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international schools vs local schools?

Discuss various schooling options for your children here.
local lad
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Postby local lad » Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:42 pm

I think martz has issues with the local school system. Either she/he was disappointed because of rejected application for their kids or he/she wants to keep expats from applying.

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Postby road.not.taken » Sat, 26 Apr 2008 1:48 pm

local lad wrote:I think martz has issues with the local school system. Either she/he was disappointed because of rejected application for their kids or he/she wants to keep expats from applying.


Some of us don't think the local schools would be a great fit for our kids or our families or our situations, it's as simple as that. Like anything, there are fans and there are detractors.

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Postby martz » Sat, 26 Apr 2008 2:10 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:martz

I hate to tell you this, but you are so out of touch with the local school system of today you really SHOULD keep you opinions to yourself. Each time you post here you make yourself look sillier and sillier. Rote learning went out the window here when Goh Tock Chong what PM. What rock have you been under?

You sound like a old dinosaur who is getting their info out of an old Expats guide that was published in 1981. You really need to get out more.


I dont have to look at them to know what is happening- all public schs are alike everywhere - uk, us or spore - crime ridden, drugs & no real learning.

Got to nip it in the bud - u see the big picture if u are stakeholders in Intl schools - u will worry!

wat if the queues for intl sch is affected by this moronic look at local schs??? I think expats should just keep to wat they are used to! we got something going & its great that enlightened expat parents are paying top dollars to get into intl schs... what more can we ask?? quality will go up eventually .... so dont rock the boat!!

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Postby road.not.taken » Sat, 26 Apr 2008 2:16 pm

martz wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:martz

I hate to tell you this, but you are so out of touch with the local school system of today you really SHOULD keep you opinions to yourself. Each time you post here you make yourself look sillier and sillier. Rote learning went out the window here when Goh Tock Chong what PM. What rock have you been under?

You sound like a old dinosaur who is getting their info out of an old Expats guide that was published in 1981. You really need to get out more.


I dont have to look at them to know what is happening- all public schs are alike everywhere - uk, us or spore - crime ridden, drugs & no real learning.

Got to nip it in the bud - u see the big picture if u are stakeholders in Intl schools - u will worry!

wat if the queues for intl sch is affected by this moronic look at local schs??? I think expats should just keep to wat they are used to! we got something going & its great that enlightened expat parents are paying top dollars to get into intl schs... what more can we ask?? quality will go up eventually .... so dont rock the boat!!


Still, I have no idea what you're talking about. Your SMSese makes you sounds like you flunked out of whatever school you were supposed to attend.

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Postby local lad » Sat, 26 Apr 2008 5:15 pm

martz wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:martz

I hate to tell you this, but you are so out of touch with the local school system of today you really SHOULD keep you opinions to yourself. Each time you post here you make yourself look sillier and sillier. Rote learning went out the window here when Goh Tock Chong what PM. What rock have you been under?

You sound like a old dinosaur who is getting their info out of an old Expats guide that was published in 1981. You really need to get out more.


I dont have to look at them to know what is happening- all public schs are alike everywhere - uk, us or spore - crime ridden, drugs & no real learning.
Got to nip it in the bud - u see the big picture if u are stakeholders in Intl schools - u will worry!

wat if the queues for intl sch is affected by this moronic look at local schs??? I think expats should just keep to wat they are used to! we got something going & its great that enlightened expat parents are paying top dollars to get into intl schs... what more can we ask?? quality will go up eventually .... so dont rock the boat!!


So I supposed martz comes from a school that does not have all the said problems but deceit , truth-masking and outright disproportional.

RNT,

I agree with you local school is not for all expats. Local school is only an alternative. I suppose the local cirriculum is not applicable out of singapore except 'survival subjects' like math , languages , science and what-have-yous.

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Ministry of Education's ExCEL Fest 2008

Postby boffenl » Fri, 16 May 2008 1:48 pm

I wanted to invite everyone interested in the changing nature of local schools to MoE's ExCEL Fest 2008. It's to be held on July 5, 2008 at the Suntec International Convention and Exhibition Centre from 9am to 8pm. Visit the event registration site to view the schedule: www.excelfest.com

Hope to see you there!

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Postby Forks » Sat, 17 May 2008 12:42 pm

I work for an International School and know a lot of colleagues in others and locals schools can be just as good as international and intl schools are not always that flash, not naming names. Case by case basis here. I would note that the local education system is different from other nations systems so if you can find a school which has a curriculum thats is close to home, its better to go for that than intl or local.

as for crime, gangs and drugs, intl schols can have those problems as well, although I dont think Singapore is the To sir with love/Dangerous minds kinda school system just yet

I think Martz has some sort of financial stake in an International School to be talking it up the way they are.

