Pre-Moving in Cleaning Services

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Pre-Moving in Cleaning Services

Post by bch » Mon, 11 Feb 2008 3:28 pm

There are so many agencies out there advertising their services, that I have no idea which one to use. We need cleaning services for our new flat prior to moving in. Any personal recommendations?

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Re: Pre-Moving in Cleaning Services

Post by ksl » Mon, 11 Feb 2008 6:46 pm

bch wrote:There are so many agencies out there advertising their services, that I have no idea which one to use. We need cleaning services for our new flat prior to moving in. Any personal recommendations?
I suggest you don't ask questions like this in this forum, you will get the members in trouble..............ask the admin!

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Post by bch » Mon, 11 Feb 2008 8:33 pm

very helpful indeed ;)

Sorry, was not aware of rules regarding this. Although, have seen other forums where personal recommendations have been given. Double standards perhaps?

Could someone PM me with a recommendation?

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Post by ksl » Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:25 pm

bch wrote:very helpful indeed ;)

Sorry, was not aware of rules regarding this. Although, have seen other forums where personal recommendations have been given. Double standards perhaps?

Could someone PM me with a recommendation?
Actually the website administrator gave me a warning that i would be banned, for giving information away regarding properties....I was accused of solicitation of business...because i PM'd an agents email to a forum member...what should i say, I was in the wrong!

But for god sake, these questions come every single day, it is a public forum...my only worry now, is why should an OP report me, for sending him an agents email, by PM...sounds very strange to me....unless it's called entrapment...or peaking at PM's is another alternative.

Considering there have been two complaints about me, and I have only PM's 2 people, It makes you wonder, who is actually telling the truth here.

Solicitation was a strong word to use, and i'm peeved, considering the first PM was about my private business plan for the future and had nothing to do, with this website.

Although it was meant to improve services, and it will still go ahead, anyway in the near future!

So you see, we have to abide by the rules...

I would suggest Admin opens a thread for people like you, so that only they can reply....why they do everything under cover of the forum, i will never know....although I see their point of view, it needs to be more transparent....its far to easy for members to get roped into all this, then insulted and I really don't see members being any threat at all, by giving good advice....all they need do is improve the service to catch people with the questions, and that would be an Admin area, so that mods can pull all requests for help, and post them to the admin thread.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:46 pm

ksl,

You did it again. :P

Go back a reread the original post. The OP is talking about Cleaning Services Agencies I believe, not real estate agencies. Course I may be wrong.

I can't recommend any but I have a list of 'em in my links in my signature.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by ksl » Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:08 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:ksl,

You did it again. :P

Go back a reread the original post. The OP is talking about Cleaning Services Agencies I believe, not real estate agencies. Course I may be wrong.

I can't recommend any but I have a list of 'em in my links in my signature.
Yes maybe, but the email from Admin, says anything to do with the property business, so I take it, it also means the cleaning too.

It's the agents, responsibility to hand over a clean apartment...So i don't wish to be accused of poaching business again, especially when i haven't even started any competitive business yet.

I do however accept responsibility for sending an agents email by PM, it was a one off, because I believe the OP asked for an agent to help him, and no one had replied. :oops:

Caught me by the short and curlies...the other case was to do with my business plan for the future, to improve services, within the property business, which is still on track..... I may just sell the business plan to someone else, on condition that they qualify for entrepass, nothing illegal about creating employment, even if it is in the property business. Competition is a good thing! :wink: Although I will abide by the rules. :)

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Re: Pre-Moving in Cleaning Services

Post by ksl » Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:11 am

bch wrote:There are so many agencies out there advertising their services, that I have no idea which one to use. We need cleaning services for our new flat prior to moving in. Any personal recommendations?
Sorry bch, a misunderstanding, it is normally the agent who is responsible for handing over a clean apartment...Although I guess you have purchased a new apartment...still the best thing would be to check out the links on SMS's website, my apologies! It maybe better to request help from the administrator or one of their agents, who normally arrange for apartments to be cleaned, before handover.

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Post by bch » Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:58 am

KSL, no worries. Thanks for clarifying.

sundaymorningstaple - thanks for the link, although I'm still back in square one because I have no idea which one of the 5-8 agencies listed on the web to use! Someone will probably tell me to just pick one and hope for the best...

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Re: Pre-Moving in Cleaning Services

Post by jpatokal » Tue, 12 Feb 2008 2:02 pm

ksl wrote:I suggest you don't ask questions like this in this forum, you will get the members in trouble..............ask the admin!
Now that was just stupid. Genuine personal recommendations for services are very welcome on the forum.
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Re: Pre-Moving in Cleaning Services

Post by ksl » Tue, 12 Feb 2008 2:56 pm

jpatokal wrote:
ksl wrote:I suggest you don't ask questions like this in this forum, you will get the members in trouble..............ask the admin!
Now that was just stupid. Genuine personal recommendations for services are very welcome on the forum.
Stupid was it? I thought it was, quite effective, at least all members get to be more cautious, by my silly mistake, when they reply to anyone, either by posting or PM!!! :lol:

It is property related, so how do you explain, how you can recommend an agent, that knows all the good & bad cleaners may I ask! You see, the posting guidelines are totally unclear in this area....

