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Faith

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 02 May 2008 12:27 am

road.not.taken wrote:
Blah, blah, blah.

blah, blah.

Here's a thought! Use your words to say: this is what I think, not this is how it is. Honestly SMS, use your damn head!


Why should I say things to suit your royal highness? Use your head! I really don't give a good......... Here's a thought! Blah, blah, blah.

"I Think" you are beginning to sound like you have a permanent case of PMS. :roll:

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Postby road.not.taken » Fri, 02 May 2008 7:59 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:"I Think" you are beginning to sound like you have a permanent case of PMS. :roll:


Well, this is an improvement even if it is misogynistic. Better it is stated as an opinion rather than as fact, no matter how demeaning it is. Where did this royal highness crap come from SMS?

QRM: I'm not irritable. Is it too much to ask that people refrain from speaking of their religious beliefs as facts? It's a hard enough topic to tackle on a forum, why not level the playing field ?

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Re: ...

Postby QRM » Fri, 02 May 2008 10:50 pm

ringo100 wrote:I find it fascinating that in the 21st century there is still a large number of educated people who hold on to myth and folk law with such passion.

Thankfully, there is a clear correlation between educating the masses and the abandonment of religion.

Fortunately it is possible to appreciate the cultural value in reading stories about Zeus, Mohammed and the Trinity, without having to believe them.

Does anyone out there still believe in the Tooth Fairy or Father Christmas, or is that just too silly?


I live studied and worked in London for decades and I don’t know a single person that goes to Church.

Here in Singapore there’s a new church popping up on every corner. Is the income to fund all these buildings coming from emotionally challenged people, who hand over their hard earn cash in the hope of a better life by blindly believing biblical myths?

I realize that Singapore is only one or two generation away from third world thinking.
You can still see it almost daily in the paper that one person or another has paid a fortune to con men for black magic stones, or spiritual faith healers.

That’s what bothers me is how religion has tapped into this gullibility. They don’t present religion as a means to discover the origins of our social structures, or the interconnection between the modern major faiths. If it was used as a means to show how we are all united in some way it would save a lot of bloodshed we see today.

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Postby cutiebutie » Sat, 03 May 2008 8:47 pm

Your cultural arrogance and arrogance in general rivals that of Superglide's.
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Postby ozchick » Sun, 04 May 2008 12:53 pm

cutiebutie wrote:Your cultural arrogance and arrogance in general rivals that of Superglide's.


Sadly, some people see arrogance as a valuable trait. :-|
However, reading the posts on here prompts me to think that some just don't have the ability to word their thoughts in a meaningful and constructive manner.
And others just love to dangle the bait in the hope of a good 'battle of the posters', whether good, bad or downright ugly !
'Are you trying to tempt me because I come from the land of plenty?'

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Postby QRM » Sun, 04 May 2008 4:07 pm

ozchick wrote:
cutiebutie wrote:Your cultural arrogance and arrogance in general rivals that of Superglide's.


Sadly, some people see arrogance as a valuable trait. :-|
However, reading the posts on here prompts me to think that some just don't have the ability to word their thoughts in a meaningful and constructive manner.
And others just love to dangle the bait in the hope of a good 'battle of the posters', whether good, bad or downright ugly !


These open forums are exactly that, open to all views and opinions, every one from all walks of life can chip in with their own unique viewpoint.

The fact that that it does not fall in line with some peoples views should be actively encouraged.

If you find it difficult to accept things from a different perspective then maybe you have been in Singapore for to long.

You feel that it is acceptable to rip off emotionally vulnerable people? Faith healers, fungshui masters, fairground gypsy, priest, who asks for money from people with false promises is in my opinion wrong.

You say arrogant I say Devils advocate.

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Postby cutiebutie » Sun, 04 May 2008 4:23 pm

A devil's advocate takes the opposing view, an arrogant person is presumptuous and overbearing, defending his assumptions which he defends as 'opinion'.
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Postby QRM » Sun, 04 May 2008 6:11 pm

cutiebutie wrote:A devil's advocate takes the opposing view, an arrogant person is presumptuous and overbearing, defending his assumptions which he defends as 'opinion'.


Assumption, opinion, tomARto, tomaAto, call it what you like its still my view on the subject, and here is another view/opinion/belief/assumption/judgement.

