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Thaiclan
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Post by Thaiclan » Wed, 06 Feb 2008 5:06 pm

sprite wrote:I guess what I find confusing is that you seem to be blaming the parents. There is a big difference between blame and noting that the parents have the ultimate responsibility (which seems so redundant that it doesn't have a place in this discussion). Tell me, the daughter you are the primary caretaker for, do you ever leave her with anyone else? Do you entrust her medical care to a doctor? Does she go to school?
Never leave any of your kids in sole care of a doctor. At school they are still being watched to some extent, but would you really leave the room if a Doctor asked you to when he/she was dealing with your kids?? No way!

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Post by sprite » Wed, 06 Feb 2008 5:22 pm

Not my point really :roll: Even if you were in the room, the Doctor could inject them with a lethal dose of a medication, (like Dennis Quaid's twins). As SMS said, its all about choices, we can't spend 24 hours a day with our children, we have to entrust them to someone's care eventually. We have a choice of who and when and for how long, but we eventually have to let them out of our sight or we're not doing our jobs as parents. We may still be responsible, but I can't find blame with these parents simply because they worked and had a camera. Maybe it was a gift from a suspicious mother-in-law? Who knows...

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Post by Plavt » Wed, 06 Feb 2008 5:30 pm

sprite wrote: Tell me, the daughter you are the primary caretaker for, do you ever leave her with anyone else? Do you entrust her medical care to a doctor? Does she go to school?
Not for the first time sprite you are devoid of all logic; there is a big difference between an unqualified (which was Ksl's point) maid and the two professions you mention.

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Post by sprite » Wed, 06 Feb 2008 5:40 pm

I disagree, child abuse doesn't recognize a degree or a paycheck. You think she's more likely to abuse a child because she is poor and uneducated? No way...

familyof5
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Post by familyof5 » Wed, 06 Feb 2008 5:51 pm

what is devoid of logic is to imagine a child is completely immune to abuse when in the care of a "professional"....

there are plenty of paedophiles who went to university methinks.

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Post by Plavt » Wed, 06 Feb 2008 5:53 pm

sprite wrote:I disagree, child abuse doesn't recognize a degree or a paycheck. You think she's more likely to abuse a child because she is poor and uneducated? No way...
So you would never take your child to the doctor, dentist, allow him/her to go to school or be admitted to hospital. What a cruel person you must be.

In all seriousness we are not talking about paychecks here and you should realize certain people are trained to look after children.

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Post by familyof5 » Wed, 06 Feb 2008 5:55 pm

ksl wrote:Judgemental is not part of it, it's to do with prefering to share moments, with my child today, of which I missed with my other two children, due to divorce....not about how much I need, to pay the bills, or to accumilate wealth.
sorry, can't work out how to do these quote thingys.....

but ksl, by assuming the reasons people need to leave their children in the care of others is to simply accumulate wealth, your above quote is completely judgemental. Not to mention self righteous. You also mentioned earlier something about parents that abuse their kids. And, er... yeah...? Whats your point there? Who said that wasnt abuse?


Plavt wrote:So you would never take your child to the doctor, dentist, allow him/her to go to school or be admitted to hospital. What a cruel person you must be.
as for the above quote Plavt....it so completely misses the point of Sprite's posts that it takes my breath away.... :lol:

and sms, i didnt say people didnt have a choice. i said they didnt have the choices others have. sure, everyone has a choice, but circumstances are so vastly different.

sorry, i really must learn how to refer to posters quotes in a more readable fashion. :oops:

Have straightened out your quotes for you (click on this message where it says edit and see how it should look) - sms

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Post by Plavt » Wed, 06 Feb 2008 9:48 pm

Apologies to sprite I somehow missed something you said (second I've done that to today :oops: think I need a long holiday). :mrgreen:

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Post by ksl » Wed, 06 Feb 2008 10:09 pm

but ksl, by assuming the reasons people need to leave their children in the care of others is to simply accumulate wealth, your above quote is completely judgemental. Not to mention self righteous. You also mentioned earlier something about parents that abuse their kids. And, er... yeah...? Whats your point there? Who said that wasnt abuse?
I don't assume anything and that's my point! You people are doing all the speculating not me....

And when i say its the parents responsibility, to ensure their child is safe, one can only minimise the risks, even if the person is a professional with credibility, there is still risk....most maids are not qualified to look after children, so why would you expect them to do a good job of it, beats me, especially a child of that age too.