Admitted that this is a property website. Admitted it is not a good idea to post recommended agents, to where advice is available.

Admitted that one should support the forum! and Admitted, that services to all these questions relating to property should be provided by the website administrators, so no other members face a roasting!

If there are complaints, especially by OP's then I ask why should an OP complain, when a private message has been sent, with an agents name. Why is the OP asking the question if he knows members are not allowed to furnish email addresses to agents.

Is it malice, or is it that Private Messaging are not so private after all? You can bet your life i am peeved, especially when i am sending sensitive information through a PM.

Why doesn't the forum have their own agents listed here in a stickey, why is it that members have to suffer humilation of being accused of soliciting business. when they are not!

They are advising where to get a good agent, if the question is asked, and the reply was discreet by PM

My intentions are strictly to make a point, that one must be more careful, not to put anything in a reply if it is relative to agents work, by posting or PM, that can give the admin cause for concern....

I requested to see two complaints by the OP's of which i replied to, and I was ignored, what am i supposed to say.....I can assume however that,

That the OP request was one of entrapment or my PM was intercepted, either way, there is clearly an ethical issue at stake. and it is not my ethical behaviour because i admitted to sending an agents email.

But it's history, lesson is leant, the warnig is for everyone else! :wink: I'm sure they get the message to be more careful now! :roll:

All the fuss over such a silly remark, If their agents are listed in easy view, we can at least post their links!

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Re: Pre-Moving in Cleaning Services

Post by jpatokal » Wed, 13 Feb 2008 4:26 pm

ksl wrote:It is property related, so how do you explain, how you can recommend an agent, that knows all the good & bad cleaners may I ask! You see, the posting guidelines are totally unclear in this area....
The official posting guidelines are right here. But you're right, the unwritten "don't speak of real estate agencies" rule wasn't in there, so I just added it:
* Personal recommendations are welcome.

If somebody else asks about a product or service that you have personal experience (good or bad) with, you can give a capsule review, including name, links or other contact information. Exception: As this website is run by a real estate agency, discussion of other real estate agencies is generally not appropriate. It's a free forum because they're paying the bills for it, so please respect the owners' rice bowl.
However, I don't know where on earth you got the idea that cleaning agencies can't be discussed here -- there have been plenty of threads about the topic in the past, and it's not something the SingaporeExpats empire does in the first place.

As for the whole PM thing, your account is so muddled that I don't quite understand what happened, but it sounds like your PM was forwarded onward by another user, which is hardly the site's fault. As far as I know us admins don't even have any way of reading people's inboxes, and I'm quite sure Pal and joop have better things to do even if they could....
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Post by ksl » Thu, 14 Feb 2008 2:33 am

It's a free forum because they're paying the bills for it, so please respect the owners' rice bowl.
Being a businessman, I would have to look at my strengths & weaknesses, and consider the results of my actions...should I bite off the hand that feeds me?

If I had built a forum, with the intentions of it being public, It would be unpractical to hold members, responsible for the rice bowl, and infact, you are telling all your competitors, your weakness, is right here in the website.

I know the mind set here in Singapore pretty damn well, you only have to go onto ebay, or any other auction site in Singapore, were you will see, goods being sold, much more exspensive, than you can purchase them in the retail shops...Yet the rest of the world, is selling at least two thirds cheaper in the auctions!

This rice bowl, attitude certainly won't propel your business, into the new age of adaptation, and hospitality...To give everyone the idea that your soul business survival is based around the rice bowl, and forum, is pretty darn thin.

Competition is excellent, something you should look forward to seeing, discussed, rather than kept quite about, otherwise, you are just stabbing yourself in the back, and the competitor, will pick up on that weakness, I most definately would.

Constructive criticism in a forum is the way to enhance a service, not by shutting them up...what isn't said here, will be said else where, and there isn't anything more effective than word of mouth.

What amazes me of Singapore, is that a Country can advance in stature in such a short time, yet the Singaporean populous is having difficulty, with it's rice bowl...and it's true, that's why I was recruited to help rescue a 60 year old company, gradually down on it's knees, with 8 people left out of a 100, 30 years ago.

Why, because of mindset! Didn't want to change, to a new way of thinking. I can only say.....ooops, you had been warned.

That's why talent is recruited, to make the changes, that locals can't do, it's called internationalisation and also why psychological profiling is a serious business, within the next 5 years, a great deal is going to happen, and many more expatriates, will arrive.

In my book, I would embrace the members and give them free range, within legal limits, I would never dream of putting so many barriers on a discussion, that concerned competitors, unless it was slanderous, of nature.