I was in Macdonald and was told to take a seat and wait for my food (that’s another whole thread its called “fast”

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Postby cutiebutie » Sun, 04 May 2008 7:46 pm

You are quite a bore, first you denigrate Singaporeans, insulting them, more like and now you have your lovely little McD's anecdotes.

Possibly you are a legend. In your own hand.


(Oh, I studied in Switzerland and met quite a few British people who went to church) :) Nice people as well, not at all daft as you describe them.
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Postby QRM » Sun, 04 May 2008 10:03 pm

cutiebutie wrote:You are quite a bore, first you denigrate Singaporeans, insulting them, more like and now you have your lovely little McD's anecdotes.

Possibly you are a legend. In your own hand.


(Oh, I studied in Switzerland and met quite a few British people who went to church) :) Nice people as well, not at all daft as you describe them.


Who said she was Singaporean? Where is the insult? My view applies to any country/religion/subject where parrot style regurgitory teaching is used at the expense of lateral exploration and creative thinking.

I still stick with the spirit of open forum dialogue without resorting to throwing personal insults to other posters that don’t follow my train of thought.

Like I previously said people get too serious, so on a less serious note and still in keeping with the faith thread,

Imagine Singtel came knocking on your door and threaten if you don’t sign up with them you will suffer searing pain along the lines of nuts, razor blades and lemon juice? This would be totally unacceptable, yet our Jehovah witnesses friends can knock on my door and say that if I don’t follow their teaching, a whole world of hate will be heading my way, It would be so bad, the Singtel lemon combo, would be like a walk in the park, I mean what kind of way is that to recruit people and do we really want that sort of thinking to be left unchecked?

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Postby cutiebutie » Mon, 05 May 2008 1:01 pm

QRM wrote:
Who said she was Singaporean?
I didn't say that you referred to the lady as Singaporean - get your readig glasses on

Where is the insult?
Here:
Here in Singapore there’s a new church popping up on every corner. Is the income to fund all these buildings coming from emotionally challenged people, who hand over their hard earn cash in the hope of a better life by blindly believing biblical myths?

I realize that Singapore is only one or two generation away from third world thinking.
You can still see it almost daily in the paper that one person or another has paid a fortune to con men for black magic stones, or spiritual faith healers.


I still stick with the spirit of open forum dialogue without resorting to throwing personal insults to other posters that don’t follow my train of thought.
That's because other posters may not be as belligerent and insulting as you

Like I previously said people get too serious, so on a less serious note and still in keeping with the faith thread,

... our Jehovah witnesses friends can knock on my door and say that if I don’t follow their teaching, a whole world of hate will be heading my way

Don't open the door or tell them how you feel if you must, but labeling a whole country with derogatory comments is what you stoop to and then back off in shock indignation that someone has called you up on it.

If your writing style was worse then you could really be Superglide, the same generalisations and attacks followed by 'Oh, you know me. Whimper, whimper.

I'll rest this dscussion from my side now, have fun playing with yourself. (Verbally,of course)
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Postby ozchick » Mon, 05 May 2008 8:46 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:The main problem with discussions about God, I believe, is that we talk about 'him' as if he were external to us. If we understood 'God' in the same way we understand 'humanity', the view shifts immediately.

Humanity is much bigger than any individual human being, yet every single individual human being is an important component of humanity. Each of us carries within ourselves the essence of what humanity is, but no individual can claim to speak for humanity as a whole.

In the same way, there IS something bigger than each of us, which we tend to call 'God'. Yet there would be no God if individual beings did not exist to ponder what God is. Each of us carries the spark of divinity within, yet no individual can claim to speak for God or know his mind.

And if God were truly God, he would be vast enough to absorb the 'rightness' of each of our views. So SMS would indeed 'go to' or already be in heaven. Ozchick indeed has courage to believe, Turtle has equal courage to not believe, and Andy's (beautifully said) ten commandments would be wholeheartedly endorsed.

God does not need to be 'right' and does not need to judge anyone 'wrong'. It's we humans who have need of the concepts of right and wrong, good and bad, heaven and hell. We make sense of the world through the mental construct of dualities but this does not mean dualities really exist. Is there really such a thing as hot and cold, light and darkness? Not really, we just need one to understand the meaning of its opposite.

