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Air traffic controller

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Akyx
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Re: Air traffic controller

Postby Akyx » Fri, 12 May 2017 11:23 pm

Thanks for the responses :'>

Since the general consensus is that the reply timings might range from 1 month to...6 months (seeing that someone said that they might push me back a batch); I guess I'll just have to apply for other jobs in the meantime. I'll be sad if I'm put in a position where a job requires me to choose between an immediate job offer and the less-certain ATC one.

cheers!

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Re: Air traffic controller

Postby ahboy25 » Sat, 13 May 2017 12:58 am

Akyx wrote:Thanks for the responses :'>

Since the general consensus is that the reply timings might range from 1 month to...6 months (seeing that someone said that they might push me back a batch); I guess I'll just have to apply for other jobs in the meantime. I'll be sad if I'm put in a position where a job requires me to choose between an immediate job offer and the less-certain ATC one.

cheers!


Don't worry about it. I was in your shoes once, and it was nerve wrecking for me (I'm sure for everyone else as well), which is why I hope to be able to help because honestly, there isn't really much info out there on the process(ya I've tried googling and reading everything on page 1 of the results xD)

I was pushed back as well (half a year) and all I can say is that I'm glad I waited (but by all means apply or other jobs as well).

Getting selected is only a step in the direction of a rewarding career(from what I'm seeing so far). Note, career, not a job. When training starts, it is not going to be easy

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Re: Air traffic controller

Postby Akyx » Sat, 13 May 2017 12:18 pm

ahboy25 wrote:
Akyx wrote:Thanks for the responses :'>

Since the general consensus is that the reply timings might range from 1 month to...6 months (seeing that someone said that they might push me back a batch); I guess I'll just have to apply for other jobs in the meantime. I'll be sad if I'm put in a position where a job requires me to choose between an immediate job offer and the less-certain ATC one.

cheers!


Don't worry about it. I was in your shoes once, and it was nerve wrecking for me (I'm sure for everyone else as well), which is why I hope to be able to help because honestly, there isn't really much info out there on the process(ya I've tried googling and reading everything on page 1 of the results xD)

I was pushed back as well (half a year) and all I can say is that I'm glad I waited (but by all means apply or other jobs as well).

Getting selected is only a step in the direction of a rewarding career(from what I'm seeing so far). Note, career, not a job. When training starts, it is not going to be easy


Thank you so much, you've been really helpful. During your 6 months of waiting, were you left uncertain as to whether you were confirmed to begin training? Or were you confirmed, but just waiting for training to begin (in which case the uncertainty is whether or not you would've passed the training phase). Were you also applying for other jobs during that period?

I'm so glad that you're in a career you find rewarding; and that you passed out of a training that I heard has a...40%(?) drop out/failure rate! :D

ahboy25
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Re: Air traffic controller

Postby ahboy25 » Sat, 13 May 2017 1:19 pm

Akyx wrote:
ahboy25 wrote:
Akyx wrote:Thanks for the responses :'>

Since the general consensus is that the reply timings might range from 1 month to...6 months (seeing that someone said that they might push me back a batch); I guess I'll just have to apply for other jobs in the meantime. I'll be sad if I'm put in a position where a job requires me to choose between an immediate job offer and the less-certain ATC one.

cheers!


Don't worry about it. I was in your shoes once, and it was nerve wrecking for me (I'm sure for everyone else as well), which is why I hope to be able to help because honestly, there isn't really much info out there on the process(ya I've tried googling and reading everything on page 1 of the results xD)

I was pushed back as well (half a year) and all I can say is that I'm glad I waited (but by all means apply or other jobs as well).

Getting selected is only a step in the direction of a rewarding career(from what I'm seeing so far). Note, career, not a job. When training starts, it is not going to be easy


Thank you so much, you've been really helpful. During your 6 months of waiting, were you left uncertain as to whether you were confirmed to begin training? Or were you confirmed, but just waiting for training to begin (in which case the uncertainty is whether or not you would've passed the training phase). Were you also applying for other jobs during that period?

