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Dual Citizenship

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rojaksing
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Dual Citizenship

Postby rojaksing » Tue, 20 May 2008 7:08 pm

I wonder what the implications are for young men who have done their NS and leave for another country, such as UK or Australia etc, for further studies and take up citizenship of that country without renouncing his Singapore citizenship? Any one with such experience? I hear of ppl having multiple passports.....

Thanks.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 20 May 2008 8:47 pm

Once you come back to Singapore, if you are male and past your National Service callup you are considered a deserter with the likelihood of a jail sentence. If you renew your passport after receiving a foreign one and lie on the application question asking if you hold a passport in any other country, there is a hefty price for that as well.

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Postby Plavt » Tue, 20 May 2008 8:50 pm

Sms,
I think you need to re-read the OP's post he says;

for young men who have done their NS and leave for another country, :o

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 21 May 2008 8:57 am

My response was directed at both considerations. The first if they have not done NS and the second was general as Singapore does NOT allow dual citizenship (Legally) for any citizen above the age of 21. Therefore the detail about lying on the PP application renewal form.

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Postby taxico » Wed, 21 May 2008 12:54 pm

does anyone know of true stories of people being hauled off for lying on the application form? (about having no other citizenships)

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Postby xerces » Thu, 22 May 2008 7:27 am

taxico, it does not matter whether there have been previous cases of successful convictions for lying on the passport renewal form. What matters is that if you do it, you will have committed a criminal offence. Knowing how efficient Singapore is, getting caught would just be a matter of time. I would not tempt them, if I were you.

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Postby rojaksing » Thu, 22 May 2008 2:32 pm

Plavt wrote:Sms,
I think you need to re-read the OP's post he says;

for young men who have done their NS and leave for another country, :o



Yes, for young men who have done their due, and leave after NS for further studies/work...... being the pragmatic Singaporeans that we are, there are some who take on other passports for purely economic reasons. These are not deserters. And there are also those who are not NS liable - females - who hold multiple passports. Strictly speaking, they are committing an offence, and im sure the ever efficient Singapore government are aware.... perhaps its a case of 'closing one eye'? If forced to choose, many more will have to relunctantly cut ties. After all, home is where the heart is - family, friends, and food.

Just my 2c's worth.

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Postby jpatokal » Fri, 23 May 2008 1:58 am

xerces wrote:taxico, it does not matter whether there have been previous cases of successful convictions for lying on the passport renewal form. What matters is that if you do it, you will have committed a criminal offence. Knowing how efficient Singapore is, getting caught would just be a matter of time. I would not tempt them, if I were you.

And just how would they find out? Seriously. Governments do not share immigration or citizen registries with each other, so no, unless you go get yourself on Interpol's red alert list or something, they will not find out.

(Not that this makes it legal in Singapore, mind you.)
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Postby xerces » Fri, 23 May 2008 9:58 am

jpatokal wrote:And just how would they find out? Seriously. Governments do not share immigration or citizen registries with each other, so no, unless you go get yourself on Interpol's red alert list or something, they will not find out.

(Not that this makes it legal in Singapore, mind you.)


Well, for one, if such a person were to renounce his Singapore citizenship one day, ICA will be able to know when he actually obtained his foreign citizenship. That information would be available from the foreign citizenship certificate which must be submitted to ICA when applying to renounce Singapore citizenship. ICA can then check whether that person has ever applied for passport renewal since the date stated on the foreign citizenship certificate. If yes, and that person had declared falsely that he did not hold another passport at that time, bingo, game over. Application to renounce may be refused till they have prosecuted him for false declaration, and slapped a hefty fine and/or some jail time on him. If that person does not come back to Singapore to be prosecuted, he may have to live with the fact that he may never be able to step foot on Singapore soil ever again, including for transit. This could be a major inconvenience seeing as how Singapore is a major air hub for the region.

I think whether you get caught or not is a moot point. What is important is that you would have committed a felon, and are thus liable for prosecution. I don't think anyone would like to have such a stigma hang over him.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 23 May 2008 12:05 pm

xerces wrote:Well, for one, if such a person were to renounce his Singapore citizenship one day, ICA will be able to know when he actually obtained his foreign citizenship. That information would be available from the foreign citizenship certificate which must be submitted to ICA when applying to renounce Singapore citizenship.


