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Any one know how to stop gout

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Any one know how to stop gout

Postby firefox » Sat, 19 Apr 2008 3:51 am

Hi all,
I suffer from gout now and again and wonder if anyone knows any way to stop it. I am on tablets to stop the build up of the acid but they dont seem to work.

I have stoped drinking beer and cut down on red meat and seafood any help would be greatfull.
Firefox :???:
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Postby Superglide » Sat, 19 Apr 2008 3:56 am

go to bed now, it will help.
If only we could pull out our brain and use only our eyes.
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Postby firefox » Sat, 19 Apr 2008 4:38 am

wish i could at work right now
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Gout

Postby Allibert » Sat, 19 Apr 2008 8:02 am

Don't give up on the tablets. The tablets will help get your uric acid levels back to normal. after that it's just a matter of eating the right food and drinking lots of water to keep flushing the purines out of your body.

I'm sure you klnow this from your doctor anyway but it's not just red meat. Different foods can trigger the gout in different people so check the other foods that you shouldn't be eating, like peas, beans, soya products, seafood, salmon, etc. In addition I was told no brandy or whisky either, which wasn't a problem for me

Apparently, some people find eating black cherries is helpful for gout, others swear by drinking apple cider vinegar.

For me, no beer and red meat works pretty well, though I do allow myself some pork it's mostly chicken. Tofu is ok now and again and lots of water and other liquids (probably about 3 litres per day).

Good luckwith your gout. I have kept mine under control for about a year now with very little pain.

Alan

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 19 Apr 2008 9:11 am

As a 25 year sufferer from gout, I can tell you that most of what Allibert has said is true. If you are on allipurinol, stay on it until you have modified your diet to reduce the levels of Uric Acid in the blood. If you continue to indulge in food that are high in Purine levels (the primary protein that is converted into uric acid) you also stand a chance of developing kidney stones which are just as painful as your big knuckle in your big toe!

Meats are generally okay in small quantities but stay away from gravies made from the meat drippings as the purine is concentrated in the juices. Large seafood is generally okay, but sardines and ikan bilis/anchovies are a definite no-no! Also try to stay away from any bean products (baked bean, bean sprouts, kidney beans or red bean mooncakes! These can also trigger a bout/flareup. So can an injury like stubbing you toe. Soybean products are debatable depending on which article you read and which doctor you see. I've been told that soybean products are very bad but I've occasionally read the opposite. Organ meat is a definite no-no as well, e.g., liver, kidneys, brains, etc. Alcohol is bad for you as well. I have given up the majority of the items and have more or less had mine under control for the past 10~15 years with only an occasional flareup.

If you don't control it, eventually the big knuckle in your toe will enlarge and be painful to wear leather shoes so it's a good idea to make the necessary sacrifices to control the effects.

Gout is a hereditary affliction that usually skips one or two generations. It also used to be able to be brought about by certain early heart medications. There is no cure for gout, only control.

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Postby firefox » Sat, 19 Apr 2008 9:52 pm

Many Thanks. I know most of it but was told I could eat beans so that is new to me. I also think the cold here makes the gout more painful and more attacks so that is why I am looking for work in asia. Its -12 and snowing today and has been down to -47 so I have more attacks then I did in the UK.

I have stopped drinking now and losing weight which in turn as made me have a gout attack also been on antibiotics which can cause gout too.
I will have to keep working at it and try to find away round the pain which is taking longer to go.

many thanks

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:25 pm

Firefox,

Ask you doctor for a prescript for Colchicine tabs. That will knock the feller off in a matter of a day or so.

http://arthritis.about.com/od/colchicin ... rnings.htm

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 007204.htm

As I said, there are mixed schools of thought on the Soybean/Soy Products consumption as there is a lot of good reasons to consume Soy products. In my case, being in Asia, where Tofu is common in most dishes, I decided to eliminate that because it is so easy to overload oneself with Soy Products here.

Works for me.

