Strange Clause in Tenancy Agreement

Discuss about where to live, renting a property, tenancy issues, property trend and property investment in Singapore.
Post Reply
User avatar
sierra2469alpha
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1381
Joined: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:50 am
Location: Singapore (Finally!)

Strange Clause in Tenancy Agreement

Post by sierra2469alpha » Tue, 19 Feb 2008 7:22 pm

Hello friends - has anyone seen a clause such as this in a tenancy agreement between a landlord and a COMPANY?

"DECLARATION

I, [xxx employee name xxx] (Australian Passport No. _________________ ) the said employee mentioned in the Tenancy Agreement entered between you and THE COMPANY RENTING THE property PTE. LTD. on _________ February 2008 hereby declare that I
shall be bound by the terms, conditions, stipulations and covenants of this Tenancy Agreement and I shall procure all my family members and invitees on or in the demised premises to be so bound thereby and I shall indemnify you from and against all loss and damage resulting from any breach by me or any one of them of the said terms, conditions, stipulations and covenants."

Now, the company has signed the TA and this clause has just been added, placing me at the liability end of a potentially very sharp stick, as my reading of this would indicate this is EVERYTHING in the contract. Note, the contract is for 2 years.

Any advice appreciated!

Cindy :???:

Singapore Property Search

 

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 8:52 pm
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Re: Strange Clause in Tenancy Agreement

Post by ksl » Wed, 20 Feb 2008 4:50 am

sierra2469alpha wrote:Hello friends - has anyone seen a clause such as this in a tenancy agreement between a landlord and a COMPANY?

"DECLARATION

I, [xxx employee name xxx] (Australian Passport No. _________________ ) the said employee mentioned in the Tenancy Agreement entered between you and THE COMPANY RENTING THE property PTE. LTD. on _________ February 2008 hereby declare that I
shall be bound by the terms, conditions, stipulations and covenants of this Tenancy Agreement and I shall procure all my family members and invitees on or in the demised premises to be so bound thereby and I shall indemnify you from and against all loss and damage resulting from any breach by me or any one of them of the said terms, conditions, stipulations and covenants."

Now, the company has signed the TA and this clause has just been added, placing me at the liability end of a potentially very sharp stick, as my reading of this would indicate this is EVERYTHING in the contract. Note, the contract is for 2 years.

Any advice appreciated!

Cindy :???:
Personally I wouldn't worry too much, it would must certainly apply, anyway once the deposit is paid...You do in fact have sole responsibility as the tenant.

For anyone, that visits the property and causes damage. It would be advisable to take some kind of liability insurance to cover for the property and contents in case guests cause any damage or break a leg in your rented property and sue you.

I guess the Company are just passing the risks onto you, not themselves, so a liability insurance for persons and property is the safest for peace of mind.

Accidents can happen to the best of us! I don't know if this is normal or not, to be honest, but what people do tend to not think about, is their liabilities, when renting properties. Like burglary, loss, and accidents of guests and others visiting the property.

This is all a tenants responsibility if it ends in court, even if it wasn't in the contract, commonsense would prevail, in the courtroom, and they would say, you are the tenant at the time. I believe!

The only problem now, is that you are now aware of your responsibilities!

Although to add it after it's been signed is naughty and illegal, I still wouldn't hold out much hope...if it went to the court, because like i say commonsense then takes over...You are the tenant!

User avatar
sierra2469alpha
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1381
Joined: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:50 am
Location: Singapore (Finally!)

Re: Strange Clause in Tenancy Agreement

Post by sierra2469alpha » Wed, 20 Feb 2008 7:35 am

ksl wrote:
I guess the Company are just passing the risks onto you, not themselves, so a liability insurance for persons and property is the safest for peace of mind.


Although to add it after it's been signed is naughty and illegal, I still wouldn't hold out much hope...if it went to the court, because like i say commonsense then takes over...You are the tenant!
Hi KSL and thanks. It's not the Company that put the clause in, it is the landlord.

While we totally understand about tenant's responsibilities (which you described very well), our concern is that we've been told on countless occasions that a lease with a Company is preferred, as is a long lease. If that is indeed the case, then why try to slip this clause into the contract?