Humanity does not take sides, but embraces all who are human. There is no right and wrong about being male or female, young or old, black or white. Neither does God take sides and pronounce one religion (which includes the religion of unbelief or any other belief system) right and another wrong, but instead embraces all souls.

Still, just as human will fight human and thus humanity remains divided, so soul will fight soul and religion continues to divide us. This tension is necessary for evolution and growth, and part of the dynamic of life. It is not to be resented and questioned, but to be celebrated with awe and wonder.

Trust me on this. I must be right because I'm Catholic. :wink:


I've read this a few times since you wrote it W.I.M.H. and I think I've managed to sqeeze it into my tiny brain now. I reckon you've been here before ......................mm..and it's food for thought no doubt.....does it mean that I'm Godlik?! Cos I feel a spark of divinity...is it something like a hunger pain but happier ? Yeah this 'me myself and God' thing is a bit of alright ! :wink:
'Are you trying to tempt me because I come from the land of plenty?'

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 05 May 2008 11:10 pm

cheeky bugger! :P

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Postby QRM » Tue, 06 May 2008 11:37 am

[quote="cutiebutie"][quote="QRM"]

Here in Singapore there’s a new church popping up on every corner. Is the income to fund all these buildings coming from emotionally challenged people, who hand over their hard earn cash in the hope of a better life by blindly believing biblical myths?
[color=blue]
It’s a question. If someone replies “ The local bishop is a bit of dab hand at black jack and reinvested the winnings in the new church”
Last edited by QRM on Tue, 06 May 2008 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby ksl » Tue, 06 May 2008 3:17 pm

This little debate kind of reminds me, of politics and the yard stick.....when one say's he is 100% labour and for the workers, yet steals everything, and gives them nothing, reminds me of Tony Blair....and we have Maggie Thatcher that also promised everything, and again delivered nothing, however he son did alright out of her connections.

Politics and religion for me, is one of the same...although i saw the light long ago! Faith starts within oneself and not in other people, politics or religion, the faith of humanity is exactly, that.

Although I do see, the ones, that maybe blinded, by the light, and the aura of others, the trickery, and deceit, is all around us, not all can see it, because they want to believe in something, anything, will do, even if its a football team, and here we can draw parallels.

I was reading a fair deal on psychology, and how, most people are open to suggestive subliminal remarks, when suffering stress or in need of a break, from the social pressures, that surround us.

Many that are struggling in life, or are grieving for lost ones, become vulnerable, and discontented, looking for a thread of hope, of which many will take advantage of.

I have nothing really against religion, it serves several purposes in life, although harmony of the human race is not one of them.

Coming from the UK, and feeling everything is not equal, and was never meat to be, in a Country ruled by royalty and those endowed with lands has rewards, for their empiric rule, to serve the king or queen, is a difficult indoctrinate to shed, in the 21st century, primitive thinking is all around us, and therefore cannot be directed at one country alone.

Many are blind to trickery and deceit, it's like a magicians that show, there professionalism, some will really believe in magic, until convinced otherwise, the more primitive and uneducated, may never figure it out...after all IQ, is supposed to be, the measure of intelligence.

Of which I, have my doubts, because i may not have the experience or routine of solving, these puzzles in books doesn't make me less intelligent, in my book, all it does, is point out, that i have not gained routine in solving the issues at hand.

And this may also be adopted by faith, and humanity, many problems really do exist and the powers of B, have a tight hold, on the majority, which was recruited in the dark ages, with belief.

We do see, how churches around the world start to crumble, and how indoctrination is used in several faiths, with new up to date, marketing techniques to change, the outlook of the Church, and to build something powerful, like a pyramid, it caters, for the needs and wants of people, just like any other business model.

But I also see, a good social side, to meeting others, its kind of a brotherhood, secret society, cult, with one aim....although the followers, only ask questions, when it doesn't go there way of liking.

Like the yard stick and politics, its not easy to say, were the majority cross over from one to the other, but it is happening all the time, until the deceit is brought into the open, then followers, stop voting or attending.

It is without a doubt the human weakness, to follow Shepard, without any good reason to, in the hope of something better, not all are satisfied just like consumers....that are blinded, by marketing techniques, for bad quality products.