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Postby ksl » Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:28 pm

firefox wrote:Many Thanks. I know most of it but was told I could eat beans so that is new to me. I also think the cold here makes the gout more painful and more attacks so that is why I am looking for work in asia. Its -12 and snowing today and has been down to -47 so I have more attacks then I did in the UK.

I have stopped drinking now and losing weight which in turn as made me have a gout attack also been on antibiotics which can cause gout too.
I will have to keep working at it and try to find away round the pain which is taking longer to go.

many thanks

firefox


I also had my first gout attack in my big toe in 1989 the blood levels was so high, and even the tablets didn't help, the pain actually subsided, although that doesn't help if the joints are immobalised because of crystalisation....I used to be a regular blood donor, but had to stop because of the uric acid in the blood..

In 2003 I still had high levels of uric acid in the blood, just because taking tablets is supposed to help...I wouldn't count on it...the diet may help, only if that was the cause of the problem in the first place....if its in the genes, the actual cause is something else and not diet.


Mine was however diet, but once the crystals are formed, the tablets do not help...only vinegar can help, any good specially brewed vinegar, like the ones made specially for drinking, will eventually break down the crystals in the joints, it is a well known fact, that the acids in the fermentation process will disolve the uric acid salts, and also kidney stones, which are due to excessive calcium.

Many people argue the fact, that it doesn't work, although one must understand the cause in the first place, if its a gene defect maybe it will not work...although it actually cured my gout completely, and the tablets had no effect whatsoever in 15 years.

If your in the UK drinking vinegar is very difficult to find, there is a Company in London that have our brand, which is sold under a different name, that i am not allowed to mention.

But I would recommend a fruit balsamic, not a copy, of which there are many...It needs to be correctly brewed and aged, to be any good and drinking it with your meals will help a great deal, because it will take the load off the liver, and ensure you are getting the essential acids, that the body needs, to balance the system.

Diet is the problem in many uric acid cases, since all the fast food and junk food, we eat contribute, through the protien rich offal, that we eat, and believe me, having worked in Danish Crown slaughter house, i know exactly what goes into sausages, chicken nuggets and other products.

You have nothing to lose get yourself a good quality drinking vinegar, and prove it to yourself...Like i say, it doesn't work for everyone, but Rome wasn't build in a day, either, it needs dedication to get the results, I had been drinking vinegars for a about 5 months, before i realised, i had full movement again in my big toe, and I wasn't drinking vinegar because of the uric acid...I was trying to prove to myself that drinking vinegar was healthy to drink, by monitoring my blood sampples.

Simply because my wife is working with the product, and if it hadn't of worked, I would have voiced my opinion to everyone. But it worked for me so well, that it's now a passion i have, of tasting different ones, just like drinking none alcoholic wine.

Although to find one that doesn't taste of vinegar, you will have to buy from Singapore, Taiwan China or Japan. The Brits are years behind as usual! :wink:

We get conned enough these days, without adding more hope to patients, but I don't like medication anyway, and would always seek alternative medicine, becuase most man made medication is more about earning top$, it may cure the problem but not the cause, and normally man made medicine will effect other parts of the body, hence, you have to take more medication, to control other side effects.

Try the egg and vinegar test, you will soon see, that the hard calcium shell, will be disolved in no time at all.

Although the main cause is the body itself is out of balance, the pH value, needs to be corrected, through proper diet, and that also means proper intake of acids....of which you are not getting. :o probably not enough citric fruits like apples and oranges.

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Postby Loops » Sun, 20 Apr 2008 12:17 am

others swear by drinking apple cider vinegar.


I was going to mention that. I'm not a gout sufferer, but I know that apple cider vinegar (ACV) is supposed to be very good for lots of things and my mum (who is some kind of ACV guru as it turns out :D ) keeps recommending it to me for everything from dry hair to indigestion to kidney problems!!!

But if you give it a google, you might find out how good it is supposed to be. I think you're supposed to put one part ACV to about 5 or 6 parts water and drink daily (so it isn't anything too horrendous).

I hope you get some relief - gout sounds horrible.

