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Air traffic controller

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jencrs
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Postby jencrs » Tue, 11 Mar 2008 7:10 pm

Well at least some of them's gotta be in the control tower, so that they are able to see the aircraft visually, in the air and on the ground.

pamie
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Postby pamie » Wed, 12 Mar 2008 9:54 am

jencrs wrote:Well at least some of them's gotta be in the control tower, so that they are able to see the aircraft visually, in the air and on the ground.


hee hee.. mayb... nt v v sure though :D
~ pamie pamie pamie ~

chooniE
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Postby chooniE » Sat, 12 Apr 2008 6:01 pm

hello! jus wondering if any of you out there who has applied for ATC, has receive the invitation for the apitute test? cos i jus read from their web that if you haf met their min. requirement, they will invite for the test. but i havent receive any invitation yet.

btw, jus incase i misunderstood, their min. requirement should be the A lvls qualification rite? i haf a diploma. :-|

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Postby Plavt » Sat, 12 Apr 2008 6:41 pm

chooniE wrote:hello! jus wondering if any of you out there who has applied for ATC, has receive the invitation for the apitute test? cos i jus read from their web that if you haf met their min. requirement, they will invite for the test. but i havent receive any invitation yet.

btw, jus incase i misunderstood, their min. requirement should be the A lvls qualification rite? i haf a diploma. :-|


Hate me if you must, but I hope you did not write like that when you wrote your application. An Air Traffic Controller is one of the most difficult jobs to acquire and there are few are capable of it. Therefore you can expect the selection to be extremely severe so you have to be meticulous in your application and your work should you be lucky enough to be offered a position.

ye_lavinia
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Postby ye_lavinia » Sun, 13 Apr 2008 11:59 am

For those who want to know the process, here it is:

-Send in online application
-HR will call you if they want you to go down for the computer aptitude test
-Go down to take the test, which is around 2 hours, including a very long personlity test (just grade yourelf from 1-5 scale that kind)
-HR will call you again if you pass the aptitude test and want you for an interview
-There's 2 rounds of interviews.

-HR will call again if you're cleared. And you can move on from there.

Points about the job:
-It's all shift work. The shift hours are listed on the CAAS site. Can look around there.
-The training period is LONG>
-->3 months of theory training
-->Attachment period (this may vary. Cos the training dates are laid down by the Academy, and the trainees will be thrown into attachment in between)
-->Around 3 to 4 months of simulator training
-->On-Job-Training. This will take AT LEAST 4 to 5 months. Previously, the rule was that, if a trainee still CMI by 6 months, he/she will be OUT. But now, the dept is kinda desparate for people, so there're cases which stretches way over 6 months and are still stuck there.

Pay-wise, it's quite alrite for MALE poly persons, cos it's more than what they can get outside. For MALE grads also, it's pretty neat, especially if you have an honours to your cert

For FEMALE, hate to spoil it for those ladies out there who're reading-- it's far less than what the males are taking. And way-lower than the outside market rate. It's JUST a teeny bit higher than the MALE poly person.

Oh, you have to sign a 6-year bond if you decide to take up the job. Bond amount is $60,000. YESH. that's a 5-digit figure on the high-side. And interest will be added also. the 6-year period DO NOT include the months you spend in the academy doing the theory and simulator training.

When you're on training (including OJT), you will take only the trainee pay. If you do pass the WHOLE training, HR will pay you a gratuity, the backpay of those months you've spent as a trainee.

Advice to all interested:
-Really ask yourself if you're damn interested, to work in a place for 6 years, and doing the same job everyday. Of course there're special cases which require more skill and thinking and planning, but 6 years is a long time and if you can't get along with the people there, you're stuck. (unless you have a freaking rich family willing and ready to pay the bond)

-Pay is a big issue. There's a 'limit' to how high the pay can go for you. And "promotion" is not exactly a word used in ATC. There're controllers in the job for over a decade and are still taking home 3k-plus.

-Shift work is not for everybody. Do consider your social and family life before signing on the contract. And if you do go through the shift hours, some of you guys will find it hard to arrange for things.

-Like I said earlier, promotion is not really there. The company website mentions that after a few years, controllers will be sent for a 2nd licence. If you pass, it's up one grade. And the pay will be adjusted to that grade. But then, you're still only a controller. To be a manager, woooo, I don't know how that works. I suppose those with 2 licences have to either work DAMN hard and good, and have all the right relations.

I know this is a long post, but hope it can provide some useful info to those who're interested in the job, and can't find anything online.

Also, these are all my personal comments. Don't punch me if you disagree.

chooniE
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Postby chooniE » Sun, 13 Apr 2008 6:42 pm

Plavt wrote:
chooniE wrote:hello! jus wondering if any of you out there who has applied for ATC, has receive the invitation for the apitute test? cos i jus read from their web that if you haf met their min. requirement, they will invite for the test. but i havent receive any invitation yet.

btw, jus incase i misunderstood, their min. requirement should be the A lvls qualification rite? i haf a diploma. :-|


Hate me if you must, but I hope you did not write like that when you wrote your application. An Air Traffic Controller is one of the most difficult jobs to acquire and there are few are capable of it. Therefore you can expect the selection to be extremely severe so you have to be meticulous in your application and your work should you be lucky enough to be offered a position.


nope. i didnt write this in my application. i send in online at CAAS web so i do not and will not write all this. jus got anxious as i didnt receive any notice because from CAAS web, it says once the applicant meets the min. requirement, they will be invited for tests. :)

i understand the heavy-responsibility-nature of this job and this is partly why i wana be one. :) thanks for reminding mi btw. :D

chooniE
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Postby chooniE » Sun, 13 Apr 2008 6:48 pm

ye_lavinia wrote:For those who want to know the process, here it is:

-Send in online application
-HR will call you if they want you to go down for the computer aptitude test
-Go down to take the test, which is around 2 hours, including a very long personlity test (just grade yourelf from 1-5 scale that kind)
-HR will call you again if you pass the aptitude test and want you for an interview
-There's 2 rounds of interviews.

-HR will call again if you're cleared. And you can move on from there.

Points about the job:
-It's all shift work. The shift hours are listed on the CAAS site. Can look around there.
-The training period is LONG>
-->3 months of theory training
-->Attachment period (this may vary. Cos the training dates are laid down by the Academy, and the trainees will be thrown into attachment in between)
-->Around 3 to 4 months of simulator training
-->On-Job-Training. This will take AT LEAST 4 to 5 months. Previously, the rule was that, if a trainee still CMI by 6 months, he/she will be OUT. But now, the dept is kinda desparate for people, so there're cases which stretches way over 6 months and are still stuck there.

Pay-wise, it's quite alrite for MALE poly persons, cos it's more than what they can get outside. For MALE grads also, it's pretty neat, especially if you have an honours to your cert

For FEMALE, hate to spoil it for those ladies out there who're reading-- it's far less than what the males are taking. And way-lower than the outside market rate. It's JUST a teeny bit higher than the MALE poly person.

Oh, you have to sign a 6-year bond if you decide to take up the job. Bond amount is $60,000. YESH. that's a 5-digit figure on the high-side. And interest will be added also. the 6-year period DO NOT include the months you spend in the academy doing the theory and simulator training.

When you're on training (including OJT), you will take only the trainee pay. If you do pass the WHOLE training, HR will pay you a gratuity, the backpay of those months you've spent as a trainee.

Advice to all interested:
-Really ask yourself if you're damn interested, to work in a place for 6 years, and doing the same job everyday. Of course there're special cases which require more skill and thinking and planning, but 6 years is a long time and if you can't get along with the people there, you're stuck. (unless you have a freaking rich family willing and ready to pay the bond)

-Pay is a big issue. There's a 'limit' to how high the pay can go for you. And "promotion" is not exactly a word used in ATC. There're controllers in the job for over a decade and are still taking home 3k-plus.

-Shift work is not for everybody. Do consider your social and family life before signing on the contract. And if you do go through the shift hours, some of you guys will find it hard to arrange for things.

-Like I said earlier, promotion is not really there. The company website mentions that after a few years, controllers will be sent for a 2nd licence. If you pass, it's up one grade. And the pay will be adjusted to that grade. But then, you're still only a controller. To be a manager, woooo, I don't know how that works. I suppose those with 2 licences have to either work DAMN hard and good, and have all the right relations.

I know this is a long post, but hope it can provide some useful info to those who're interested in the job, and can't find anything online.

Also, these are all my personal comments. Don't punch me if you disagree.


yup! it's realli a long post and i do agree with you. jus that i dun understand why females get lesser. but not reali impt though. :) u seems to noe alot.. are u one? :o

ye_lavinia
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Postby ye_lavinia » Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:15 pm

For those interested in the job, can post here, and I'll try to answer the best I can.

The male-female ratio in ATC in quite bad. Not a big surprise, cos most ladies won't consider this job in the first place since there's not much 'publicity'. Also, like I mentioned, the pay is way below what outside companies are paying.

If you do get to talk to the younger controllers, you will realise that a lot of them are stuck in the job not because they like it, but because they're bonded.

Advice again, really think twice before signing.