Business is not very much different, it takes a long while before meeting the partners you have faith in, but its all about providing the wants and needs of others, to make them satisfied....have faith, that you will get good value for money and not be cheated.

So I say except what is there, if ones needs are served and people are satisfied, it would be challenging of anyone, to start saying our product is better, believe in this, that, or the other, but not religion...

Its not wrong for disbelievers, to deliver primitive thoughts and base it all on 3rd world thinking, its basically not the issue, the UK have millions of Church followers, like other Countries, although it is my belief, it needs to be better regulated.

I had visited some new age Church in UK, with a Chinese friend who was a believer, and i was totally shocked, what i saw inside, it was nothing more than a theatrical show, of screaming and crying, and people falling around, in trance like states, my belief, is that the majority of actors, were involved in the cult like practice and brainwashing, which also disturbed the Chinese believer.

My doors are open to any religious faiths, because i accept all, with open hands, and use parts of each faith, that make me a better person, it satisfies me and fulfils my needs, because i am apart of gods creation, not the ones preaching updated storey books, to suit the 21st century.

My belief is that, living is hell so death must be heaven, and I often ask, why I see so many sufferings around the world, no matter how much faith one has, the natural elements will throw back 10 fold, for the damage humans make on the planet earth which is protected by forces beyond our Control.

One can call it the balacing act of the planets survival, against greed of humans...having faith in god, is not going to help, because god, wiped out the human race before, and it will happen again, without question, but not in our life time.

All the wars and misunderstandings are for what? power to lead others, not to embrace lives, kill the opposition in the name of god.

Evolution must be understood, and not humiliated, because one appears to be genetically more advanced, than the other, in terms of education, or cultural up bringing....survival instincts are more important to life, than those sitting in the arm chairs, just making comments.

When god strikes, he strikes with vengence, and for unknown reasons, to inflict suffering, and i'm sure he doesn't pull out straws, our destiny and time machine, maybe well mapped out at birth, who knows.

My point is, that we can all relate to death and violence and we all shed the same tears, it has nothing to do, with 3rd world thinking, in my opinion, it is probably more to do with superiority complexes and egos of human kind...of which, one day, they may be reminded of, when, it is their time to suffer, although the historians would be out of work, if we wasn't reminded of the power struggle and superiority of human kind.

I would much rather love my neighbour, no matter what colour, race or physical form, than indulge in competition of I'm better than them, a superior race is one of harmony, and will outlive, the biggot any day of the week.

Although sadly politics and religions are the focal point of rule, on a global scale, it is better to protect the sheep from the wolves in my opinion. Wolves? again we have many kinds on the planet!

What the debate has done for me, is to open my eyes, to the bredth of opinions, of which i was aware of, and reminds me, that my ego is better, toned down, than up, if I wish to maintain my faith within myself for humanity.
WIMH piece is very much my own opinion in many ways, and is also why i see, the external actions of humans like a movie, or a dream state...when i look at my cat, i say to myself CAT, who named you CAT, humans did of course.

Then I imagine being a CAT, and think well if i was to look at a flower, from a CATS point of view, it wouldn't be called anything, it would just be a reflection of light, like what we see around us.

I was showing the image of a ghost in a lift, on another thread, to my wife, who became so scared, because of her belief in ghosts. I also have a belief, that life after death may linger for a while, although the mind is so powerful, it can actually take control of the person it is in, and do unprecitable actions, the church may see it has possession of good or evil, look at stigmata, still being researched and many fakes found, however the mind is capable of powerful thoughts of communication, of which i have also experienced in a strange and confused way, of perception, which lasted several years, and just disappeared, has quickly has it arrived.

Was it brought on by emotion, stress, no one knows, but several close to me, have seen the proof, no matter, what wave length we travel on, energy is energy, and the opposite is death...and i can relate living to hell, in my life time, only because i looked and experienced hell many times around me, did my heart and soul suffer the shock of humanity.

I say shock of humanity because of living life outside of my protected shell of ignorance, to the suffering of others worse off than myself.

A storm that takes 15000 lives, in a day, tells me, that humans will lose, the battle, against the elements and the universe will repair itself, that is gods creation, that's what i have faith in, I am a part of the universe, and my destiny is mapped out, how i get there is my choice.
Last edited by ksl on Tue, 06 May 2008 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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