Yes, but most other countries do not equire you to renounce citizenship formally. Example: I became a naturalized US citizen. I pledged an oath of allegiance to the US but was not required to renounce either my Canadian or UK citizenship. Later US Supreme Court rulings upheld the right of naturalized citizens to hold multiple passports.

I agree. It may not be legal but if you travel in and out of Singapore with your Singapore passport, no one will be the wiser that you have an additional passport.

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Postby jpatokal » Fri, 23 May 2008 11:55 pm

xerces wrote:
jpatokal wrote:And just how would they find out? Seriously. Governments do not share immigration or citizen registries with each other, so no, unless you go get yourself on Interpol's red alert list or something, they will not find out.


Well, for one, if such a person were to renounce his Singapore citizenship one day, ICA will be able to know when he actually obtained his foreign citizenship.

There's a classic Zen koan which involves a master whacking a student on a head with a stick whenever he complains that thinking about enlightenment is hard, but I'll just quote the punchline:

Well, don't do that, then.

Next :cool:
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Postby rojaksing » Sat, 24 May 2008 3:03 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
xerces wrote:Well, for one, if such a person were to renounce his Singapore citizenship one day, ICA will be able to know when he actually obtained his foreign citizenship. That information would be available from the foreign citizenship certificate which must be submitted to ICA when applying to renounce Singapore citizenship.


Yes, but most other countries do not equire you to renounce citizenship formally. Example: I became a naturalized US citizen. I pledged an oath of allegiance to the US but was not required to renounce either my Canadian or UK citizenship. Later US Supreme Court rulings upheld the right of naturalized citizens to hold multiple passports.

I agree. It may not be legal but if you travel in and out of Singapore with your Singapore passport, no one will be the wiser that you have an additional passport.



Thanks, Strong Eagle. Thats exactly what I was looking for - ppl with real experience of multiple passports. Are there anyone else out there to share their experience and first hand knowledge. There must be many out there in such situations.... yet, in view of the Singapore government's official stand on citizenship, the higher-ups must be closely an eye? If they do come down hard, its not difficult to guess how many more will leave, not by choice but of last resort. It really is the issue of Dual Citizenship (for convenience and economic reasons) and not one of loyalty, especially those who fulfill their NS duties. What say ye?

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Postby taxico » Sat, 24 May 2008 6:59 pm

well. my singapore passport's up for renewal very very soon and i intend to lie on that bloody application about having no other citizenships.

hopefully i won't be hauled off by men in blue when i return to visit singapore later this year... i honestly don't think anything will happen. oh well...

*twiddle thumbs*

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 25 May 2008 12:43 am

rojaksing wrote:Thanks, Strong Eagle. Thats exactly what I was looking for - ppl with real experience of multiple passports. Are there anyone else out there to share their experience and first hand knowledge. There must be many out there in such situations.... yet, in view of the Singapore government's official stand on citizenship, the higher-ups must be closely an eye? If they do come down hard, its not difficult to guess how many more will leave, not by choice but of last resort. It really is the issue of Dual Citizenship (for convenience and economic reasons) and not one of loyalty, especially those who fulfill their NS duties. What say ye?


rojaksing,

"People with multiple passports" and "people with multiple passports of which one is a Singapore one" are two different things don't you think? In SE's case no law are being broken. If one happens to be a Singapore Passport then there is a law being broken and while they cannot do anything to you while you are outside of Singapore in the country of the other passport, as soon as you set on Singapore Soil it's a different soil and there is absolutely NOTHING that the country of the other passport can do for you as the laws apply of the country you are in at that time. So you could, very possibly, find yourself up the proverbial creek with out the provervial paddle. Of course, at the end of the day, nobody here it trying to tell you what to do, only the facts of the matter.

So at the end of the day, "you buys your ticket and you takes your chances" :-|

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 25 May 2008 3:07 am

rojaksing wrote:Thats exactly what I was looking for - ppl with real experience of multiple passports. Are there anyone else out there to share their experience and first hand knowledge.

What say ye?


Just don't kick yourself too hard - when you're sitting in prison or borrowing money for the hefty fine or banned from setting foot in Singapore again - for taking your chances based on random posts from total strangers on an internet forum. :roll:


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