in a very unconventional way.

If I can show you a new way of thinking about something that at first suprises you but then actually makes a lot of sense to you, then there is a pretty good chance that I am doing something very creative.

A classic (and old) example of this was Volkswagon's "Think small" ad produced way back in the 60's. Until this ad appeared, emphasis on size (whether it was true or not) was the name of the game in car advertising. DDB couldn't very well hide the fact that the Volkswagon Beetle was a very small car. So instead they made a virtue of it. Later on they had another ad which didn't even show the car, just a photo of the Apollo moon lander with the headline, "It's ugly but it gets you there".

All very counter intuitive and seemingly illogical - until you really think about it... and then it all makes perfect sense.

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Postby ksl » Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:53 pm

Addadude wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
ksl wrote:what matters is the creative thinking, in a logical manner.


:shock: Oxymoron?


Funnily enough, some of the best creative thinking does indeed come from logical thought processes presented in a very unconventional way.

If I can show you a new way of thinking about something that at first suprises you but then actually makes a lot of sense to you, then there is a pretty good chance that I am doing something very creative.

A classic (and old) example of this was Volkswagon's "Think small" ad produced way back in the 60's. Until this ad appeared, emphasis on size (whether it was true or not) was the name of the game in car advertising. DDB couldn't very well hide the fact that the Volkswagon Beetle was a very small car. So instead they made a virtue of it. Later on they had another ad which didn't even show the car, just a photo of the Apollo moon lander with the headline, "It's ugly but it gets you there".

All very counter intuitive and seemingly illogical - until you really think about it... and then it all makes perfect sense.
Yes a good, well planned advert, which says it all about, the VW. That's why i believe in going by the book, and using tag lines preparation no matter what one does, is half the battle to a successful campaign, not that all campaigns are successful.

I also quite like adverts, that rebel, or are anti and provoking, because there is a market for it, although censorship maybe a problem.

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Postby banana » Fri, 20 Jun 2008 2:50 pm

Kinda like if you can accept advertising is not selling, then you can create ads that actually do ;)
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