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Postby firefox » Sun, 20 Apr 2008 12:19 am

I am in Canada right now so I will look around to see if I can find the drinking vinegar. Many thanks for you advice.

I don’t eat fast food so that would not be a problem for me, Manley fish chicken and some pork.

when i was in the UK I only got it once or twice a year but been in Canada I have it every two months or so but not server enough to keep me in bed but saying that the last two attacks are more painful then before.

I do think that the cold here make sit worst so i will have to look into finding work in Asia as I don’t want to move back to the UK.

Many thanks to all who sent replies to me

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Postby ksl » Sun, 20 Apr 2008 2:14 am

firefox wrote:I am in Canada right now so I will look around to see if I can find the drinking vinegar. Many thanks for you advice.

I don’t eat fast food so that would not be a problem for me, Manley fish chicken and some pork.

when i was in the UK I only got it once or twice a year but been in Canada I have it every two months or so but not server enough to keep me in bed but saying that the last two attacks are more painful then before.

I do think that the cold here make sit worst so i will have to look into finding work in Asia as I don’t want to move back to the UK.

Many thanks to all who sent replies to me

firefox


It's interesting you mention the cold, because if you are not 100% sure it is gout, it sounds more likely to be some arthritic condition that reacts to the cold, which causes inflammation and pain, although vinegar helps with both...In fact even a malt vinegar on brown paper of all things, will relieve joint pain too, if soaked in vinegar, and placed over the joint for 30 minutes...old wives tales, never figured out why brown paper though, unless its something to do with wood pulp :???:

Apple cider vinegar is good too, although the taste, you need to get accustomed to it, it does taste like vinegar yuck! it's a little old hat in these days, of bio-technology and agricultral chemistry, which have developed better health vinegars for drinking purposes...only a handful of people have truly mastered the technique.....I drink it all the time these days, with all my meals, or if i just want to quench my thirst...the acid compounds a minimum of 10 are essential to the metabolic citric acid cycle, the chemical reactions of which increase ATP : ATP (adenosine triphosphate)
form of stored energy in organisms that is composed of a nucleotide with ribose sugar and three phosphates (Biology)

So its not only a health drink, its a energy drink too, helps with fatigue, and enhances the immune system, breaking down fatty acids (cholesterol)
my levels of the bad stuff are well below the average, these days, with HDL the good stuff increased.

One thing for sure, it is better than all the fizzy rubbish on the market, and I've never tasted a better energy drink ever.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 20 Apr 2008 12:37 pm

An ounce of prevention (dietary change) is worth a lot more than a pound of cure (prescriptions, drinking vinegar, apple cider, whatever). Especially costs wise.

Other types of arthritis is a different story. Oh, Kidney stones as a result of gout are not calcium based but Uric acid crystals.

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Postby ksl » Sun, 20 Apr 2008 10:56 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:An ounce of prevention (dietary change) is worth a lot more than a pound of cure (prescriptions, drinking vinegar, apple cider, whatever). Especially costs wise.

Other types of arthritis is a different story. Oh, Kidney stones as a result of gout are not calcium based but Uric acid crystals.


Well yes, because uric acid pH is low and calcium is more alkaline based, at the other end of the scale, although until blood tests are done, no one would actually know, the pain being Ouch! :cry:

The other thing is drinking vinegar is prevention and not a cure...the aim is to balance the pH...that is to keep the urin around 7.4 ....if it shows acidic it is because of the body's own mechanism producing acid, much stronger than any vinegar.....So when the acid level of urine is down to say pH 4 that is like vinegar....if you drink vinegar, it will dilute the body acid raising the urine pH back to normal!

Blood pH is not effected...and cannot be effected by acidic drinks, because there is very little tolerence in blood pH, before death occurs.

The reason illness sets in, in the first place, is because the pH becomes imbalanced over a long period, due to bad diet. So drinking vinegar cures, is a ? difficult to answer, what it does is provide the acids, that have been neglected, normally through fruit, and veg.