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St. Francis Methosdist School

Postby nabilalarasati » Mon, 19 May 2008 12:18 pm

Folks,
I am planning to send my childreens to attend the Sec 3 and Sec 1 to this schools as it has been promoted as as good International Schools exposure ( multi nationalities as opposed to local student only ) and the rate are more economical than the notoriusly expensive International School. Are they good in academic value ? Integrated education value? has anyone has experienced with this schools? Appreciate for sharing with me.

Cheers,

nabila
:D

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Postby taxico » Mon, 19 May 2008 2:23 pm

i think the well-ranked local schools help prepare kids for college better than International Schools.

discipline is laxer in International Schools (during my time, anyway) and it's not uncommon for young kids at International Schools to go wild at night, during weekends and at parties, earlier than they should be...

but if you intend to move during the crucial non-bridging years of your child's education, you may do better by planning the sort of school he/she goes to.

nevertheless, schools all over the world these days allow kids to take placement tests/exams to gauge their capability. i've known a few expat kids who attended the local singapore schools, then went back home to skip a a grade or two.

if singapore's for the long haul, you should also consider getting to better primary schools (where applicable) as somehow, those kids end up in the better secondary schools (read beginning of this post).

many singaporean kids go to American colleges at aged 17 (after "secondary 4"), so there're no issues with the local curriculum as long as you meet the pre-requisite grades and take the SATs.

most other foreign educational systems require a year for uni-prep (which is the same, as the american degree takes 4 years), again, as long as the kid meets the grades, it's a shoo-in.

should getting into local secondary schools become an issue, there're always ways for foreign students to get into independent institutions. it in the long run, it won't cost as much as tuition for International Schools.

i'm an advocate for the local system, despite it being rote and what not. it works. it is also the best way for a kid to make "normal" friends fast.

i don't think this should simply be about which is the better choice between the two, instead it should be what (ie, where) your long term plans are and what you think your child would benefit most from.

it's your child's future; make sure you make an informed choice!

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Postby road.not.taken » Mon, 19 May 2008 3:39 pm

taxico, I realize this is only your opinion but surely you see there is another side to this, or at least that some of these observations are only half the story?

taxico wrote:i think the well-ranked local schools help prepare kids for college better than International Schools.


As long as your talking strictly academics and not life skills or common sense or creative thought. My friend interviewed a product of locals schools recently for the ivy league school he had applied to -- the applicant had never done a single extra-curricular activity other than tutoring, had no idea there were long winters where he was hoping to go, didn't know know the school was in New Hampshire, he thought it was 'warm like New Jersey'.

discipline is laxer in International Schools (during my time, anyway) and it's not uncommon for young kids at International Schools to go wild at night, during weekends and at parties, earlier than they should be...


True, administrators and teachers are still allowed to strike students at local schools and often use humiliation and shaming (if you think I'm kidding you should see the stamps they sell to teachers to use on the student's work). And international students are certainly not the only ones pushing the limits after dark. Teens are teens.

but if you intend to move during the crucial non-bridging years of your child's education, you may do better by planning the sort of school he/she goes to.


You should ALWAYS plan the school your child attends.

nevertheless, schools all over the world these days allow kids to take placement tests/exams to gauge their capability. i've known a few expat kids who attended the local singapore schools, then went back home to skip a a grade or two.


Why do we want children to skip a year or two? Where is the value in that? Heaven forbid we let them be children for a few years. There is no guarantee that socially that would be a wise thing to do. They would already be feeling very out of place without being 2 years younger. I wouldn't want my 14 year old in class with all 16 year olds.

if singapore's for the long haul, you should also consider getting to better primary schools (where applicable) as somehow, those kids end up in the better secondary schools (read beginning of this post).


Shouldn't you consider that anyway? Long haul or not?

many singaporean kids go to American colleges at aged 17 (after "secondary 4"), so there're no issues with the local curriculum as long as you meet the pre-requisite grades and take the SATs.


Again, that doesn't mean they should.

most other foreign educational systems require a year for uni-prep (which is the same, as the american degree takes 4 years), again, as long as the kid meets the grades, it's a shoo-in.


Thank God most US universities are looking for qualified, well-rounded people, not the over-tutored, grade obsessed kids that flooded their admission departments in the last 10 years.

should getting into local secondary schools become an issue, there're always ways for foreign students to get into independent institutions. it in the long run, it won't cost as much as tuition for International Schools.

i'm an advocate for the local system, despite it being rote and what not. it works. it is also the best way for a kid to make "normal" friends fast.


