Dual Citizenship

[sundaymorningstaple]

If you will go back and read my post carefully, you will see that is exactly what I said......

[JesseSFO1]

Thanks sundaymorningstaple, Sorry for all the questions. I really need to go home to see my elderly mom who might be going for a surgery.

She wants to meet her grandson for the first time too.

Do I apply the ESTA with my Singapore passport? Or US passport if I have one?

[sundaymorningstaple]

Your Singapore Passport (My son leaves Singapore on his Singapore passport complete with the ESTA even though he doesn't need it to enter the US as he enters the US with his US Passport. But he needs it to exit Singapore using his Singapore Passport so that Singapore knows he is eligible to enter the US as he's got his ESTA already.

[Tau Beta]

888max,
Sorry to have removed my original post but I wasn't happy about something I wrote. However part of Strong Eagle's and jpatokal's post may hold the answer;

http://www.singaporeexpats.com/forum/ftopic50072.html

Seems as I was suggesting, he should use his Singaporean passport and simply keep quiet about his US citizenship.

Wikipedia under the heading 'Dual Citizenship makes interesting reading though; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singaporea ... nality_law

Thanks for all the responses.

I am new to this. I am thinking of using the US passport for entry into Singapore because I assume I will need to use the US passport to re-enter the US later. The "green card" was returned to US authorities upon granting US citizenship, so can't use "green card" along with Singapore passport to gain entry back to US.

The US immigration will be thumbing through the US passport looking for a valid Singapore entry and exit stamp, won't they?

Will use valid Singapore passport if that works.

Thanks

Dual citizenships work this way for us:

Use Taiwan passport at the flight checkin in U.S.
Enter Taiwan using Taiwanese passpport.

Use U.S. passport at the flight checkin in Taiwan.
Enter U.S. using U.S. passport.

No one looks for exit-stamp.

As U.S citizen, you are required to leave and enter the U.S. using only U.S. passport. For us, Taiwan doesn't care which passport we enter if it's less than 30 days. If 30 days or more... we'll use Taiwan passport to enter. And... we're totally legal.

[JesseSFO1]

You have been very helpful. Thank you again

[leungp22]

Hi Taxico
I know this was posted some time back and I'm hoping you are still part of the forum.
Jut curious to know if you did appy for the singapore passport and if you declared your dual citizenship.

Also would be good to hear from anyone else who may have experience with this.

this reply is a little bit late - i've been busy...! i've been in singapore for the most part of 2010.

i currently have 2 passports. i personally know a few other people with two passports. i know one person with THREE passports. not all are male.

none of us declared having an alternative citizenship/travel document. my male friends have done their National Service. a few of them currently reside and work in singapore.

none of us have been dragged away by the authorities and caned by a burly prison warden.

mind you, it IS breaking the law, but i've done it with my eyes wide open.

i don't claim to be fully prepared for the consequence of being caught, but so far so good. i'd do it again (i'd probably have to, in a few years' time).

you pays yer moneys and you takes yer chances.

Hi all,

I am fishing for some thoughts/comments/auggestions here on my situation. Most importantly, I do not want to be breaking the laws of any country;
it's unthinkable to be living in constant fear of being caught especially if the reason for getting on the wrong side of the law is one's honest reluctance
to sever ties with one's birth country. That said, here are some of my details -

- I have fulfilled my SG full time NS obligations
- I obtained a foreign citizenship
- My current SG passport is still valid
- I still hold a valid NS Exit Permit

The SG law, constitution and passport/EP renewal procedures encompass, in more words than these, these situations -

(A) SG citizenship may be revoked if one were to obtain a foreign citizenship
(B) While renewing the SG passport, one needs to declare not having had acquired a foreign citizenship
(C) Annual NS Exit Permit renewal is for Overseas PR (as opposed to overseas citizenship)

Do these imply that -

(1) It is not illegal to have dual citizenship as a SG citizen

(2) I may travel to SG on my current valid SG passport, without let or hindrance, as I have not committed any offence against the Citizenship Act

(3) I ought not to renew my SG passport once it expires as it would be illegal based on (B) above; (not holding a valid SG passport does not imply being a non-Singaporean)

(4) After my SG passport expires, it would not be illegal to travel to SG with my foreign passport

(5) Would it be preferred to enter and leave SG with my foreign passport even now when my SG passport is still valid

(6) It would be necessary to withhold the truth (thus being illegal) on the NS Exit Permit renewal since technically one is overseas as a citizen and not as a PR

(7) Would it be possible to renew an Exit Permit with an expired and non-renewed SG passport

(8) Would it be advisable to renew the SG passport whilst declaring truthfully that one has obtained foreign citizenship

Even though the quoted OP has shared several anecdotes about not being caught when lying on the SG passport renewal form, I do not wish to take that route.
I don't want to lie in order to remain a Singaporean.

