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sierra2469alpha
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Postby sierra2469alpha » Thu, 08 May 2008 9:40 pm

cutiebutie wrote:Don't ask me why I know this but you are using a 'Ted Bulpitt' moment, aren't you?! :D

Fingerprints? No problem, their country, their regulations.

I wonder how many Torres Strait Islandersfly internationally, though.


Ah, ok, well I don't want to get into an argument about it. Suffice to say that I do not believe that foreign governments should collect biometric data on foreign nationals. Happy to debate this in another forum.

As for TSI - well, three very good friends of mine fly aircraft to and from that lovely part of the world. As did I, many moons ago.

And yes, the character of Ted Bullpit was created by a very dear friend of ours. So for you, it's now 30c PLUS GST.

:P

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Postby sierra2469alpha » Thu, 08 May 2008 9:45 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Holy Crap! this is my 5,000th post! :shock:


And a very welcome one...

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Postby Plavt » Thu, 08 May 2008 9:47 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Holy Crap! this is my 5,000th post! :shock:


The old man of the forum. :P :lol: :lol:

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Postby ksl » Wed, 14 May 2008 2:48 am

A census is one thing, Here it doesn't matter if it just applying for a credit card or an online registration. Everybody wants your race. Job applications? I'm an HR Manager........ (Unfortunately I work for a local SME so my stupid application form also have it).

eyeFone,

That is also one of the traits here. Apathy when it come to the government, which is why PAP does as it darn well pleases. The masses are too apathetic to voice their displeasure. They will only talk about the government in the kopi-shop while looking over their shoulders the whole time to see if anybody is listening to their whinge. They are scared *hitless of the government.


I kind of sympathise with you, although I see the red dot, very much like the UK, in terms of politics....for the last 200 years, its been very easy to create a diversion on the political field, with creating new labels,,,like The New Labour Party...they are all full of crap and not one political party ever have been for the people....

I decided to delete the other two hundred paragraphs, I got carried away for about 2 hrs. :lol: But you know what i mean! :roll: I guess only our parents really felt any progress after the war.

Our generation I'm afraid have lost out on many things, having worked and paid tax all our lives for what. :roll: I said to my wife i feel lost, because I left at the age of 18, and I have been travelling ever since.

Although I do miss the Country very much, I couldn't manage living in a chicken hutch, these days, and the prices are just way out of touch with reality.

5000 posts! I bet you hit 10000 before you retire!

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Postby Turtle » Wed, 14 May 2008 10:36 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:That is also one of the traits here. Apathy when it come to the government, which is why PAP does as it darn well pleases. The masses are too apathetic to voice their displeasure. They will only talk about the government in the kopi-shop while looking over their shoulders the whole time to see if anybody is listening to their whinge. They are scared *hitless of the government.


The only thing that makes things liveable is because the government is also apathetic and turns a blind eye to a lot of things. Like dual citizenships, rights (or otherwise) of homosexuals, pornography and censorship, National Service call-ups (imagine if they made sure everyone eligible gets called up for the full 3 weeks a year plus as much else as they can get away with), so on and so forth. If you look at all the laws, a government that really wanted to do all they were legally allowed to would completely control your life. We are lucky that so far, our leaders have been benevolent dictators. One day, if a first-born from "that family" turns out to be different, the country could honestly become a very obvious police state overnight.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 25 Jul 2008 1:46 pm

Turtle wrote:The only thing that makes things liveable is because the government is also apathetic and turns a blind eye to a lot of things. Like dual citizenships, rights (or otherwise) of homosexuals, pornography and censorship, National Service call-ups (imagine if they made sure everyone eligible gets called up for the full 3 weeks a year plus as much else as they can get away with), so on and so forth. If you look at all the laws, a government that really wanted to do all they were legally allowed to would completely control your life. We are lucky that so far, our leaders have been benevolent dictators. One day, if a first-born from "that family" turns out to be different, the country could honestly become a very obvious police state overnight.


