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Terrorist on the loose!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 01 Mar 2008 8:53 am

I wonder if Bernie Ecclestone & the IOC might be starting to rue their decisions to let Singapore host these huge events here. The F1 race with all that High Octane fuel? The IOC event with huge amounts of foreigners (course one good thing about that is that is will be spread out all over the island).

The much vaunted security system are only as good as the people manning them. If you pay security people peanuts, you only get monkeys who are easily diverted. The constant keeping the salaries depressed, while attractive to MNC's, only serves to destroy what little loyalty there might be. Why give 100% when the employer only pays 60% of the value of the job.

After letting this guy go 2x I am beginning to believe they are only capable of preplanning security but are not too capable of rapid reaction when needed. Not without at least trying to cover their tracks of a major screwup. The CTA mentality is strongly entrenched here with everybody seemingly afraid to admit culpability but always the first to ursurp credit even to the extend of stealing credit from others. Had the personnel at the security complex notified seniors in the beginning the lockdown should have been simultaneously at the borders AND within the immediate vicinity.

As this guy was as known terrorist with several escapes already know about both here and from authorities in Indonesia also know here by our authorities, you would have though the security personnel would have been in a high-alert mode ANYTIME the terrorist had visitors (especially family). What are the chances that terrorists have an emergency number only to use if absolutely necessary (a local mole?). Transport? Easy if a family member parked a vehicle at a nearby lot with a key accessable in specific known place. When the opportunity presented itself, run, use the transport, get out of the country before anyone knows what happened.

I think this country has listened to itself for so long it actually believes the crap they tell themselves. The big thing that Singapore always harped on is it's ability to act with speed. As far as little Big Head apologizing, I think, as Minister for Home Affairs, he should also take a page from Japan's politicians and resign. #-o

morning rant over......

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Postby ScoobyDoes » Sat, 01 Mar 2008 10:49 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I wonder if Bernie Ecclestone & the IOC might be starting to rue their decisions to let Singapore host these huge events here. The F1 race with all that High Octane fuel? The IOC event with huge amounts of foreigners (course one good thing about that is that is will be spread out all over the island).



Um, F1, IOC, FIFA etc. currently visit countries where attacks have happened already...... and in the case of London's Olympics, not that long ago.

Being realistic about it, Singapore like S.Africa for the Wolrd Cup, Beijing for the Olympics, Turkey or Bahrain for the F1 will have to bring in foreign assistance having never organised these particular events before and in this scale. This will have to include the security organisation. If you look at the UK police force now, they are hired by many countries in Europe now to at least train but also sometimes to actually handle football crowds given 30-yrs of handling and learning from hooliganism.

I understand your rant, both of them :wink: and i would agree with you about upcoming events if the organisers decided to go alone and do the work themselves without experienced experts. Don't think they will though, nobody has the balls to take responsibility for screwing it up.Hell, they even hired a foreigner to sell their F1 tickets in the first place.

Having said that, it could give them the excuse they need to say "We can do better than that!" [-o<

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Postby Forks » Sat, 01 Mar 2008 4:32 pm

What boggles my mind is that this guy walked out during the day, mid afternoon, keeping in mind this guy walks with a limp. I just want to know the details, poorly paid guards or what, how exactly did it happen?

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Postby durain » Sat, 01 Mar 2008 7:07 pm

Forks wrote:What boggles my mind is that this guy walked out during the day, mid afternoon, keeping in mind this guy walks with a limp. I just want to know the details, poorly paid guards or what, how exactly did it happen?


his JI training is better than NS training?

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Postby Plavt » Sat, 01 Mar 2008 7:28 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
The much vaunted security system are only as good as the people manning them. If you pay security people peanuts, you only get monkeys who are easily diverted. The constant keeping the salaries depressed, while attractive to MNC's, only serves to destroy what little loyalty there might be. Why give 100% when the employer only pays 60% of the value of the job.



=D>

This is the crux of the matter I see time and time again both in Europe and Asia. Poor wages don't attract quality staff and you can only logically expect both a half-hearted response from both employees and prospective employees since potential employees are often desperate for a job. :(

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Postby ksl » Sun, 02 Mar 2008 12:01 am

I was looking at the poster today, two photo's one with a bit of bum fluff on the top lip, although no description of what he was wearing...he will have contacts in Singapore, probably underworld...he would be silly to move around in the day time, the limp is to obvious.

Report says, his family was about to visit, and he asked to go to the toilet, and escaped from a window....I just don't believe it :? something is just not right, if you ask me.....OK prison guards are probably not the best people to keep an eye, on a high security terrorist prisoners, they would not be trained in techniques of the terrorist..