Could anyone else whose Company has been the lessee advise if you also had this type of clause in your TA/contract?

Thanks KSL and all others in advance!

User avatar
Forks
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 12:41 am
Location: in the draw
Contact:

Post by Forks » Wed, 20 Feb 2008 8:32 am

SGPers love legalese, special if they dont actually know what it means and has as many big sounding legal words as possible (at least the lawyers do), Rental agreements sound like 16th century declarations of war or some obscure speech in Latin but the odds are it wont be your company you will have to worry about but the landlord and there are bound to be many threads about regarding that so I wont go into it here.

But as KSL said its not likely to be a problem, translated it just looks like you be responsible for any damages you or your family make not your company, probably inserted because in the past landlords have had a habit of trying to rip off companies by claiming the tenant has done massive damage in order to not give back the bond etc etc, if you ever meet a landlord expect them to have a fins sticking out of their back and a the kind of smile car salesmen have.

Renting property and signing legal agreements in Singapore is a bit like the X-files "trust no one"

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 8:52 pm
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Post by ksl » Wed, 20 Feb 2008 1:27 pm

I would take this as an indication, that one may have a problem to get the deposit back, however and it is much easier to do from the tenant, than the company, because the tenant, normally leaves the Country within a few days of moving out!

This problem can be solved however but i am not allowed to talk openly on here about it! You can however PM your email!

User avatar
sierra2469alpha
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1381
Joined: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:50 am
Location: Singapore (Finally!)

Landlord removed the declaration

Post by sierra2469alpha » Mon, 25 Feb 2008 2:29 pm

Hi everyone - after standing our ground, the landlord firstly agreed to exclude making us personally liable for the rent. After pointing out that the clause was in fact non-standard and that we still would not sign it, they finally agreed to remove it.

Thanks all for your replies, and hope this helps someone out in the future.

Cheers!

User avatar
Forks
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 12:41 am
Location: in the draw
Contact:

Post by Forks » Mon, 25 Feb 2008 3:07 pm

well done! :D

Odds are they were trying to sneak it in and hoping you wouldnt notice, it pays to do your homework here, and the only way to go in such situations is to be as stubborn as them.

User avatar
sierra2469alpha
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1381
Joined: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:50 am
Location: Singapore (Finally!)

Post by sierra2469alpha » Mon, 25 Feb 2008 3:21 pm

Forks wrote:well done! :D

Odds are they were trying to sneak it in and hoping you wouldnt notice, it pays to do your homework here, and the only way to go in such situations is to be as stubborn as them.
Hiya Forks - indeed it does. The funny thing is that he is protected under clause 4H of the standard Tenancy Agreement/Contract. When you combine that with the wording from the above declaration, all he was doing was contradicting 4H and trying to put the onus on two individuals, rather than a sizeable company. Go figure that one!

Now, if only we could get our bank sorted...it never ends!!! :roll:

See you 'round.

User avatar
Forks
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 12:41 am
Location: in the draw
Contact:

Post by Forks » Tue, 26 Feb 2008 12:42 pm

Yeah thats the crazy thing, the law covers them anyway but coz its in leagalese they dont understand it any more than we do so they often panic and add bits in they dont need to, As always be firm, polite and know yer stuff back to front, this applies to agents also who will definately try to screw you if they can thinking your a gullible foreigner, do your own homework from the net on places to rent etc then let the agent know what you want to see, dont let them bring it all to you as they will have deals worked well ouyt in advance and you will suffer no end, knowing the rent as advertised stops this and keeps them working for their $$$, which by the way is paid by the landlord if the rent per month is over 2.5K or there abouts, its the law.

User avatar
sierra2469alpha
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1381
Joined: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:50 am
Location: Singapore (Finally!)

