No subletting allowed?

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frenzal
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No subletting allowed?

Post by frenzal » Thu, 17 Apr 2008 5:29 pm

I wonder what subletting means? What if I rent out a room whilst I'm living there? Does that count as subletting?

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durain
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Post by durain » Thu, 17 Apr 2008 5:34 pm

yes.

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jpatokal
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Post by jpatokal » Thu, 17 Apr 2008 8:57 pm

Subletting is just what the name says: you lease (let) an apartment from somebody, and then proceed to sub-lease the place (or part of it) to someone else. It's not "illegal" (a crime), but it's almost certainly forbidden by your tenancy agreement and you can get kicked out if you're busted. In particular, if the sublet apartment is an HDB rented from the government, they will kick both of you out if you're caught.
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Post by frenzal » Fri, 18 Apr 2008 9:00 am

jpatokal wrote:Subletting is just what the name says: you lease (let) an apartment from somebody, and then proceed to sub-lease the place (or part of it) to someone else. It's not "illegal" (a crime), but it's almost certainly forbidden by your tenancy agreement and you can get kicked out if you're busted. In particular, if the sublet apartment is an HDB rented from the government, they will kick both of you out if you're caught.
ok, this makes the shift housing scheme for foreign talent quite stupid. so, I can get a 4 room place for S$1,500 but 2 of the rooms are meant to be completely unused.

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Post by durain » Fri, 18 Apr 2008 9:22 am

yes.

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Post by frenzal » Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:09 am

What if I let my friend stay with me. I don't rent out the room to them, but they buy me groceries each week. Lots of groceries.

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Post by durain » Fri, 18 Apr 2008 5:18 pm

how long is a piece of string? :roll:

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Post by jpatokal » Fri, 18 Apr 2008 7:45 pm

frenzal wrote:What if I let my friend stay with me. I don't rent out the room to them, but they buy me groceries each week. Lots of groceries.
If your friend is recorded in the tenancy agreement as an occupant, it's fine, and whether they pay you is nobody's business. Otherwise it's not.
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Post by frenzal » Sat, 19 Apr 2008 10:12 am

jpatokal wrote:
frenzal wrote:What if I let my friend stay with me. I don't rent out the room to them, but they buy me groceries each week. Lots of groceries.
If your friend is recorded in the tenancy agreement as an occupant, it's fine, and whether they pay you is nobody's business. Otherwise it's not.
ok, so basically, what you're saying is that there's no way loopholes to overcome the shift agreement guidelines?

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sundaymorningstaple
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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 19 Apr 2008 3:56 pm

to quote durain.....

"yes."
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by frenzal » Sat, 19 Apr 2008 4:18 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:to quote durain.....

"yes."
what if my family were to come and stay at my apartment for a year, and I don't charge them anything? would they be able to do that, or will that also be classified as subletting?

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Post by durain » Sat, 19 Apr 2008 4:52 pm

yes, and no.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 19 Apr 2008 6:35 pm

Okay,

If you could even rent one to start with (because at the moment there are not any SHiFT housing available) you would only be able to have family members there as anybody else would be considered as subletting (whether money transacted or not). Now that this is out of the way.
III DECLARATION: I declare that :

1. Neither I, my spouse nor any of the persons listed in my application to rent a flat under the Scheme for of Foreign Talent (SHiFT):

(a) Is currently in a tenancy agreement for another SHiFT flat;
(b) Own any residential property in Singapore

2. I have arrived in Singapore on ______________ (date: DDMMYYYY)

3. All the particulars given in this application form are true and I have not suppressed any information the form.

4. I will inform JTC/ Managing Agent of any subsequent changes to the information supplied in the form, such as the size of my family, authorized co-occupiers, change of contact address, employment, etc.

5. I understand and accept that:

(a) JTC/Managing Agent has the right to cancel my application if any of the information given application form is false or if I have suppressed any information, and if a flat has already allocated to me, JTC/Managing Agent has the right to recover the flat from me.
(b) The flat allocated under this housing scheme is for my own use and there will be no subletting JTC/ Managing agent has the right to recover the flat from me if I sublet the flat to others.
This also means that they do not have to approve the additional people you want to let live in the flat. As it's their flats you are bound by the application form that you file and sign (from which I took the above quote from). For clarification, a co-occupier must also be an EP holder.

They will not give you approval for anybody that is not on a long term visa. You are limited as to what family members you can apply for LTSVP's/Dependent Passes for by the level of your EP so they have got you by the short hairs.

The SHiFT scheme is not a joke, but it is often attempted to be taken advantage of by foreigner who want to try to screw the system and that's why they are so strict.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by frenzal » Sat, 19 Apr 2008 7:05 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Okay,

If you could even rent one to start with (because at the moment there are not any SHiFT housing available) you would only be able to have family members there as anybody else would be considered as subletting (whether money transacted or not). Now that this is out of the way.
III DECLARATION: I declare that :

1. Neither I, my spouse nor any of the persons listed in my application to rent a flat under the Scheme for of Foreign Talent (SHiFT):

(a) Is currently in a tenancy agreement for another SHiFT flat;
(b) Own any residential property in Singapore

2. I have arrived in Singapore on ______________ (date: DDMMYYYY)

3. All the particulars given in this application form are true and I have not suppressed any information the form.

4. I will inform JTC/ Managing Agent of any subsequent changes to the information supplied in the form, such as the size of my family, authorized co-occupiers, change of contact address, employment, etc.

5. I understand and accept that:

(a) JTC/Managing Agent has the right to cancel my application if any of the information given application form is false or if I have suppressed any information, and if a flat has already allocated to me, JTC/Managing Agent has the right to recover the flat from me.
(b) The flat allocated under this housing scheme is for my own use and there will be no subletting JTC/ Managing agent has the right to recover the flat from me if I sublet the flat to others.
This also means that they do not have to approve the additional people you want to let live in the flat. As it's their flats you are bound by the application form that you file and sign (from which I took the above quote from). For clarification, a co-occupier must also be an EP holder.

They will not give you approval for anybody that is not on a long term visa. You are limited as to what family members you can apply for LTSVP's/Dependent Passes for by the level of your EP so they have got you by the short hairs.

The SHiFT scheme is not a joke, but it is often attempted to be taken advantage of by foreigner who want to try to screw the system and that's why they are so strict.
Thanks very much for all that info. I do think the SHi(F)T scheme could be better though.

Most young expats would be excluded from the scheme: they have to settle for sharing an apartment with someone else, and paying S$1,000 for their room, as $1.5k is too much to pay for an apartment when you're only using 1 room. So it only really benefits expats coming up with their families. If only there was a scheme to attract young foreign talent: it makes sense for the government - we come when we're young and have a better chance to adapt to the culture. If we stay, we will fit into society and benefit it far better than the older expats.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 19 Apr 2008 8:17 pm

frenzal wrote:
Thanks very much for all that info. I do think the SHi(F)T scheme could be better though.

Most young expats would be excluded from the scheme: they have to settle for sharing an apartment with someone else, and paying S$1,000 for their room, as $1.5k is too much to pay for an apartment when you're only using 1 room. So it only really benefits expats coming up with their families. If only there was a scheme to attract young foreign talent: it makes sense for the government - we come when we're young and have a better chance to adapt to the culture. If we stay, we will fit into society and benefit it far better than the older expats.
frenzal,

Methinks thou dost expect too much. They don't have to provide anything at all. I can't think of any other country in the world that has such a scheme.

Most young expats won't be excluded from the scheme as you can have 2 Co-occupiers of the unit (no family needed) in a 3 room flat.

I though you had already downloaded the word or pdf application file from their website. Had you done so, you would not have had to ask all these questions (unless you are having some problems with reading comprehension that is - but I don't think that's the problem at all).

Again, taken from the application form:
IV CONDITIONS

To qualify for SHiFT:

1. The main applicant must be least 21 years of age; not an undischarged bankrupt; and do not own any local
residential property.

2. The main applicant must be an Employment Pass Holder * or a Permanent Resident * with a minimum fixed
monthly income of $2,500.

3. The main applicant must be an employee of a registered business/ company at the point of application (Letter
from the business/ company will be required).

4. Main applicant who is married and whose family is in Singapore must apply together with the spouse and children as a family unit. Does NOT say they have to be married!
5. Sole/single applicant can only apply for a 3-room HDB flat.

* Applicable to co-occupiers who are not immediate family members. Immediate family members include main tenant’s spouse, children, parents and siblings.

JTC reserves the right to accept or reject any application at our sole and absolute discretion without furnishing any reason whatsoever for the rejection. Please note that JTC shall not be liable for any loss or damage whatsoever or howsoever caused arising directly or indirectly in connection with any application.

V APPLICATION AND ALLOCATION INSTRUCTIONS

1. The main applicant and all eligible co-occupiers must be present during the application and allocation of the flat.

2. The main applicant and all eligible co-occupiers must bring along the original and a duplicate copy of the following documents:

(a) Valid passport;
(b) Valid passes issued by the Ministry of Manpower / Immigration & Checkpoints Authority;
(c) Documentary proof of relationship between main applicant and eligible co-occupiers (for immediate family members):
(i) Marriage certificate; and
(ii) Birth certificate.
(d) Letter from the company (employer of the main applicant and all employed co-occupiers) to certify he/she is an employee of the company. The letter must be dated within 30 days from date of SHiFT application. The letter should state:

(i) Name of employee;
(ii) Designation in the company;
(iii) NRIC/FIN No.;
(iv) Basic salary; and
(v) Date of joining the company.

For immediate family members who are Student Pass holders, please submit a letter from the school / Institution stating the student's name, course and period of study.
A three room HDB flat has two bedrooms. If two Singles share a SHiFT flat what's the problem? As long as both are employed legally and earn at least $2500/mo.

Now what's the problem and why is a special scheme that nobody else in the world has not "fair". I'd say they are being more than fair.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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