I'm so glad that you're in a career you find rewarding; and that you passed out of a training that I heard has a...40%(?) drop out/failure rate! :D


To be honest, I waited for more than 6 months. Because I was pushed back, my application process started about 8 months before I was finally confirmed. During this period I wasn't confirmed for the job, just invited to first interview, orientation, second interview. In fact I was applying for other jobs, went for other interviews, but still held on to this one.

I haven't passed out of training haha! As much as people say there's a % of failing and so on, you just got to give your best during training, be very willing to learn (many of us are from total unrelated industries coming in, or fresh graduates). The learning curve is steep but that is where you have your batch mates to help each other. From what I see, instructors are not out to kick people out, they just want to be sure that you are well prepared for the different scenarios you might face in your course of work. Think of it this way, if you aren't subjected to a (controlled) pressured environment, how do you think you'll perform during live traffic where anything/everything can happen?

Having a failure/dropout rate is just statistics, there have been batches where everyone has passed as well. Matter of perspective. Just my 2 cents worth :)

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Re: Air traffic controller

Postby Toofle » Sat, 13 May 2017 6:44 pm

Thanks for sharing your experiences! Can I ask what's the facility tour/orientation about? The purpose, etc. It sounds really interesting and unique, but... there is still a final interview after that right? Wouldn't it make more sense to do the tour after the final interview,because you may still get cut after that.

ahboy25
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Re: Air traffic controller

Postby ahboy25 » Sat, 13 May 2017 10:25 pm

Toofle wrote:Thanks for sharing your experiences! Can I ask what's the facility tour/orientation about? The purpose, etc. It sounds really interesting and unique, but... there is still a final interview after that right? Wouldn't it make more sense to do the tour after the final interview,because you may still get cut after that.


I wondered about that too, didn't really make much sense to me either. But we've deduced that it is probably just to show you your future working place, and the place where you'll be spending up to to 3/4 of a year at. Some people might get intimidated (or attracted to) by the place, which again, i don't see how, because all of it looks really good. There could be some who might feel that the overall working environment might not be what they make it out to be? (ATCs don't only work in the control tower at changi airport XD)

FYI don't be too fazed by the big shots at the final interview. Titles and all may seem very intimidating (director of ...., chief of....), but just be yourself and everything will be fine, after all, they are are all human and also really nice people to talk to as well. It seemed like second interview was more of a formality for a handful of us? but then again don't take my word for it.

I'll gladly share as much as i can, only because i was in your shoes once, and there really wasn't much help online.

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Re: Air traffic controller

Postby Toofle » Sat, 13 May 2017 10:44 pm

ahboy25 wrote:
Toofle wrote:Thanks for sharing your experiences! Can I ask what's the facility tour/orientation about? The purpose, etc. It sounds really interesting and unique, but... there is still a final interview after that right? Wouldn't it make more sense to do the tour after the final interview,because you may still get cut after that.


I wondered about that too, didn't really make much sense to me either. But we've deduced that it is probably just to show you your future working place, and the place where you'll be spending up to to 3/4 of a year at. Some people might get intimidated (or attracted to) by the place, which again, i don't see how, because all of it looks really good. There could be some who might feel that the overall working environment might not be what they make it out to be? (ATCs don't only work in the control tower at changi airport XD)

FYI don't be too fazed by the big shots at the final interview. Titles and all may seem very intimidating (director of ...., chief of....), but just be yourself and everything will be fine, after all, they are are all human and also really nice people to talk to as well. It seemed like second interview was more of a formality for a handful of us? but then again don't take my word for it.

I'll gladly share as much as i can, only because i was in your shoes once, and there really wasn't much help online.