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Plavt
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Postby Plavt » Sun, 13 Apr 2008 11:51 pm

ye_lavinia wrote:Also, like I mentioned, the pay is way below what outside companies are paying.



Do you mean the pay for solely for females is below what other companies are paying? Terrible sexism if so, in the UK the pay would be the same irrespective of sex and is amongst the highest (£42K-£60)

For comparison copy paste this into Google; 'Air Traffic Controller, pay' (sorry can't post a link at present for some reason)

ye_lavinia
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Postby ye_lavinia » Mon, 14 Apr 2008 1:47 am

About the pay, well, Singapore ATC controllers are earning far less than what other countries' controllers are.

This is roughly how it works. (All amounts are BEFORE CPF deductions)

Once you start hte first day of service, the probation of TWO years starts. Note: When you start service= start first day of theory training, you're STILL NOT serving any part of the 6-year bond. (Cos you're considered in in school, not working yet.)

When you're in the whole period of training, including OJT, male degree holders get $1800, females $1500. Male diploma holders $1500 and females $1200. per month.

After you pass training, which could be say... after 15 of 16 months (using the timeline I provided in the earlier post), you get a full pay. And HR will give you the gratuity amount, which is the money they 'owe' you while you were in training.

But note again-- This pay, after training and before you pass the 2-year probation mark, is still not complete. Once you pass the 2-year mark, you pay will then be adjusted to the rate of an ATCO. (Air traffic control officer) In the first 2 years, you're just a PATCO (probationary).

Kinda messy, but I'll try my best to explain. It's like.. for example:
-Start on the 1st of January, probation starts. Trainee takes home between $1200 to $1800 depending on educational level, before CPF deductions.

-Say trainee manage to pass OJT in April the FOLLOWING year, he/she will get a PATCO pay. This is of course higher than the pathetic trainee pay they've been getting for over one year-plus.

-Comes 1st January the 3rd year, when the trainee is officially an ATCO, completed probation, his/her pay will be adjusted higher again, to the actual payscale. But this difference will not be as much as from the Trainee==>PATCO difference. (Like I mentioned, there's a limit as to how much a controller can earn.)

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to disclose the pay amounts here, but this is a rough guide--

The pay which a male degree holder (with honours) will get AFTER training, but still within probation, is in the high 2ks. A male degree holder will get around mid 2k.

For ladies with a degree, trust me, is not even 2k.

Yes, that's true. You can imagine, after one-year plus of training, you're still not even taking home $2000, before CPF. And if that's for female degree holders, you can do the math for female diploma holders.

Once again, this is my comments only and for reference to all those thinking of applying or already did. Please continue to try if you feel like you really have passion for this job and are willing to go through the long training periods with that pay. But for those with family and financial considerations, please consult with your family first.

It's always easy to say that people should choose a job because of passion and not of money. But when it comes to reality, and all your frens are earning bigger money outside, having fun on weekends and stuff, you might feel like, it's not so worth it at the end of the day.

Just my comments.

chooniE
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Postby chooniE » Mon, 14 Apr 2008 1:58 pm

ye_lavinia

are you an ATC with CAAS? hmmm.. i guess the difference in pay between gender may be due to the guys' 2years national service? but i din expect the diff to be this big. ha! hmmm...

Passion Guy
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Postby Passion Guy » Thu, 29 May 2008 2:32 pm

ye_lavinia

Thank you for all your advices given.. =)

But do you know how many points should one get for the screening test in order to pass? Thanks!

ye_lavinia
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Postby ye_lavinia » Fri, 30 May 2008 3:16 am

Not sure which part of the screening you mean. After HR review your online application and find your educational level OK, they'll call you to go for an aptitude & computer personality test.

The applicants won't know what's the passing mark for the tests. HR will simply tell thet you'll get a call if you pass.

Just relax and go in to take the test. It's quite long and frustrating, cos once you start the thing, you can't pause for a loo break. By the time you're half done, your patience might be lost already. :mad:

Passion Guy
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Postby Passion Guy » Fri, 30 May 2008 1:36 pm

Ya i mean the aptitude & computer personality test. =) i have done that.. and really cant stop in the process.. =) But i did not pass the test.. =(

So you managed to pass the test on first attempt? :) Do you know when can i apply for the test again?? Thanks for your advice..

ye_lavinia
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Postby ye_lavinia » Fri, 30 May 2008 2:45 pm

Well, I did manage to pass on my first attempt. Initially I thought I won't make it cos I did not finish the section on IQ questions..

You might want to email HR or call them to ask about a second try.

If you're really interested, try again. They're forever in need of controllers, so don't worry about "The position is filled."


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