Post by sierra2469alpha » Wed, 27 Feb 2008 9:17 am

To all those people who are looking for rental properties - Fork's advice is sound and I highly recommend you follow it. We acted this way, and with the small hiccup explained in this post, it worked a dream.

hubertgoh
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 6:39 pm

Re : Harrassment by Owner and his Agent

Post by hubertgoh » Mon, 10 Mar 2008 6:48 pm

I would like to poll any tenant here whether you have come across the following situation. I have been harrassed by the apartment owner and agent due to viewing appointments by "prospective clients" who have come into my apartment on a weekly basis, spending about an hour with 2-3 clients at one time. This is as per tenancy agreement clause that empowers the owner to inspect the rented premise "at all reasonable times". This to me has become very inconvenient, not to mention I am forced to take in strangers at my apartment. I am planning to take this case to small court tribunal, and I would like to know if anyone here cares to share their experience in dealing with this (and successful or not). Sharing of success story in blocking this nightmare is very much welcome!

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 8:52 pm
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Re: Re : Harrassment by Owner and his Agent

Post by ksl » Tue, 11 Mar 2008 4:16 pm

hubertgoh wrote:I would like to poll any tenant here whether you have come across the following situation. I have been harrassed by the apartment owner and agent due to viewing appointments by "prospective clients" who have come into my apartment on a weekly basis, spending about an hour with 2-3 clients at one time. This is as per tenancy agreement clause that empowers the owner to inspect the rented premise "at all reasonable times". This to me has become very inconvenient, not to mention I am forced to take in strangers at my apartment. I am planning to take this case to small court tribunal, and I would like to know if anyone here cares to share their experience in dealing with this (and successful or not). Sharing of success story in blocking this nightmare is very much welcome!
This is as per tenancy agreement clause that empowers the owner to inspect the rented premise "at all reasonable times".
This is a no no, for the landlord, it will not stand up in the small claims court! Because he his soliciting!

Every landlord has the right to inspect his property, yes....just him, not not prospective rental clients, while the property is still rented to you. You have a good case i would think.

Although i am no expert, commonsense is the rule of most courts. and the clause gives him the right to enter the property for inspection, the norm being at 6 monthly intervals or even every year. But not to conduct business at your expense.

This clause should be part of the inventory check in, check out procedure, with an interval for inspection at reasonable times, which is normally 6 month...to see that you are looking after the inventory

User avatar
QRM
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1831
Joined: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 5:23 pm
Location: Nassim hill

Post by QRM » Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:56 pm

There is also a clause in our contract saying 2 months before the end of the tenancy the landlord, with tenants permission, is allow to show the property to prospective future tenants, which is a pain, we managed to avoid most of the request by saying we are overseas.

Beware, once we had a watch stolen during a viewing. Hard to prove who it was.

User avatar
jpatokal
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3014
Joined: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 9:38 pm
Location: Terra Australis Incognita

Post by jpatokal » Sat, 06 Jun 2009 1:28 pm

QRM wrote:There is also a clause in our contract saying 2 months before the end of the tenancy the landlord, with tenants permission, is allow to show the property to prospective future tenants, which is a pain, we managed to avoid most of the request by saying we are overseas.
This is also fairly normal. Just make sure it says with your permission, not whenever the landlord wants to...
Vaguely heretical thoughts on travel technology at Gyrovague

User avatar
QRM
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1831
Joined: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 5:23 pm
Location: Nassim hill

Post by QRM » Sun, 07 Jun 2009 9:47 pm

Forks wrote:SGPers love legalese, special if they dont actually know what it means and has as many big sounding legal words as possible (at least the lawyers do), Rental agreements sound like 16th century declarations of war
Not just the documents. I was in touch via email to a local lawyer, I could not figure out what he was on about. Anyone would think I was writing to Chaucer himself. I sent him a message saying I am a bit retarded and have problems with Shakespearean prose, and asked if he could please try and reply without using the following words, THUS, THEREFORE, HITHER TO, WHEREFORE, PERUSAL, HEREINAFTER, HERETO, AFORESAID, THEREOF, HEREBY. I also asked him to put everything in one line bullet point format.

His next and all the following emails was very clear and concise.

There must be plenty of lawyers on the forum why not prepare a standard Singapore TA that would pass the Plain English Crystal Mark. I am sure there will be a huge demand for it.

Oh another daft point lawyers insisting I sign with a fountain pen :shock: surprise they didn t ask me to communicate via the wireless

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Property Talk, Housing & Rental”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests