One More National Service Question - immigrated to Australia

[ejwarrior]

There are a few unique situations that I have read about on this forum in regards to renouncement of Singapore Citizenship. Mine is different - from what I've seen anyway.

Most of what I have read are from ex-Singaporeans naturalised in Canada and the US. Unfortunately for me there isn’t much information on the Australian consulate websites etc. I have not actually tried to apply for renunciation myself as my Dad’s advise back in the day was its a dead cause and as far as we can see they don’t really know about me as I never applied for an IC and my Singapore passport and birth certificate were hand written (but I am pretty sure if they dug deep enough they would discover my identity).

I've had family members enquire for me into the matter at the consulates/ministries etc, but they just get palmed off to other people who appear to not know what they are talking about or don’t seem to want to divulge any information.

This is my Situation anyway:

- My Family and I migrated to Australia as Business migrants when I was 9 years old.

- We obtained Australian Citizenship by the time I was 12 years old.

- Since we migrated, I have only lived in Australia

- Before the age of 15 I visited Singapore for holidays which normally didn’t extend any longer then 3 weeks and I did the travelling on my Australian Passport

-I visited Singapore for the last time when I was 15 because of a death in the family and never returned since. I am now 26

-I never applied for an IC

-I never registered for National Service

-My Parents never paid any sort of bond

-We didn’t try to renounce ever – so have i missed the 21 year old cut off? (as according to http://singapore.usembassy.gov/military ... apore.html) Which prob. Doesn’t apply to me as it is from the US embassy site.

-I have a copy of immigration stamp for 1st arrival into Australia

-My parents do return to Singapore every so often for vacation/study/business

-I’ve been educated in Australia since Primary School (Aussie Year 5 / Singapore Primary 4 equivalent). Gone to University in Australia and now have a successful career (and that’s thanks to the Australian government)

-I am proud to be Australian, and I will prob. live and die here.

What are my chances for renouncing my citizenship?

I found a form on the US website – can this still apply to me as I am Australian? - http://www.mfa.gov.sg/sanfrancisco/pdf/ ... enship.pdf

Also some references that I have been reading –
http://singapore.usembassy.gov/military ... apore.html
http://www.singaporeexpats.com/forum/ft ... 7dc74f2c2e
http://www.mfa.gov.sg/sanfrancisco/SGrenounce.html

After all this, am I still up sht creek without a pedal?

[yoongf]

Just apply for renounciation. Since u have gotten Australian citizenship, it would be contradictory if they do not approve it, since dual citizenship is not allowed.

[Jeppo]

Just apply for renounciation. Since u have gotten Australian citizenship, it would be contradictory if they do not approve it, since dual citizenship is not allowed.

The problem is, that Singapore won't allow him to reounce until he has completed NS. If, that is, he has to do it.

As for the OP, I have no idea what you should do. I remember someone posted that they rang the ministry and asked if he was listed. Do a search through the forums to find it, and give them (the ministry) a call, maybe they can help.

[sundaymorningstaple]

ejwarrior,

a lot of information but the key information is missing. As you were 9 when you went to Aus, you obviously had a Singapore Passport at some point (this was as good as having an NRIC as far as Singapore is concerned). When did that passport expire? If it was after the age of 11 (if you are 26 the 13 would not have applied yet as it's due to the biometric passports) you would have, according to the government's thoughts, enjoyed significant benefits of Singapore (their words, not mine!). As the law here is biased especially if you are a birthright Singaporean regarding NS in particular, the fact that you have Australian Citizenship is immaterial as you are only a naturalized citizen there. As such, you are in violation of the law at this point in time as you have not done your NS This could have been avoided had your parents paid attention to the ramifications of not following proper procedures way back then. The impact obviously has far reaching consequences as you are finding out.

You would still be listed as a Citizen as you are not allowed to renounce, as a male citizen, unless you have completed NS (unless proper procedures had been followed years ago). You would very much be in the same situation as the Piano Man. Whether you would get off with a fine if caught is anybody's guess.

Also, whether you would get caught when traveling on an Aus. Passport is also anybody's guess as well. I suppose it could happen as your Aus Passport probably tells that you were born in Singapore and it could be figured out via date of birth if you have served or not.

Legally? You are up that creek.

Unless your parents did what I did in the beginning then I don't hold too much hope. I got my son his first Singapore Passport a couple of weeks after he was born (5 year passport) then immediately renewed it just before it expired (5 year passport). If your passport expired prior to your 11th birthday and was never renewed you might have a leg to stand on.

[ejwarrior]

Thanks for your thoughts. Its really hard to find out anything as you have mentioned. Its kinda a beat around the bush and can be quite frustrating, so for a period of time my parents gave up - hence the procedures were not followed - reasoning being it was very hard to get any of that sort of information from the authorities back in those days. Last I heard my father was advised that he should send me to singapore to sit a trial where my fate would be decided in court - I thought that was a bit harsh.

Just checked my old Singapore passport. it expired exactly on my 11th birthday and is not machine readable. Yes, unfortunately my Aussie passport has my place of birth printed on it.

Its so risky travelling anywhere through singapore. Normally when I do travel overseas, e.g. the most economic/cost effective way to travel is via Singapore. Instead I go via Sydney or Melbourne which has directs to other cities that bypass it.

I'm guessing you didnt have much dramas having this done for your son? di dyou have to pay any sort of bond etc?

[sundaymorningstaple]

I'm guessing you didnt have much dramas having this done for your son? di dyou have to pay any sort of bond etc?

Not yet anyway.

[citrus]

May I know if ejwarrior's problem is solved? One of my family members is facing the same problem as well.

[taxico]

Its so risky travelling anywhere through singapore. Normally when I do travel overseas, e.g. the most economic/cost effective way to travel is via Singapore. Instead I go via Sydney or Melbourne which has directs to other cities that bypass it.

you don't have to go through passport control for transfers, i don't think.

[bruinbear]

Why don't you write in to the ICA to ask?

http://www.ica.gov.sg/index.aspx

[imocus]

Well a lot of guys in singapore tell me that its been a great experience serving in the army for them. Leadership, life skills and such.

Pretty much like Americans sending their kids to military schools, except the singapore government pays!

[taxico]

Well a lot of guys in singapore tell me that its been a great experience serving in the army for them. Leadership, life skills and such.

Pretty much like Americans sending their kids to military schools, except the singapore government pays!

not entirely... in US mil schools you get an actual education too. (be it j/rotc or federal/state run academies)

it's true army is a great experience; but only if you go in with an open positive mind.

there're many young adults who enter the NS system extremely resistant to the regimentation with much dire consequence.

can't be sure it's the same for fire-rescue and police NS though...

[andy21]

In Singapore it takes a grand total of 10 months to churn out an army officer. Compare that with other military organizations.

No wonder the calibre of our officer corp is top notch.

[hajamie]

Doesn't not being able to go through Singapore make it difficult to go places? Most long haul flights go through there.
J.

[sillingw]

as was written earlier, OP could transit thru Singapore - you do not go thru immigration when transiting, I guess it's more of an uncomfortable "what-if" feeling, but they do not run checks, unless of course you wanted to go out into the city

[Biogentic]

In Singapore it takes a grand total of 10 months to churn out an army officer. Compare that with other military organizations.

No wonder the calibre of our officer corp is top notch.

lol, top notch? LMAO.... frankly speaking other than their physical fitness, i dont really think they r of higher calibre