Ahh I see. Speaking of working environments, I understand that it is down to which stream you are posted to after the training (aerodrome, area, approach). Is there a common consensus among the trainees as to which is the "best" stream? Like, for eg. do most people want to be streamed to aerodrome so they can work in the tower? Not like it makes a difference though, as it's probably down to the test results (right?) and not preference, but just curious xD

Yeah the interviews are really something. During my first interview, I was pretty nervous but they talked like normal people, thankfully. I had quite a nice chat with them, but I'm not sure if I have ticked their boxes- you never know in these interviews. How confident were you after you walked out of the interview room (the first time)? Were there any signs that "things went well", etc? Did you fully expect to proceed to the next stage? Thanks again!

ahboy25
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Re: Air traffic controller

Postby ahboy25 » Sun, 14 May 2017 12:43 am

Toofle wrote:Ahh I see. Speaking of working environments, I understand that it is down to which stream you are posted to after the training (aerodrome, area, approach). Is there a common consensus among the trainees as to which is the "best" stream? Like, for eg. do most people want to be streamed to aerodrome so they can work in the tower? Not like it makes a difference though, as it's probably down to the test results (right?) and not preference, but just curious xD

Yeah the interviews are really something. During my first interview, I was pretty nervous but they talked like normal people, thankfully. I had quite a nice chat with them, but I'm not sure if I have ticked their boxes- you never know in these interviews. How confident were you after you walked out of the interview room (the first time)? Were there any signs that "things went well", etc? Did you fully expect to proceed to the next stage? Thanks again!


There really isn't a "best" stream so to speak? At the end of the day, it all boils down to individual preference and what you think you could be good at. Once you get in to the primary course, you'll get a glimpse of what to expect for area, approach and aerodrome. I did pose that question to the directors (during an informal setting of course) and the answer really is pretty much the same, and as what i see now, it makes sense. Each stream has it's individual challenges, so it's only as difficult as you make it out to be. You've got to find out what works for you. Even then, like i said, the instructors aren't out to make your life difficult, if you're having difficulties for any of the modules, they'll be able to help.

The trick about these interviews is that, if you left feeling like "that wasn't so bad" or "that went well", then it probably did. We (trainees) came to the conclusion that they probably want to see how interested are you in the job, how long would you most likely stay in the job, and also to check certain characteristic traits about the individual (since you've already passed the aptitude test). When i left the first interview, I left feeling "that could've gone better" and "shit, i should not have said that", so i guess you're doing a little better than i did during the interview haha! I can't say that i was even 80% confident of moving to the next stage. I reached the point where i was certain i didn't get through, and was that close to dropping them an email to check on my status. So there's a gauge for you on how well you did for your interview haha. I banked on being slightly witty during the interview i guessed that helped? heh.

And again, no worries! i'm more than glad to answer your questions!

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Re: Air traffic controller

Postby Aeoz » Mon, 15 May 2017 2:21 am

Hi, looking for some advice.
i will be going for the aptitude test next in a weeks' time! Trying to look for some samples of the aptitude test and found several variations.
Any idea what's in it? How can we better prepare ourselves for it?
Thanks!

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Re: Air traffic controller

Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 15 May 2017 6:00 am

Aeoz wrote:Hi, looking for some advice.
i will be going for the aptitude test next in a weeks' time! Trying to look for some samples of the aptitude test and found several variations.
Any idea what's in it? How can we better prepare ourselves for it?
Thanks!



Mate, it's an APTITUDE test... you know... how well suited you are emotionally, spatially, detailed oriented, etc. Trying to study for this test is like trying to study for a urine test.

ahboy25
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Re: Air traffic controller

Postby ahboy25 » Mon, 15 May 2017 6:58 am

Aeoz wrote:Hi, looking for some advice.
i will be going for the aptitude test next in a weeks' time! Trying to look for some samples of the aptitude test and found several variations.
Any idea what's in it? How can we better prepare ourselves for it?
Thanks!