I personally feel all the mods are doing a super job, and that i have never felt the need to drift from this website, until I was accused of solicitation, and that's really the position one should be looking at.

Was it solicitation? Members of a public forum, discussing property and helping eachother out!

JP is still trying to fathom it out why I posted what I did....because he sees no sense to the post, or relation to it!

Because he knows this website as nothing to do, with the cleaning side of the properties. So he presumes, with his crystal ball, because he knows everyone knows! Wrong!

Members know nothing, and why should they know the background of the property business here, the forum is a front, to attract customers and business, why not state the facts, how they are, so that members know, and may well show some loyalty, either way, every member here is a potential client and should be treated with respect.

Even if they do get on your tits! Just my 2 cents, if you want to improve your service, do it, if you don't someone will come along, and provide a better one, and when the members dwindle away, then you can look back on this thread!

Manage members, but don't start accusing them of stealing the rice bowl, that's not a smart move at all, especially for competitors to get their hands on.

I can tell you of a few instances of competitors, in the computer business, that, almost destroyed each other, through pure malice for eachother..placing orders by telephone, then refusing delivery...even having several tons of sand dumped outside the shop, and the shop billed for it. nasty business.

You see with techology things move forward, and speed up all the time, one needs vision, if you are to stay in the race, plant the seeds, in the members, and care for their every whim, as possible....because, they are the ones, that will be recommending, the services....or agents....to others, that come and go, don't bite off the hand that feed you.

Transparency of an agents list, will without doubt be beneficial for the website and also a good cleaning services.

Look for advertising why not! Just my rant for today, feel much better now!

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:39 am

Very long post.

I'm long winded as well. Try this......

I posted similar just a week or so ago after a similar situation in another thread.

Can I come to your used car lot and advertise my friends used car business from your business facilities? After all, we should have a free exchange of ideas and even though it's my business I am supposed to allow all and sundry to advertise my competitors at my place of business. If I maintain a game room on my used car lot for potential customers to amuse themselves while browsing my wares, should I let my customers use the facilities as their own to direct my customers to another used car lot?

Of course not.

Only a fool would do so.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by jpatokal » Thu, 14 Feb 2008 1:55 pm

ksl wrote:If I had built a forum, with the intentions of it being public, It would be unpractical to hold members, responsible for the rice bowl, and infact, you are telling all your competitors, your weakness, is right here in the website.
Uhh... in case you haven't noticed, all other expat boards in Singapore ("the competitors") are considerably more anal about not allowing links to, well, anything.

Also, there's Singapore defamation laws to consider. If I post a review saying "Agency X sucks" here, I can see see Agency X suing not just me but the board, and any judge is not going to take very kindly to a business slagging (or allowing the slagging) of a competitor.
Constructive criticism in a forum is the way to enhance a service, not by shutting them up...what isn't said here, will be said else where, and there isn't anything more effective than word of mouth.
I, personally, agree with you on this. However, the management has indicated that they do not, so I respect that, because it's their forum and their business.
JP is still trying to fathom it out why I posted what I did....because he sees no sense to the post, or relation to it!
That's right, I literally don't understand what happened. Feel free to PM and explain.
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Post by ksl » Thu, 14 Feb 2008 3:16 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Very long post.

I'm long winded as well. Try this......

I posted similar just a week or so ago after a similar situation in another thread.

Can I come to your used car lot and advertise my friends used car business from your business facilities? After all, we should have a free exchange of ideas and even though it's my business I am supposed to allow all and sundry to advertise my competitors at my place of business. If I maintain a game room on my used car lot for potential customers to amuse themselves while browsing my wares, should I let my customers use the facilities as their own to direct my customers to another used car lot?

Of course not.

Only a fool would do so.
Actually SMS what you actually state above, is quite true, in the olden days, today, competitors, are working much closer together....occassionally selling their cars, on eachothers patch, simply because of area, supply and demand.

Even though they are competitors, it make's more sense to know and respect your enemy, I say enemy, because in terms of business, you want, to be on the winning side, not the loosing.

By working together, you have a better volume of cars, so if a competitor, as clients, waiting for a specific model, the other competitor may help, providing you with a service, to keep turning over. It keeps the ball rolling.

Of course you wouldn't wish to invite, all competitors to your door step, if they don't respect your rules and behave on your patch, and this is where, you are quite right...But it is always better to know, where your competitors are, at arms length.

I do have friends in the business, and it is a business of sarcasm, back stabbing although they need eachothers knowledge, not trade secrets, to turn volume the quickest way as possible, cash turnover is the name of the game, especially in economic down turns, cars need to be moved asp, so networking with competitors and doing favours, is the way to stay in the game....it's all about having respect, and making $, asp!

Although their are very few you can trust, it doesn't take long, before word gets around, in the business, what one is like...knowing who is on your side, is always the best. :wink:

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