What can that possibly mean?

i don't think this should simply be about which is the better choice between the two, instead it should be what (ie, where) your long term plans are and what you think your child would benefit most from.

it's your child's future; make sure you make an informed choice!


Well, at least there we agree.

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Postby hiking out » Mon, 19 May 2008 9:19 pm

True, administrators and teachers are still allowed to strike students at local schools and often use humiliation and shaming (if you think I'm kidding you should see the stamps they sell to teachers to use on the student's work).


Where did you get that from? Teacher here can get the sack for hitting students, or at the very least reprimanded, transferred out of teaching etc.

As long as your talking strictly academics and not life skills or common sense or creative thought. My friend interviewed a product of locals schools recently for the ivy league school he had applied to -- the applicant had never done a single extra-curricular activity other than tutoring, had no idea there were long winters where he was hoping to go, didn't know know the school was in New Hampshire, he thought it was 'warm like New Jersey'.




Instead of a sample size of one, you might want to study these figures from an article in the May 6, 2004 edition of the Wall Street Journal:

...The school (Raffles Junior College, one of the schools taxico referred to) has plenty of reason to celebrate. Over 40% of the 820 students who graduated in December have been accepted by top U.S. universities. About half of that group will attend elite, Ivy League schools. Cornell University alone accepted 90 of Ms. Teh's classmates; Duke University accepted another 24. Dozens of others this year have been accepted by Britain's Oxford and Cambridge........

....Today's Raffles is an Ivy League machine. A recent Wall Street Journal survey of high schools that feed elite U.S. colleges focused on U.S. schools and thus didn't include Raffles. Adding International Schools, that list shows that Raffles sent more students to 10 elite colleges than any other International School and topped such prestigious U.S. secondary schools as Choate Rosemary Hall in Wallingford, Conn., and Harvard-Westlake, in North Hollywood, Calif. "It's very satisfying," says Winston James Hodge, the school's principal and a Singaporean like most of the faculty.

In case it is not obvious to you, road.not.taken, except for the first and last sentence of the preceeding paragraph, the quotes from The Wall Street Journal article, reproduced here, are not opinions.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge

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Postby local lad » Mon, 19 May 2008 10:19 pm

taxico wrote:i think the well-ranked local schools help prepare kids for college better than International Schools.

discipline is laxer in International Schools (during my time, anyway) and it's not uncommon for young kids at International Schools to go wild at night, during weekends and at parties, earlier than they should be...



taxico,

As a product of local education, it would be heartening to read such comments. Makes me feel proud for a moment. Then, I realised this is solely your opinion.

I would not make such a bold comment , putting down the International Schools here. You are comparing good local schools with International School in general. How much are neighborhood schools flare against them? That would be a interesting measure.

Bottomline, every school has its own ways of churning out bright students. If the school is just a 'holding area' for kids, then it is not worth mentioning it.

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Postby road.not.taken » Tue, 20 May 2008 6:29 am

hiking out wrote:
True, administrators and teachers are still allowed to strike students at local schools and often use humiliation and shaming (if you think I'm kidding you should see the stamps they sell to teachers to use on the student's work).


Where did you get that from? Teacher here can get the sack for hitting students, or at the very least reprimanded, transferred out of teaching etc.

As long as your talking strictly academics and not life skills or common sense or creative thought. My friend interviewed a product of locals schools recently for the ivy league school he had applied to -- the applicant had never done a single extra-curricular activity other than tutoring, had no idea there were long winters where he was hoping to go, didn't know know the school was in New Hampshire, he thought it was 'warm like New Jersey'.




Instead of a sample size of one, you might want to study these figures from an article in the May 6, 2004 edition of the Wall Street Journal:

...The school (Raffles Junior College, one of the schools taxico referred to) has plenty of reason to celebrate. Over 40% of the 820 students who graduated in December have been accepted by top U.S. universities. About half of that group will attend elite, Ivy League schools. Cornell University alone accepted 90 of Ms. Teh's classmates; Duke University accepted another 24. Dozens of others this year have been accepted by Britain's Oxford and Cambridge........

....Today's Raffles is an Ivy League machine. A recent Wall Street Journal survey of high schools that feed elite U.S. colleges focused on U.S. schools and thus didn't include Raffles. Adding International Schools, that list shows that Raffles sent more students to 10 elite colleges than any other International School and topped such prestigious U.S. secondary schools as Choate Rosemary Hall in Wallingford, Conn., and Harvard-Westlake, in North Hollywood, Calif. "It's very satisfying," says Winston James Hodge, the school's principal and a Singaporean like most of the faculty.