Turtle,

It's not that the government is apathetic at all. They deliberately fly low key as they have to. As you can see, it works reasonably well. The population is subdued, and they can preach to the world how benevolent they are. How they "overlook" and otherwise relax their stance "without changing the laws" This means the population lives in fear as the laws are still there and, as you noted, this place could go the other direction overnight should the ruling dynasty have another aberration in the bloodline. As far as the dual citizenship laws are concerned, it's a bit difficult to monitor as there are countries that only require an investment of a couple of tens of thousands to get a passport without giving up yours passport of origin. They know that they cannot enforce it 100%. So, they do it differently and say if you hold a Singaporean one then if you are male you will do NS. Nobody has taken it to the Hague yet (one of these days somebody will though). Also, on that note regarding young males, Singapore has always walked on the fence as it were. Especially when trying not to Pi$$ off it's major trading partner. They sure aren't going to get into a Pi$$ing match with them over dual citizenship.

Only my thoughts......

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Postby andy21 » Fri, 25 Jul 2008 4:51 pm

In the election before the last, I voted for the PAP because I was young and afraid. At some point after that, I decided it was pointless being afraid, and that come enxt election, I would vote for whoever I damned well please.

As it turns out, I voted for the PAP the next election as well because I didn't even get to vote, so I endorse them by default.But I wonder how many people again voted for them out of fear? Exactly the way they like it.

Is it not a matter of concern that a government that gets barely 60% of the popular vote has like 100% control of every single organ of government?

Do away with the pretence of political freedoms in this country please.

Oh wait, we can't do that, this is the country of the great 'Wayang' (puppet show). Everything is micromanaged to the extent of unreality, whether it is property prices or being caring towards our neigbouring countries.

As George Orwell wrote in 1984, the loudspeaker blared that so many thousands pairs of boots had been produced in Oceania for that month, when the reality was that figure was a complete fabrication, and the reality was that probably no one knew how many pairs of boots had been produced, much less cared. That's an extreme, but the picture is there.

This population of this country by and large has accepted doublethink and self deception as normal. Reality control is the name of the game here.

Turtle,

'One day, if a first-born from "that family" turns out to be different'
And you are perfectly happy with being at the mercy of such a situation? :shock:

Here you get kisses while your lollipop is being taken away from you without you even noticing. :)

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Postby eyeFone » Fri, 25 Jul 2008 9:40 pm

Interesting direction thei thread has taken,

Andy, I also heard that people vote for the PAP out of fear, fear of having to walk up the stairs for lack of an upgraded lift.

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Postby pollyminaz » Sat, 26 Jul 2008 5:14 pm

Who would vote out of fear? What has the opposition party done anyway? Its has not even proved its mettle. How do you expect us to vote for it? During election day, they only know how to criticise, criticise, criticise. No concrete plans to change anything at all. If you ask me. The newly set up reformed party just might do its job.
We'll see how it performed come GE.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 26 Jul 2008 7:12 pm

pollyminaz wrote:Who would vote out of fear? What has the opposition party done anyway? Its has not even proved its mettle. How do you expect us to vote for it? During election day, they only know how to criticise, criticise, criticise. No concrete plans to change anything at all. If you ask me. The newly set up reformed party just might do its job.
We'll see how it performed come GE.


Polly, you almost sound like a card-carrying member of the PAP.

The reason that the Opposition doesn't have any power is because anytime somebody looks to be on the ball, they are sued on some minor pretext (most of which is silly as history will put it all into perspective anyway) into submission or bankrupted. This alone is enough to generate the fear needed to keep anybody from wanting to stand against the ruling party. That and the way the ruling Party uses the government (which by definition is separate from a political party) itself to keep them in power by threatening to take away from "Singaporean Citizens" if they do not vote for a certain political party.

Of course, the local version of "opposition" is, rightly so, considered a joke and I agree with you, they only oppose, with the exception of Chaim See Tong in Potong Pasir. So when he does agree with the PAP, he is then called a PAP wannabe or sympathiser. Singapore doesn't really deserve a Parliamentary government and that's why you have a what you got. A Parliamentary Government in Name only.

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Postby ksl » Sat, 26 Jul 2008 7:17 pm

Sorry for the length of this thing but writing effectively has never been my strong suite so I tend to ramble. Okay. Long-winded
:P :lol:

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:14 pm

pollyminaz wrote:Who would vote out of fear?

Possibly lots of people. I used to live in Potong Pasir, and worked for the government during that time. At election time, quite a few people advised me to vote PAP in case it affected my career if I voted opposition. I doubt I was the only one in Singapore getting this kind of advice.