Your thoughts and suggestions are all worth more than S$0.02
Thanks in advance.
PL

[beppi]

As soon as the Singapore authorities get to know about your other citizenship, they will remove your Singaporean one.
This will happen when
- You fill the passport renewal form honestly
- You fill the exit permit renewal form honestly
- You enter Singapore with your foreign passport (name, birthdate and -place will give you away!)
- They get the information through any other channel

In addition, international law demands that citizens of a country must enter/exit with that country's passport (something to do with diplomatic jurisdiction).

[john_nyc_71]

I don't think it has to do with international law. Most countries (including Singapore, USA, Australia) have national laws that require their own citizens to enter using that country's passport. The UK, as far as I know, does not.

I don't know what the implications are if you do not renew your SG passport (but do not renounce your citizenship, so you are still a citizen) and enter SG using a foreign passport. The law does specify some kind of penalty, but I do not know if it is enforced, or if they even have the ability to check. (Birth in Singapore does not automatically confer citizenship, and furthermore there are Singaporeans and ex-Singaporeans born outside Singapore, so the place of birth on your foreign passport isn't an automatic indicator of whether you were formerly a Singapore or not.)

[beppi]

I don't think it has to do with international law. Most countries (including Singapore, USA, Australia) have national laws that require their own citizens to enter using that country's passport. The UK, as far as I know, does not.

Yes, it does have to do with international law.
I am not an expert (so others might be able to explain better), but what I understood is that you are always under diplomatic responsibility of the country's embassy whose passport you used to enter. But no foreign embassy is allowed responsibility for citizens of the host country, even if they have the embassy's citizenship as well. So, to prevent a situation where nobody is responsible for you, it is only allowed to enter a country you have citizenship of with that country's passport.

Birth in Singapore does not automatically confer citizenship, and furthermore there are Singaporeans and ex-Singaporeans born outside Singapore, so the place of birth on your foreign passport isn't an automatic indicator of whether you were formerly a Singapore or not.

Correct, but these are indications that most certainly warrant a closer look - and with all government databases connected nowadays it won"t take them long to find out if or if not you are also Singaporean.
I won't take that risk if I have something to hide!

[john_nyc_71]

The international law you are referring to what is commonly known as the "master nationality rule" which states that if you are citizen of a country and physically located in that country, then that country has the strongest claim on you. This usually means that if you are arrested etc, another country's diplomatic mission cannot provide assistance to you even if you are also a citizen of that other country.

This is certainly the inspiration for why many countries have a national law that requires citizens to use that country's passport (another reason is for immigration - it can get messy if dual citizens enter on a foreign passport and then take up employment for example), but the master nationality rule applies no matter what passport you use. A dual UK/US citizen is not entitled to consular representation from the US embassy while he is in the UK, even if he entered the UK on a US passport. Lots of people have been trapped by the misconception that entering on a foreign passport means they will be treated like a foreigner if they get into trouble.

[Mad Scientist]

I don't think it has to do with international law. Most countries (including Singapore, USA, Australia) have national laws that require their own citizens to enter using that country's passport. The UK, as far as I know, does not.

I don't know what the implications are if you do not renew your SG passport (but do not renounce your citizenship, so you are still a citizen) and enter SG using a foreign passport. The law does specify some kind of penalty, but I do not know if it is enforced, or if they even have the ability to check. (Birth in Singapore does not automatically confer citizenship, and furthermore there are Singaporeans and ex-Singaporeans born outside Singapore, so the place of birth on your foreign passport isn't an automatic indicator of whether you were formerly a Singapore or not.)

John

Many moons ago you posted the same thing and give your opinions basically there are not many that you gave other than " I do not know or something along these lines" For heaven sake if you do not know then just shut up. You sound like a very broken record to me. Do you know why ?
Those that I bolded for you is part of integrated COB on the PP. YES it is an indicator and yes, those who runs foul with the law do get penalize.
Hence I say again just go to a corner and suck your thumb cos you have no clue what you are talking about

[sundaymorningstaple]

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[caramel79]

Hi all
Im a newbie here with a huge dilemma..doubt it would be anything foreign to the expert lot of you here..
Ok so i currently hold a recently renewed SG passport(5 years left) and post renewing the SG passport applied for nz citizenship which i have in possession now. So basically it means i did not falsely declare on my renewal form for the SG passport. My question is, how do i enter SG if i was coming from australia (oh btw i am moving to melbourne in 2 months so will be there on a special category visa which is only for NZ citizens). Do i use my NZ passport when leaving melbourne and then when i enter SG i switch to my SG passport??
The when i leave SG do i use my SG passport and then at melbourne use my NZ passport?? Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

[sundaymorningstaple]

You leave Australia with the same passport you entered with. You enter Singapore with your Singapore Passport and you leave Singapore with your Singapore Passport.

[Mad Scientist]

Kiwis who enters Oz with Kiwi PP does not need to apply for Visa to enter OZ as long as you are person with good character. As SMS said you enter with SG PP into SG and vice versa. In OZ you have to show both NZ and SG PP although you submit only Kiwi PP for stamping. OZ border has the same system in US i.e flight manifest comes with alot of passengers details