Anyway, I find the discussion rather pointless, it's hardly constructive, to resolve any problems of this nature, and looks more like a witch hunt.
sprite wrote:
I disagree, child abuse doesn't recognize a degree or a paycheck. You think she's more likely to abuse a child because she is poor and uneducated? No way...
I never said it did....although if one parent was home, then maybe the episode, would never have happend.

Why is it, that many employers of maids, take it for ganted, that they have to do everything in the house? The fault also lies with the employers, unless she does have a professional qualification for child care, which i doubt very much.

I would never have left my baby, with a stranger or my maid, unless i had 100% faith in her!

These people did not have that, hence the camera, although they was still willing to risk the babies health.

Nothing more to be said here, from me anyway!

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Post by sprite » Wed, 06 Feb 2008 10:26 pm

Plavt wrote:
sprite wrote:I disagree, child abuse doesn't recognize a degree or a paycheck. You think she's more likely to abuse a child because she is poor and uneducated? No way...
So you would never take your child to the doctor, dentist, allow him/her to go to school or be admitted to hospital. What a cruel person you must be.

In all seriousness we are not talking about paychecks here and you should realize certain people are trained to look after children.
No Plavt -- I'm saying that ksl's reasoning is tantamount to saying this -- that he is essentially blaming the parents because they choose to leave the child with a maid, instead of making the altruistic sacrifice he did to stay at home. I was pointing out that he must, in the normal course of parenting, rely on a third party to help with the responsible caregiving of his child(ren) and at some point leave his child(ren) with someone and therefore, put trust in someone (but also take risk). You really do make wild inferences. :roll:

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Post by ksl » Wed, 06 Feb 2008 10:29 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
familyof5 wrote::roll:
only a bloke would have that opinion. i'm sure many people would prefer not to work, and look after their children. unfortunately they don't have the choices you do.
Sure they have choices. It's just that they have different value system so the choices they ultimately make are not the same. Usually, the differentiating factor is the comfort level of ones living conditions and material wants. But at the end of the day it's still choices isn't it? Also, sounds a bit genderist to me. Not siding with either camp on this one but everybody and every family has choices: from getting married to getting pregnant to a DINK household to a housefull of kids or birth control. It's all about choices.
Yes I agree, and I also see other local families, with maids, that have the same values, were the husband is looking after the kids, because he wants to spend that time, with them, while they are growing, financially it's a choice of doing without many things...sacrificing one income to be with the kids...it is most definitely a choice, that one makes, and not only here in Singapore. But in many European Countries too.

The comfort zone, and the image and career is at stake in most cases isn't it! It's a very complexed and unfortunate situation, when nobody knows, the background circumstances...and many maids are probably not checked for mental illnesses or depression or other factors, that may contribute to these problems one can have with a maid.....

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Post by sprite » Wed, 06 Feb 2008 10:37 pm

Plavt wrote:Apologies to sprite I somehow missed something you said (second I've done that to today :oops: think I need a long holiday). :mrgreen:
Thank you Plavt, you are Gentlemen and a Scholar... :)

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Post by Splatted » Thu, 07 Feb 2008 3:46 am

sprite wrote:We may still be responsible, but I can't find blame with these parents simply because they worked and had a camera. Maybe it was a gift from a suspicious mother-in-law? Who knows...
The camera may have been installed for a completely different reason such as money gone missing, food tasting "not quite right", or even to ensure the maid isn't bringing home her boyfriend for a romp while noone is home, instead of doing the housecleaning.

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Post by pollyminaz » Fri, 08 Feb 2008 1:31 pm

Splatted wrote:
sprite wrote:The camera may have been installed for a completely different reason such as money gone missing, food tasting "not quite right", or even to ensure the maid isn't bringing home her boyfriend for a romp while noone is home, instead of doing the housecleaning.
the cameras were installed for the sole purpose of observing the maid. this is according to the article in the papers.

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Post by pollyminaz » Fri, 08 Feb 2008 1:42 pm

Splatted wrote:
sprite wrote:The camera may have been installed for a completely different reason such as money gone missing, food tasting "not quite right", or even to ensure the maid isn't bringing home her boyfriend for a romp while noone is home, instead of doing the housecleaning.
the article in the newspaper said that the mother wanted to observe her maid.

even so, you can only blame the mother for trusting her child to a foreigner. you can't blame her for preferring not to look after her child. Its a personal choice after all.

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