National Service

[aagun123]

Hi everybody,

I've got a complicated situation here. I've a expired Singapore passport. But i'm not born in Singapore but in Europe. Only my father is Singaporean. My parents a divorced and i'm living with my mom. But she's not a singaporean.
Currently i'm 17 so I don't know if a can refuse the national service. And apparently my family in Singapore had given me a exit permit. Which means that i've to go back right? But what are the consequence if i don't?
Can I ever step a foot in Singapore if I choose for another passport? The last time I went there was when i was 15.

[jpatokal]

When exactly did your Singapore passport expire? (What age were you?) When you went back, did you use a Sg passport or a European one?

[aagun123]

I am 17 years old and my passport expired back in 2006. I went to Singapore with my Singapore passport. It's the only one i have...

[aagun123]

Does anyone know what the consequences are??? And what's going to happen to my family and bank account in Singapore??

[Splatted]

Side-topic question- Do duel nationals have to serve two lots of NS, eg from their European country as well as Sg?

I would think that serving in one exempts (disqualifies) you from serving in another country's army, but I'm only guessing.

Anyone know for sure?

If the answer is yes, then the OP can complete his NS in Europe in his country of residence.

[sundaymorningstaple]

I would suggest you contact the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and ICA and explain your situation to them as that is a bit beyond us here. Both links can be found in my signature link under Government Site in the first column.

[ScoobyDoes]

Side-topic question- Do duel nationals have to serve two lots of NS, eg from their European country as well as Sg?

I would think that serving in one exempts (disqualifies) you from serving in another country's army, but I'm only guessing.

Anyone know for sure?

If the answer is yes, then the OP can complete his NS in Europe in his country of residence.

Singapore doesn't really care what happens overseas, on top of which i don't believe it recognises dual citizenship where one is Singaporean.

[ksl]

I would be inclined to believe the worst in your situation, condition your mind, to doing National Service, It's not all that bad, and much better than a prison term!

Depends what you really want to do, If I was thinking that one day I would return to Singapore...I would most definately get the National service out of the way, and use it as an educational opportunity and a maturing process, there is nothing better, than a little self discipline drummed into you, even if you don't like to play soldiers.

You may have a choice of administrative work, or an occupation you can use later. One thing for sure, it would advance your knowledge and wisdom, with very little risk of war, you may even feel proud about yourself!

They may also say no we don't want you! What a bonus! But be prepared for the worst.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Side-topic question- Do duel nationals have to serve two lots of NS, eg from their European country as well as Sg?

I would think that serving in one exempts (disqualifies) you from serving in another country's army, but I'm only guessing.

Anyone know for sure?

If the answer is yes, then the OP can complete his NS in Europe in his country of residence.

It would depend on the country but the short answer is Yes and No.

It would be possible in the US/Singapore situation. In my son's case he has to do NS here (although it looks like he will get a education deferment for a while) and he also had to register with the US Selective Service system. While the odds of getting a call up for the US are slim (although not impossible) as the draft has been mothballed since 1975 it is still there and you still have to register. So technically in the US anyway one could have to do two whacks so it would pay to find out about the 2nd country if you are planning on doing NS in Singapore. Normally, it's not a problem unless you are an officer in the Singapore Military then it's another kettle of fish. Serving in one country does NOT exempt you from the other country normally.

[aagun123]

I would be inclined to believe the worst in your situation, condition your mind, to doing National Service, It's not all that bad, and much better than a prison term!

Depends what you really want to do, If I was thinking that one day I would return to Singapore...I would most definately get the National service out of the way, and use it as an educational opportunity and a maturing process, there is nothing better, than a little self discipline drummed into you, even if you don't like to play soldiers.

You may have a choice of administrative work, or an occupation you can use later. One thing for sure, it would advance your knowledge and wisdom, with very little risk of war, you may even feel proud about yourself!

They may also say no we don't want you! What a bonus! But be prepared for the worst.

So even if i am not born in Singapore and only because of my father I have to join the army?
It doesn't make much sense though...

[sundaymorningstaple]

The problem is that the government here is paranoid to the Nth degree. As it only has a finite number of males who are eligible for the defense of the country should it be needed, it does everything it possibly can to ensure that the body count is there. The fact that in a 100% call-up there will only be about 350K military personnel and 90% of those are unfit, overweight, and sedentary. Therefore it makes the fulfilling of NS a National Priority. One also has to see it from an Asian perspective as well (pragmatists all). If they cannot earn good money or getting educations or making more than the girls of the same ages, then it's worth avoiding if at all possibly. That's why there are so few regulars in the Military here.

If all the red-blooded Singaporean Males went overseas when they were 16 in order to avoid serving then where would the country be? Part of Malaysia again probably. While I agree that the government is a bit too inflexible, one has to understand why. This is especially so considering most Singaporean have the mememem syndrome so do not want kids even when they do get married. This causes a fertility that is the 3rd lowest in the world at 1.3. This, coupled with the greying population (due to not enough births), means less and less able-bodies males left to fill the rank in NS. It cannot allow too many exceptions because then it's the "well he did it" syndrome which they don't want to have happening.

Unfair? Yes

[aagun123]

The problem is that the government here is paranoid to the Nth degree. As it only has a finite number of males who are eligible for the defense of the country should it be needed, it does everything it possibly can to ensure that the body count is there. The fact that in a 100% call-up there will only be about 350K military personnel and 90% of those are unfit, overweight, and sedentary. Therefore it makes the fulfilling of NS a National Priority. One also has to see it from an Asian perspective as well (pragmatists all). If they cannot earn good money or getting educations or making more than the girls of the same ages, then it's worth avoiding if at all possibly. That's why there are so few regulars in the Military here.

If all the red-blooded Singaporean Males went overseas when they were 16 in order to avoid serving then where would the country be? Part of Malaysia again probably. While I agree that the government is a bit too inflexible, one has to understand why. This is especially so considering most Singaporean have the mememem syndrome so do not want kids even when they do get married. This causes a fertility that is the 3rd lowest in the world at 1.3. This, coupled with the greying population (due to not enough births), means less and less able-bodies males left to fill the rank in NS. It cannot allow too many exceptions because then it's the "well he did it" syndrome which they don't want to have happening.

Unfair? Yes

Just a curious question, If I renounce my Singapore passport before my exit permit (which is possible according to the European laws because i am born in Europe) ends which means i already have another passport will it effect my family who are living in Singapore??

[primitivo]

The problem is that the Singapore government would not allow you to renonce citizenship until you've served.

You have more ties with Singapore than my boy who left Singapore before he was even 6. Now Singapore government wants him to serve too.

I think the Singapore government should be more flexible in handling people who left at young age. They should just do something like if you do not serve, you can't return to Singapore for job/investment/property. Or if you want to work in Singapore without serving, you have to pay extra 20% in income tax.

[aagun123]

After reading a few articles I found that if you didn't participated socio-economic benefits and emigrated abroad at a young age, you can renounce your passport without any problems. So I didn't participated any socio economic benefits and I am NOT born in Singapore ( which means i was born and grew up in Holland). And the Dutch gouverment fully supports my decision.
Can I renounce my singaporean passport ?
My mom had tried once but the Singapore goverment says that the child has to decide for himself if he reaches the age of 21. They didn't say anything about NS. And afterall the Dutch gouverment has supported me to go to school by paying the school books(at least €300 a year). I don't think the singapore goverment will do that too...

[primitivo]

If you have an exit permit, it should mean that the Singapore government wants to do national service. They will contact you when you're approaching 17.5 years of age.

Did you post a bond of max(75000, annual salary/2) to get the exit permit? How long did you hold Singapore passport?