Most aptitude tests are pretty much the same. If you remember the aptitude test you did before entering NS? Similar. Just that it's not ALL similar. Number patterns, picture patterns, how well you follow instructions, your reaction and judgement time, how well you FOLLOW instructions... I can't remember the exact tests but it's along those lines. Note that it's going to be about 3hrs long, so obviously they're going to test your endurance and how well you process information over prolonged periods of time. Not to worry, the test is broken up into segments, all segments are all timed to see how fast you take per segment (then again, it does not mean that if you do not complete any one segment, you fail). Then there's the personality test... which, well pretty much speaks for itself and can't really be practiced. They want to see how well you handle a given situation. Think, you're applying for an job in ATC... so what kind of personality would you need? (Hint hint)

I think it's not so much practicing for it (of course you can and probably should), but just do your best during the test. It's going to be fine, after all I tried to do what you did, difference is, I wasn't able to find that many practice aptitude tests to do, more like "go in and hope for the best".

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Re: Air traffic controller

Postby Toofle » Mon, 15 May 2017 2:08 pm

ahboy25 wrote:
Toofle wrote:Ahh I see. Speaking of working environments, I understand that it is down to which stream you are posted to after the training (aerodrome, area, approach). Is there a common consensus among the trainees as to which is the "best" stream? Like, for eg. do most people want to be streamed to aerodrome so they can work in the tower? Not like it makes a difference though, as it's probably down to the test results (right?) and not preference, but just curious xD

Yeah the interviews are really something. During my first interview, I was pretty nervous but they talked like normal people, thankfully. I had quite a nice chat with them, but I'm not sure if I have ticked their boxes- you never know in these interviews. How confident were you after you walked out of the interview room (the first time)? Were there any signs that "things went well", etc? Did you fully expect to proceed to the next stage? Thanks again!


There really isn't a "best" stream so to speak? At the end of the day, it all boils down to individual preference and what you think you could be good at. Once you get in to the primary course, you'll get a glimpse of what to expect for area, approach and aerodrome. I did pose that question to the directors (during an informal setting of course) and the answer really is pretty much the same, and as what i see now, it makes sense. Each stream has it's individual challenges, so it's only as difficult as you make it out to be. You've got to find out what works for you. Even then, like i said, the instructors aren't out to make your life difficult, if you're having difficulties for any of the modules, they'll be able to help.

The trick about these interviews is that, if you left feeling like "that wasn't so bad" or "that went well", then it probably did. We (trainees) came to the conclusion that they probably want to see how interested are you in the job, how long would you most likely stay in the job, and also to check certain characteristic traits about the individual (since you've already passed the aptitude test). When i left the first interview, I left feeling "that could've gone better" and "shit, i should not have said that", so i guess you're doing a little better than i did during the interview haha! I can't say that i was even 80% confident of moving to the next stage. I reached the point where i was certain i didn't get through, and was that close to dropping them an email to check on my status. So there's a gauge for you on how well you did for your interview haha. I banked on being slightly witty during the interview i guessed that helped? heh.

And again, no worries! i'm more than glad to answer your questions!


Ahh I see. Well, I think i could have done a lot better in assuaging their concerns about whether I'm in in for the long term (which I am, of course). Do you think a candidate who applied for this as his first aviation related job would be viewed unfavourably against someone who grew up in the Youth Flying Club,& applied to other jobs in the aviation industry etc.? How about you personally? (Did you apply for other aviation related jobs and let them know during the interview?)

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Re: Air traffic controller

Postby ahboy25 » Mon, 15 May 2017 4:49 pm

Toofle wrote: Ahh I see. Well, I think i could have done a lot better in assuaging their concerns about whether I'm in in for the long term (which I am, of course). Do you think a candidate who applied for this as his first aviation related job would be viewed unfavourably against someone who grew up in the Youth Flying Club,& applied to other jobs in the aviation industry etc.? How about you personally? (Did you apply for other aviation related jobs and let them know during the interview?)


Well, look at it this way, if you were the interviewer, would you be satisfied with the answer you gave? If you can be moderately satisfied or more, than you'll be fine.