In my case I voted any way I wanted because I believed (and still do) that individual votes are secret for the simple reason that the opposition is allowed to witness the entire process and if they are satisfied that the vote is secret then I am too.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:The reason that the Opposition doesn't have any power is because anytime somebody looks to be on the ball, they are sued on some minor pretext (most of which is silly as history will put it all into perspective anyway) into submission or bankrupted. This alone is enough to generate the fear needed to keep anybody from wanting to stand against the ruling party. That and the way the ruling Party uses the government (which by definition is separate from a political party) itself to keep them in power by threatening to take away from "Singaporean Citizens" if they do not vote for a certain political party.

Agreed that the government is an extension of the ruling party. In fact many politicians are born from the ranks of senior civil servants. And yes, when an opposition member is sued, it's practically a foregone conclusion that he will lose.

I think there is another reason that the opposition is weak. Simply put, there is no need for one today. The government has proven itself and we are a people that judges by results instead of living by ideology. I do think that someday there WILL be a need for opposition due to erosion of integrity in the ruling party. And I have enough faith in my countrymen that when that time comes, enough people will come together to do something about it. We will fight when there's something to fight for.

And even before that day comes, we may see stronger opposition. Younger voters aren't very enamoured with the PAP and the latter knows this. They have to work harder every election to capture votes. Change may come faster than we think. :)

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Postby pollyminaz » Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:35 pm

SMS-I may sound like card-carrying member of the PAP but I am not. I am just saying that if the opposition prove that it is just as good and educated as the PAP, then more Singaporeans will vote for them. They don't just have to criticise the PAP to win votes, you know. There are other ways.
And WIMH, i think there is a need for an opposition party today. The PAP need a competitor. And i really hope the Reform Party can be a good, strong opposition. :)
I am not exactly 'enamoured' of the PAP, but its not like the opposition party were going all out to woo us voters.

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Postby ksl » Sun, 27 Jul 2008 12:51 am

Well if it's anything like UK politics, opposition parties are only allowed in if they don't rock the boat....that is to say, there is no real opposition between parties, they all pee in the same pot, share the same eating establishments, and social life, then put on an act for the public. If they don't play the game inside the house, fear not, they will be dealt with, politics is about preserving the integrity of the cliche, any threats will be disposed of, it's that simple.

I wouldn't trust a damn one of them in politics mind you in the UK, its neither expected, the public at large don't really have a say in anything, they are just lead to believe that they are! People that shout the loudest normally get encouraged to be quite and rewarded with a knighthood.

Here in Singapore, one needs to look deeper, in to how it works, and again, don't rock the boat otherwise you fall overboard. The Singaporean spatial awareness again comes to mind in such a limited space, with many powerful people, that play the game.

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Postby Petales Soufflez! » Wed, 30 Jul 2008 2:31 am

I do not see why anybody should fear when they vote. Voting is about expression of choice. My family always chose the PAP (because they believe in it no matter how much they may criticise it) while many of my good friends and relatives (even Civil Servants) don't. They would attend opposition rallies and vote for the Opposition. We often have a good fight over it near Election time but we all respect each other's choices - for the different reasons that we have for making them. And their vote is secret and they are doing very very well, thank you very much.

The climate of fear does exist but often it exists in the minds of the people. And true that the Government often does not do anything to repel it - after all who cares why you vote for the PAP as long as you do it?

If you vote for the PAP because you fear and think that you may lose certain priviledges, then you only have to live with your own lack of conviction. But greed you sure have which is fine as elections are also about fulfilling certain and different expectations that people have. Question is what they may then actually do to fulfill their promises (or your fears).

I've been an active student political activist when I was in NUS, have been paid by 2 governments (one from the liberal West) to study politics in my lost youth and have done so in 3 institutions (2 postgrad). If anything, I no longer believe in the ideological battle per se because I think that it sometimes did more harm than good. What I have is faith in systems that have in their interest peace and the good of the people - for the natural survival of the regime(s). Everything else will be a question of adjustment, faith/fortitude of the people and the needs of the period. Not to forget local conditions, demographics, momentum, interactions with the outside world...Every country is unique as will be its political experience.

Look around us. How many countries are safe havens for their citizens? Where they will not disappear in the middle of the night never to return? Where they get assassinated for their beliefs? Not many. A handful in Europe, Australia, North America. I always say that for all the perils that they face in Singapore, at least those who oppose will live to return and fight again.
Je pense donc je suis. Le reste du temps, je ne suis qu'une fleur.


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