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Hows this for a solution to NS dodging.

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Hows this for a solution to NS dodging.

Postby Forks » Mon, 25 Feb 2008 3:03 pm

For all those who seek to dodge NS and have passports from another country hows this for a crazy idea.

Legally change your name and get a new passport.

what are the odds that the Singapore customs only have your name on file and so when you come to "visit" with your new passport they will never know its you.

Is this too obvious or is it just me?

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Postby road.not.taken » Mon, 25 Feb 2008 3:08 pm

Here's a better idea: just fulfill your obligation and do the damn national service. Fork -- would you really like your son's first decision as an adult to change his name and runaway from responsibility?

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Postby primitivo » Mon, 25 Feb 2008 3:30 pm

NO.

I think if you intend to study/work/live/retire in Singapore, you should do your national service.

For those who change their minds later, Singapore should adopt a pay-as-you-go system through national service tax.

National service is 2 years, a person's working career is about 40 years. 2/40 = 5%. Singapore government should charge 5%-10% on pre-tax income for life for those who skips NS.

The money can be then used to provide college tuition fund for NS men.

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Postby road.not.taken » Mon, 25 Feb 2008 3:33 pm

How exactly do you calculate the experience he gains? The friendships? The maturity? The knowledge of doing the right thing? The connections he makes by serving with his peer group?


You got your benefit from Singapore on the front end of the deal, rather than the back end -- just as SMS pointed out. Time to pay the piper.

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Re: Hows this for a solution to NS dodging.

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 25 Feb 2008 4:16 pm

Forks wrote:For all those who seek to dodge NS and have passports from another country hows this for a crazy idea.

Legally change your name and get a new passport.

what are the odds that the Singapore customs only have your name on file and so when you come to "visit" with your new passport they will never know its you.

Is this too obvious or is it just me?


Let's look at it from a slightly different perspective. All passports have at least your place of birth noted on it. All databases in the Singapore government are connected. Mindef, ICA, & the national birth records are all computerized. How easy is it to scan a passport if it is an Asian male showing a birthplace of Singapore (name change or not) with a DOB (which will definitely narrow the search way, way down in a country with only 3 million people total. Then just compare it with a query of how many of those males born on that day are already registered or have done their NS.

Gotcha easy-peasy!

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Postby durain » Mon, 25 Feb 2008 7:08 pm

and on the arrival form, you need to fill in previous name or something. or if you had any previous passport, etc.

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Postby Plavt » Mon, 25 Feb 2008 7:26 pm

durain wrote:and on the arrival form, you need to fill in previous name or something. or if you had any previous passport, etc.


'Have you entered Singapore under any other name?' on the landing card.

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Postby cutiebutie » Tue, 26 Feb 2008 9:38 am

Primitivo, why are you so hell-bent on turning your son into someone who tries to go around problems instead of confronting them?

You set a bad example.
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Postby primitivo » Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:21 am

I'm setting a perfect example by confronting the problem, but not following the most obvious path.

There are normally lots of solutions to a problem.

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Postby Forks » Tue, 26 Feb 2008 12:56 pm

Ok so it wasnt the best idea. Personally I have no option against my son (he is only 5 at this point anyway)doing national service, although Im not PR at the moment but if I was I would not be against it, I was just reading all the "why must I do national service but still want to come to Singapore " posts and it sorta crossed my mind.

And as for the comparing of computer records SMS is that true or are you just guessing thats what happens? The parameters are pretty open, just because a male of the same date comes in does it mean that he gets flagged by the computer and in some cases not all of them were born in Singapore just resided here for a period.

Im all for obligations, but just coz its "law" dont make it right, more than one SGPer has expressed displeasure with military service on grounds other than lazyness and just coz Singapore has a somewhat "paranoid" threat perception dont make it right either, defend your borders by all means but who exactly is all this NS protecting?

For a guy I can see why 2 of your prime years being spent in green for no fault/decision of your own might be somewhat unpleasant and besides Singapore has a decent and reasonably sized regular force anyway, a lot of NS men end up as cops, firemen, doing mindless desk jobs etc etc.

In one light 2 years sounds like Corvee to me.

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Postby cutiebutie » Tue, 26 Feb 2008 1:00 pm

primitivo wrote:I'm setting a perfect example by confronting the problem, but not following the most obvious path.

There are normally lots of solutions to a problem.


By confronting you mean trying to avoid it? Interesting definition.


It is called responsibility, civic or otherwise. :wink:
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 26 Feb 2008 1:14 pm

Whether or not it's true I cannot say, but given the depth of the government's involvement with IT technology here, and the fact that they DO USE facial recognition software already to catch quite a number of Asians who are returning to Singapore using different passports. This is a fact as they have caught quite a few maids who have be deported and returned using new passports. As I said, the databases are already linked. (in the old days, the birth records registration numbers were different that the NRIC numbers, but they have been using NRIC numbers for many years now on the Birth Registrations. All records in Singapore are NRIC Identified. Your tax registration number is also you NRIC number as well.

Easy-peasy if you think about it. Immigration officer has to quickly scan all income passengers passports. While scanning, notices that a male asian has a birthplace listed as Singapore. She has a database query function as all do. All she has to do is have a preset parameter that says find all males born in Singapore on this birth date who are not registered for NS. Only has to check the National Birth records which will turn up what? Maybe a dozen births totally of which probably 6 will be male. Oops! only 5 have registered for NS. Flag for Immigration Officer to inspect closer. Gotcha. How hard is it? Doesn't even have to have the same name, just the D.O.B. You can change names but you cannot change your DOB. With a legal passport that is....

If you think about the links of the Interpol databases and local governments you can understand what I am talking about even easier.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 26 Feb 2008 1:22 pm

Why does Singapore need a military? Why does any country need a military? Without a military you will no longer be a country but a subdivision/state/vassal of another country. If every male thought the same way regarding the fact that singapore already as a sizeable military it wouldn't be sizeable very long would it. As far as them being put in the civil defense, police, or military, the NS in singapore falls under the Ministry of Home Affairs which incompasses all of them. NS males are put into all of these units depending on what they need and where they need them. The only reason the forces are reasonably sized is because of NS. Don't forget, Singapore is a very small country so they DO need to be able to count on every male to do their part.

As far as 21 months of service is concerned, I feel all males should do NS. I feel it helps them grow up a bit. I am waiting for my son to do his (he's already 18 but is on school deferment). Of course, the big difference is his father is a military veteran who spent 18 months in a combat zone so my outlook on life is not quite the same as the average peacenik. :)

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Postby primitivo » Tue, 26 Feb 2008 1:32 pm

con·front /kənˈfrʌnt/ –verb (used with object)

1. to face in hostility or defiance; oppose: The feuding factions confronted one another.

2. to present for acknowledgment, contradiction, etc.; set face to face: They confronted him with evidence of his crime.

3. to stand or come in front of; stand or meet facing: The two long-separated brothers confronted each other speechlessly.

4. to be in one's way: the numerous obstacles that still confronted him.

5. to bring together for examination or comparison.

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Postby cutiebutie » Tue, 26 Feb 2008 2:35 pm

Oh, how clever, can I play, too?

Obfuscate \Ob*fus"cate\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Obfuscated; p.
pr. & vb. n. Obfuscating.]
To darken; to obscure; to becloud; hence, to confuse; to
bewilder.

His head, like a smokejack, the funnel unswept, and the
ideas whirling round and round about in it, all
obfuscated and darkened over with fuliginous matter.
--Sterne.

Clouds of passion which might obfuscate the intellects
of meaner females. --Sir. W. Scott.
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