Every persons tolerence and genetic make up is different, that's also why some heavy smokers never ever get cancer I suppose. Genetics play a very important part in health.

I see it especially so with teeth, for example..my brothers and sisters had false teeth very early in their 20's so I learned from an early age, to try and look after my teeth, however, I believe all these tooth pastes may have very little to do, with teeth protection....

Genetics are the main factors in health I believe, so if the DNA is showing any defects, there is no running away from the truth. No matter how much prevention you take....It's all down to the engine, and fuel, over generations, not just a life time...

What is interesting to know, is that for all the noble prize winners in the world.....providing relevant scientific research, from 100 years ago to date, appear to know what they are talking about....

So if Adolf Krebs says, these 10 acids open the pathways to the metabolism, and the body doesn't produce them its self, you get them through diet! Why is this never ever emphasised by government health services...

Okay the acids which must be essential to good health, balance the pH of the body...so the government says eat more fruit....although we are not discussing nutritional value....we are discussing acids that have no nutritional value, that are essential to good health.

No one that I know of, lays any importance on acid compounds and health, and we have people around, including professors and doctors, that argue, the fact, that vinegar acids, add more acid, to the stomach, when in fact, the opposite occurs, when the vinegar reaches the stomach the pH 4 is diluted, raising the pH 2, to maybe pH 3, so in fact it as an alkaline effect.

Prevention is always better than cure, drinking vinegar is prevention and cure, in some circumstance, especially for diet related illnesses, and drinking vinegar is maybe a small price to pay, in the long run, even a glass a day, one can compare vinegar to wine, without a doubt...although vinegar is much more essential.

Red wine can be the main cause of gout attacks, vinegar will not cause gout. Red wine does prevent cardiac problems, that's why many hospitals offer to serve a glass, patients, the cheapest also works well and a glass a day, should be okay for cholesterol, a bottle a day, may cause gout!

Professor Fereidoon Shahidi Department of Biochemistry Memorial University Canada..analysed the vinegars I drink, at a cost of 50.000 Sing$, He is supposed to be a reputable analyst.

I keep the results to myself of course, although i will say, on blood lipids it is all positive, I will also tell you that different fruits, provide different results, for different ailments in the blood, however overall, all FERMENTED fruit vinegars, are positive for health and the findings state, when consumed, it is likely that the bodys' own mechanism, strengthens, the potency of some of the compounds and actually helps the work load on the liver, Free radicals are excreted it's really quite interesting stuff to read about...

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 21 Apr 2008 3:11 pm

Prevention should be possible without processing. By watching one's dietary intake both the quantities and quality, much of our problems can be avoided without putting anything that has been processed into our systems.

I'm not saying that drinking vinegar can't help, but what I am saying is if one eats healthy both in quantity and quality and staying away from those things that knowingly aggravate known conditions, then the body would already have adjusted the pH levels and so forth. Hence my comment an ounce of prevention would preclude the need to take something else that is not naturally occurring in order to offset other bad habits.

Needless to say, I've seen the light as to what processed food and drinks can do to a person. I spent the past 3+ eating nothing but fresh unprocessed foods and I see what it can accomplish. It's like having a new lease on life.

I don't see drinking vinegar as a prevention. The eating and drinking properly is the prevention. Drinking vinegar is a cure for eating improperly. If one eats properly, you won't need to take anything to counteract something else. When you do, it's know as as cure isn't it.

One prime example that is right up your alley is acid reflux. I used to get that at night quite often, within 4 weeks of going on this change of lifestyle, I have not had one episode since. Neither do I find myself having "gas" from either direction. My BHP has also dropped 10/5 points so far.
It's all good.

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Postby ksl » Thu, 24 Apr 2008 9:42 pm

I'm not saying that drinking vinegar can't help, but what I am saying is if one eats healthy both in quantity and quality and staying away from those things that knowingly aggravate known conditions, then the body would already have adjusted the pH levels and so forth. Hence my comment an ounce of prevention would preclude the need to take something else that is not naturally occurring in order to offset other bad habits.

Spot on!


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