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Postby sierra2469alpha » Sat, 02 Aug 2008 3:11 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:I once heard a very rational and plausible explanation ...

Outstanding post, WIMH. Thanks for sharing it. P&C

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sat, 02 Aug 2008 4:33 pm

P&C / sierra...alpha, thank you and you're welcome.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:While your deeper interpretations are probably correct, do you 'really' believe that the above statement is true of 90% or possibly higher of the church going population? Maybe that was the inception of religion, but I don't really believe the man in the street puts that much though into it. I feel it's an ingrained habit more than anything else, just like the hungry ghost festive activities starting to take place now. It more ingrained cultural habit than belief.

It's true that most people don't think very much as a conscious, deliberate effort. I am referring to those who do. Society is obviously made up of more followers than leaders. As long as some of those thought leaders are genuinely searching, then it's a matter of time before the man in the street catches up. There is still progress. In most of the civilised world, we no longer worship the sun, do we? (Except me, I love the dawn :) )

sundaymorningstaple wrote:So I am expected to believe that 'strong' people would not have been strong if there wasn't religion to start with? I think that might be reaching a bit personally. :wink:

You know very well that you're not expected to believe anything, least of all what I command you to believe. :P

But yes, I did mean to reach you very personally. I am indeed asking you to reach into your personal thought history and ask yourself if your current belief system has no history of religion in it, that no religious doctrine had any role in forming the way you think now. And I challenge every atheist / agnostic / non-religious person to do the same.

There is no anti-thesis without an original thesis. It is that clash of thought that provides the synthesis - a more evolved development that itself becomes thesis for the next generation of thought. In Chinese we have a saying: "yin shui si yuan" - when you drink the water, remember where it came from. Do not forget your source. Certainly do not condemn it. Who we are today is the result of many influences over a lifetime - appreciate all of it. We may have outgrown our first pair of shoes, and it does not fit us anymore. But it was part of our story - no need to ridicule it now or make it wrong for being too small for us, but celebrate its role in our growth. Understand also that someone else could use that shoe now, even be in need of it. Why grudge them its use or worse, mock them?

Sermon over, amen. (All that was written more for me than you or anyone else, by the way. It's exactly this act - of pitting one thought against another - that helps us realise what we really think, and is the point that I'm trying very clumsily to make.)

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Postby QRM » Sat, 02 Aug 2008 7:58 pm

andy21 wrote:
QRM wrote:Do church goers actually believe Jesus walked on water, and manged to make hundreds of tuna sandwiches from a small basket, or they accept its more of a story with urns full of artistic license designed to drive home a message to the uneducated populace of the time.

Some do,

If that is the case then at what point will it start to affect your professional life. While I know there is no discrimination based on race, religion, or sex. BUT

Take for example you are an employer, say the police force, and you are looking for a criminal investigation officer, you have three candidates A, B and C

Candidate A, believes it is possible to curse a fig tree and watch it wither, and create wine from water.

Candidate B, believes in Bohmoh black magic and a person can disappear with a spell

Candidate C, believes in Father Christmas and fairys

Which one would you short list ? and is there actually any difference between the way they think.? For those of you who think this a piss take, its not, I really am curious.

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Postby maneo » Sat, 02 Aug 2008 10:05 pm

^ Time to get rid of the HR department.

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Postby QRM » Mon, 04 Aug 2008 9:58 am

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Postby lordsgrace » Mon, 04 Aug 2008 4:20 pm

Hi, all
I am sorry if i said something is not nice to some reader. And God may forgive me, as He knows hearts of people. Rather than "i know myself"

Please let me say something here. I believe God and go church every week,and i do bible study as well. All those actions i cherish most is reading bible and pray in quiet time.. i was not in religion but i was in the love that Christ has given. It is a a gift by grace.

I was not born in any believes, and was taught no God in this world.However He showed me God is truth, exsiting in the hearts of whom open hearts and peaceful in mind to search Him.

here just share my spiritual journey a bit. I feel i was too much focus that myself CAN control everything of my life, and enlarge self too much that blind my eyes to realise God's awsome.I took His advantage that He wishes I am living in good, so i thought it was myself ability.

As human can be very sure they did good thing that satisfy their conscience. we did not realise how limited as we see things in one angle which is so dangerous it might become bias.
Have an example, I went on a bus, got a seat, later a woman i thought she was pregnant got on, i offered her my seat by a distance, she is so unhappy whith my body languge
( a smile face with an invitation hand) .I start think where did i do wrong?

She might be too fat, or after deliver baby, has a bigger stomach than normal lady, therefore her face appear some pale like a pregnant woman?(i am a nurse who should know how a pregnant lady look like), That seat i want it too, but I think she needs it more than I do. Many people wants that seat when i stand up..

Do i against my conscience? Is she wrong? She was offened by my human judgement "She is pregnant".i do not know how she really was, but i get the result upset me a lot,which will harm me.God teaches me to forgive, then I do not mind of her action, I wont friend satan to harm my health and emotion, this is called God's wisdom and daily protection by my cooperation with willingness to apply His words in life.

This is only a vey small example. God knows people, but people never can overlook the whole world into one picture, the both side situation.
we behave,we thought mostly according to what do we see. Another e.g.We also heard many cheating beggar actually lazy worker, and we find out this action cause us difficult to trust..
However God knows hwo is who, who are you, how are you..How can we know it and boast we behave by conscience. Maybe the conscience to a people which is harmful..If the world is just be sure with your conscience, Jesus never need to die on the cross..

By human we had been such narrow, how can we behave like" i can guarantee i was follow my own conscience". are you sure you never been selfish? are you sure you really 100% conscience with doing known good thing?

I confess I did not,could not do so, as I some time have little faith like Peter, as I some time can not forgive people.

I wanna challenge people who said believe God and believe not going church meet people from church can remain good, How can you be good by do not accept people in the church, how can you be good by looking at the darkside of the trying-be-good place church organising seeking-good people. And if you do not go church,how about read bible?If not do you know when your spirit is dry with no food and water?How do you nutrue your thoughts and soul?Please at least bible is wisdom when you use correctly you will benefit.
if you confirm without that spiritual surpport will you be continuosly nice to people who would like follow your style,and can you write a more wise book to feed them spiritualy?

I think we may be too superficial to understand God, by our subjective.. It s good to think about and read bible to just get some wisdom, before you say you believe or don't. Word says out is easy, but collect it back is too much difficult..

May God bless your heart which is a pure and holy gift to your soul.

Be blessed
Lord's Grace
god loves people, pray people will be humble turn to Him to be blessed

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Postby QRM » Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:01 pm

Hey LG not that I am being funny, how about about spending every second weekend studying English instead of the bible, that way it will be easier for you to express your feelings on these forums.

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Postby phil30k » Tue, 30 Sep 2008 12:37 am

Dear LG, QRM's advice is sound, you'll gain more converts if you expressed yourself more clearly.

Best wishes.

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