In case it is not obvious to you, road.not.taken, except for the first and last sentence of the preceeding paragraph, the quotes from The Wall Street Journal article, reproduced here, are not opinions.


If you google 'corporal punishment in Singapore' or 'discipline in Singapore schools' you will find many references to the practice of caning and teachers who use techniques to punish students which seem overly severe to some parents. Some parents, not all. Some parents don't mind their children learning under a threat of violence, the same parents probably hit or threaten to hit their children at home.

What this decision comes down to, is what works best for the child and their family. In my opinion, taxico left out a lot, I tried to give another viewpoint.

Hiking out, my sample size is 'bigger than 1', thanks, and your data is impressive, but out of date, compiled in 2003 to be published in 2004. The tide is just starting to turn-- if you speak to admissions people, college counselors, they'll confirm this.

Local lad -- a neighborhood school may be brilliant and exactly the right school for any number of students -- even compared to the best private school. It depends on the student and their family and their circumstances. But if the goal is to 'skip grades' then I don't want any part of it.

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Postby taxico » Tue, 20 May 2008 3:55 pm

of course i left out a lotta stuff and of course this is my personal opinion!

my "one-sided" quip was based on previous (to mine) comments on this thread as there seem to be a lotta advice thrown all over the place.

i won't get into what my ORIGINAL (but deleted) reply was, but will try to re-cap my previous post a lil (since i have a habit of rambling):

1. local schools aren't that bad (and if you can, get into the better ones cos they get a kid into college easier).

2. don't just take a local vs int'l sch comparison (see what the parents' long term plans are towards making the best decision for their child's education).

what i did leave out was that there're differences between the various scholastic systems employed in both the international and domestic schools of singapore. locally, they have throughtrain and O's/A's and IB and what not now. and how many International Schools are there in singapore? which system is the "best choice"?

this was never an issue about skipping grades or being an all-rounded student. i never said going to a local school would make a kid all that.

if you want a kid to be all-rounded and genuinely interested in serving the community, it takes more than going to the right school or talking to the right guidance counselor. i think the parents play a large part from day 1, not a job for teachers or the school.

what i'm saying is, if you stuck a kid in a decent singapore school, he/she'd make it into college easier.

i shall also add that since i first got to singapore at aged 8, i've been through 2 International Schools and 4 local schools in singapore (both good and bad ones - i've been kicked out a coupla times, including from the top 2 all boys' schools) yet i successfully graduated from a NY med school a few years ago.

what you need to understand is that i only made it as an awful awful spoilt senseless american kid who loves getting into fights and trouble and trying to do things before my time, to someone with half an oz of sense and maturity now because of that last school i went into.

it was not a "branded" school (wasn't anywhere even near the top 20 schools), but that humble place did me a lot of good, even though the teaching methods left much to be desired.

caning, cultural issues, pastoral care, personal growth, method of instructions and syllabus aside, i don't think going to one of the better local singapore school can be a bad thing.

--

i can recall easily that during my teens, my dad finally found out i was shoplifting, he did what any american dad would do.

he opened up a big ole can of whoop ass. that's a day i still remember vividly RIGHT NOW.

i've also been caned in the singapore school system. those rods? NO BIG DEAL. my old man's belt taught me a lesson. being caned in school did nothing for me.

if kids these days can learn a lesson after being caned with those flimsy things, I SAY ALL THE BETTER. CANE AWAY.

--

what did i mean about making friends faster in local schools? the singapore kids aren't as wary about making friends compared to the kids from International Schools. they are friendlier. i think that's pretty important to a child.

--

the bad local school and International School comparison cannot be made fairly, so i won't.

i don't blame the system. independent schools set higher fees and have a separate employment system. i believe International Schools charge even more.

i can only say that i KNOW for a fact if you stick around with people who make an effort to study, you'll study more.

at the better local schools, you get less kids who are constantly figuring out how to effectively commit (hopefully) petty crimes.

--

i won't say much more than this, cos i don't think this is an issue that can be concluded. i've said my piece and peace.

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Postby road.not.taken » Tue, 20 May 2008 6:33 pm

taxico wrote:i won't say much more than this, cos i don't think this is an issue that can be concluded. i've said my piece and peace.


Wow, all I can say is I'm happy to agree to disagree. No wait! One more thing: thanks. :D


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