The guards on the outside, aparently Gurkhas, would not have contact with any prisoners at all, and most likely wouldn't even challenge him on the way out.....I suspect it's been planned over the phone, with his visiting family members involved, secret codes are quite often used, in the criminal environment, I doubt that phone calls have been monitored, because once, he's locked up....Prison guards would treat him just like any other high security prisoner...in stead of a higher risk terrorist, with nothing to lose but his freedon and life.

I'm afraid to say, the only way to catch this guy is with a specially trained force, who will think, just like he does, 4 days head start, he can still be caught, with the right people on his tail...

But the hunters, would have too have the skills for the job.

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Postby Forks » Sun, 02 Mar 2008 7:39 pm

Ok, I can dig that it was probably planned (although I would have thought they would monitor his phone calls and communications) and that there probably was outside help but I then wonder about how secure the place he was in was, did it have a fence, passes at the gate, was he wearing a prisoners uniform, etc etc?

As for the JI training being better than the NS training, well if this is anything to go by maybe it is, even just in motivation perhaps, but having worked in security my mind wants to know the nuts and bolts, the hows and whys as security revolves around procedure, if he was such a dangerous terrorist then what was in place to keep him in custody? Whats procedures did they have, what routines, what contingencies, backups etc, or even just bars on the bloody toilet window, for a nation with so many bars on so many bloody windows here was this the only window in Singapore without bars on, what a lucky break!

Obviously there were no bars on the toilet window.

I dont know all the facts but i smell monkies, all of this sounds like a cockup more than a well planned escape, although Im sure there was a plan, but security of that nature is often about exploitation of mistakes/holes rather than good plans and black magic.

I can only assume that there had to be a relative degree of laxity and perhapses overconfidence on the part of the prison security and yes Plavat from what I have seen of security staff in Singapore (bouncers, condo security, bank guards, even the NS cops) it is a case of low paid individuals in low paying jobs and most of the time with little or no training as they behave and orientate like the untrained, unskilled and definitely uninterested but then as the saying goes "pay peanuts get monkies"

As for specially trained forces, it might have been better if the specially trained forces were doing their job before he got out and after 4 days Im banking hes gone, out of the country, swum to Indonesia.

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Postby ozchick » Sun, 02 Mar 2008 7:48 pm

durain wrote:
Forks wrote:What boggles my mind is that this guy walked out during the day, mid afternoon, keeping in mind this guy walks with a limp. I just want to know the details, poorly paid guards or what, how exactly did it happen?


his JI training is better than NS training?


Forget the limp. Apparently his normal unhurried walk shows no limp.
Yeah I'm also a little skeptical about this while thing. This IS Singapore after all. And if this story IS legit- then some poor bugger's head is already rolling !
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Postby Superglide » Sun, 02 Mar 2008 10:07 pm

So, anyone of you feels less safe now, in Singapore?
If only we could pull out our brain and use only our eyes.
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Postby ProvenPracticalFlexible » Sun, 02 Mar 2008 11:52 pm

Superglide wrote:So, anyone of you feels less safe now, in Singapore?


About the same level that I felt safer in the whole World after Bush jr announced his preventive war on terror.

Really horrified about this guy, what has this guy so far done? I still see it much more likely that i'll be hit by a car, then a terrorist no matter where I am.

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Postby ksl » Mon, 03 Mar 2008 12:05 am

Superglide wrote:So, anyone of you feels less safe now, in Singapore?

Singapore is much safer, than most Countries, because of the well mixed race of the population, other countries are much more better targets, because distribution of race is not taken into account...

That is to say, most terrorists' would be situated in the same areas, and segregation is much more prominent in other countries...making a terrorist threat more likely, than in Singapore. Although at worst the suicide bomber wouldn't really care who, they blew up...they are just like any other mentally disturbed suicidal individual.

Northern Ireland for example is segregated Catholics and Protestants, so in the early days, all the bombings occured in the Protestant areas, until the para militaries also aquired funding from bank robberies, for arms and explosives, then the tit for tat, campagne, begins.

Almost all terror grps have criminal backgrounds, to fund their idealistic beliefs.

However suicide bombers are not 10 a penny, and expert terrorists would never dream, of killing themselves, they pick on the weak and mentally disturbed, to carry out their tasks...when these poor unfortunates have been used for the cause....then a new batch must be recruited and conditioned.
You see people that are frustrated, and hate, their governments and the western governments, are mostly targetted by propaganda, from both sides, the terrorist, with use, these politics, to their advantage, to recruit.