To answer your question, of course anyone who has a background in aviation would definitely have an advantage. Just like how if you applied for pilot, and you used to fly. Of course you'll be considered. But consider this, unless you were a military controller, there's pretty much zero exposure to ATC in a civilian aspect. Think about how you're able to relate past working experiences/learning experiences and how it can be applied to being an ATC. I graduated with a marketing degree, worked in 2 jobs totally unrelated to the aviation industry.
During the interview, I was posed with that question of whether I had applied for other jobs and also what would I do if I didn't get the job. I told them I did apply for other jobs (signing on army/police), but my first choice is still ATC. If I didn't get the job, I would of course find other jobs, but not before I reapplied for ATC multiple times (I have to say that was a nice save XD). BUT, answer their question plus a little more. Don't blabber on and on.

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Re: Air traffic controller

Postby Toofle » Mon, 15 May 2017 5:37 pm

ahboy25 wrote:Well, look at it this way, if you were the interviewer, would you be satisfied with the answer you gave? If you can be moderately satisfied or more, than you'll be fine.

To answer your question, of course anyone who has a background in aviation would definitely have an advantage. Just like how if you applied for pilot, and you used to fly. Of course you'll be considered. But consider this, unless you were a military controller, there's pretty much zero exposure to ATC in a civilian aspect. Think about how you're able to relate past working experiences/learning experiences and how it can be applied to being an ATC. I graduated with a marketing degree, worked in 2 jobs totally unrelated to the aviation industry.
During the interview, I was posed with that question of whether I had applied for other jobs and also what would I do if I didn't get the job. I told them I did apply for other jobs (signing on army/police), but my first choice is still ATC. If I didn't get the job, I would of course find other jobs, but not before I reapplied for ATC multiple times (I have to say that was a nice save XD). BUT, answer their question plus a little more. Don't blabber on and on.


I see. That's kinda reassuring. I was posed with the same question too, that's why I had this concern. I told them that I am seeking to settle down in a career for the long term which will provide training and learning opportunities, and all my other job applications are consistent with that requirement. I guess they would be fairly satisfied with my answer. Though I think it would serve me well to have mentioned that ATC is still my first choice. Wonder how I managed to not have said that hahah xD.

But oh well, it's already done. Just hoping its enough to get through. ](*,)

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Re: Air traffic controller

Postby ahboy25 » Mon, 15 May 2017 5:56 pm

Toofle wrote:
ahboy25 wrote:Well, look at it this way, if you were the interviewer, would you be satisfied with the answer you gave? If you can be moderately satisfied or more, than you'll be fine.

To answer your question, of course anyone who has a background in aviation would definitely have an advantage. Just like how if you applied for pilot, and you used to fly. Of course you'll be considered. But consider this, unless you were a military controller, there's pretty much zero exposure to ATC in a civilian aspect. Think about how you're able to relate past working experiences/learning experiences and how it can be applied to being an ATC. I graduated with a marketing degree, worked in 2 jobs totally unrelated to the aviation industry.
During the interview, I was posed with that question of whether I had applied for other jobs and also what would I do if I didn't get the job. I told them I did apply for other jobs (signing on army/police), but my first choice is still ATC. If I didn't get the job, I would of course find other jobs, but not before I reapplied for ATC multiple times (I have to say that was a nice save XD). BUT, answer their question plus a little more. Don't blabber on and on.


I see. That's kinda reassuring. I was posed with the same question too, that's why I had this concern. I told them that I am seeking to settle down in a career for the long term which will provide training and learning opportunities, and all my other job applications are consistent with that requirement. I guess they would be fairly satisfied with my answer. Though I think it would serve me well to have mentioned that ATC is still my first choice. Wonder how I managed to not have said that hahah xD.

But oh well, it's already done. Just hoping its enough to get through. ](*,)


I told them that I was tired of having to find a job and this is the one that I want to settle down with. Which led them to ask me where I see myself in 5 years time. To which I answered, "5 years is not in my considerations, my plans are 10-20 years and even possibly to retirement. But to answer you about 5 years into the job... etc..." XD

The only consolation is, it's over. Put it past you, and hope for the best haha! Once you get to 2nd interview, everything should be fine. It was pretty much conversational, not so much an interview. BUT, don't take my word for it haha


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