Unstable individuals, with pain and suffering in their hearts, of political misdemeanor, are voting politics for a better life, the lies of politics and religions strike deep, and frustrations set in....the weakness of the mind is spotted and natured, by the terrorist, in a very subtle way, probably using hasheesh to take subconcious control, he will gently, indoctrinate his victims, until he believes, they are ready to be used, for the cause.

Hasheesh is the assassins right hand man, so don't believe for one minute, that suicide people are normal, they are not, and this you may have noticed in Iraq, because the bombers, were using mentally disturbed patients from the hospitals.. It's only a matter of time, that these suicide bombers, stop bombing.

Iran threatens US with armies of potential suicide bombers, this is quite true, in the fact, mentally ill patients, and weak suseptable people are prime targets for brainwashing....So their are really no sane martyrs, sane people do not blow themselves up, and especially sane terrorists.

I have been amazed at the increase of airport security, although in my opinion, it is again the same old story of inconvenience V's quality of security.

Airport security is in my opinion still very weak, and over exaggerated, for a purpose of which i mentioned above, only the weak and mentally unstable, will take on the role of blowing up planes, and the increase in airport activity is meant to capture, these people, not the expert terrorist, I mean would any sane person blow themselves up...no, people on hasheesh or other influencial relaxation drugs yes....

Although i do believe the terrorist to be an expert in smuggling of which the airports, are not geared for, yes they use x-ray machines and probably dogs, in the baggage area....I often wonder how many people are asked to remove their toupee, or even if it is ever spotted on a male or even a female, we have all heard of drugs being swallowed in condoms, what about plastic explosive?

So yes I believe explosives can still be smuggled, in significant quantities, with detinators transported and reassembled at the destination in my opinion.

Quality of training and pay is essential for a serious effort in security operations, but most of all, ones own mentality and experience of seeing others blown to bits, is unfortunately more effective in undertanding the message of terror.. I believe anyone caught up in an explosion, will understand for the rest of their lives, that one cannot just ognore, what is happening in the world, even though it is a very tiny tiny few, that get hit. it happens and only being sharp to the problem will avoid it.

I have seen people walk away from baggage in the airport, and have pulled them up for it, if i must stay with my baggage, i expect others to do the same, otherwise, we are just throwing our cares to the wind. And the terrorist will take advantage of people around them.

I don't expect any terrorist to deliberately blow up, their brothers, on a day to day basis, otherwise their support would rapidly dwindle and cover is blown...

But not only that, it depends on the size of operations too, international coverage is the name of the game, the properganda race for attention. So outsiders are more likely to target Singapore and again it would have to be someone mentally unstable, simple or weak , it would never be the leaders.

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Postby ksl » Mon, 03 Mar 2008 12:38 am

ProvenPracticalFlexible wrote:
Superglide wrote:So, anyone of you feels less safe now, in Singapore?


About the same level that I felt safer in the whole World after Bush jr announced his preventive war on terror.

Really horrified about this guy, what has this guy so far done? I still see it much more likely that i'll be hit by a car, then a terrorist no matter where I am.


Yes you are more likely to be hit by a car! and that can be often in Singapore, if you are not careful. So the word is careful, you look right, left, and right again, before crossing...if you don't, the risk of getting hit is more likely.

So it is all about awareness, and not being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So my point is awareness for the unexpected, I have seen many people here walk straight into the road, without looking...and i have seen many cars drive straight out into the main road, from both sides, without giving way, to on coming traffic, what keeps me safe is awareness, and not, the fact, that a number of people are killed on the road each year.

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Postby cutiebutie » Mon, 03 Mar 2008 9:37 am

Superglide wrote:So, anyone of you feels less safe now, in Singapore?


Safer than anywhere else.
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Postby expatUK » Tue, 06 May 2008 6:36 pm

Whoa..lotsa of interesting views but the one that cracked me up was he swimming back to Bintan.

Its a bit alarming that he could just jumped out and escape from the toilet window. The best part has to be the camera that wasnt working from the "toilet" angle...how can you have a NON working CCTV?? in a high detention centre?

He's still out there or perhaps like some of the locals say "far far away".
With all these said, the most unbearable has to be the Tuas and Causeway Checkpoint. Took me 2hrs to clear into Malaysia.

So much said,let's pray he doesnt get to his counterpart and do what he had planned earlier before he got caught in Bintan.

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Postby dcglim » Wed, 07 May 2008 4:57 am

Got a joke here about the escaped terrorist, Mat Selamat.


What did the Indonesians say when the terrorist escaped from Singapore's prison?

"Selamat Datang!"




Get it?

Selamat Datang in Malay means "welcome".
But is also can mean, "Selamat has arrived (in Indonesia)"


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