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Singapore justice

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ozchick
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Singapore justice

Postby ozchick » Mon, 21 Jan 2008 9:15 pm

OK. Friend has been robbed of cash. A suspect confesses and is locked up as he awaits trial and possible conviction of 6 years plus jail. Friend gets money back and wants to give it to the family of convicted man because he stole out of desperation in his efforts to support her in Sg to be 'lenient' during sentencing of thie offender ?

BTW I personally don't give a rat's arse about this offender. But my friend's 'concern' and feeling of grief over this just got me wondering...
'Are you trying to tempt me because I come from the land of plenty?'

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Postby ozchick » Mon, 21 Jan 2008 9:17 pm

Sorry- should've previewed. Suspect stole on order to support his wife and kids.
'Are you trying to tempt me because I come from the land of plenty?'

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Postby ozchick » Mon, 21 Jan 2008 9:23 pm

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: Singapore justice

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Damn it all- this should read bettr !
OK. Friend has been robbed of cash. A suspect confesses and is locked up as he awaits trial and possible conviction of 6 years plus jail. Friend gets money back and wants to give it to the family of convicted man because he stole out of desperation in his efforts to support his wife and kids. Does my friend have any'sway' in asking the court to be 'lenient' during sentencing of the offender ?

BTW I personally don't give a rat's arse about this offender. But my friend's 'concern' and feeling of grief over this just got me wondering...
'Are you trying to tempt me because I come from the land of plenty?'

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Postby Barczar » Mon, 21 Jan 2008 9:44 pm

I'd suggest reading Les Miserable (or if you get the chance to see the play) Jean Val Jean had a similar dillema, stole a loaf of bread to survive etc...

It's a tough call, I'm considered a lienient person, but only when there is some form of punishment or tough love or whatever you want to call it if I've been wronged.

Who do you believe in a situation like this, if I was facing 6 years of prison, you're damn straight I'd come up with some sort of sob story, we hear them all the time. Every beggar on the street has a story like that, everyone we know successful or not has a story of how things could be better or how they screwed up along the way, the fish that got away, the goal they should have scored to win the game, Hell contestants on American Idol try to get through auditions, based on their sob stories of hardship etc and nothing even remotely based on talent? People just need to shed a tear to pull on our forgiveness heart strings, and personally it makes me sick.

Facts of the case as you put it is the guy robbed your friend, robbed implies confronting the person and forcibly taking money as opposed to stealing, which the victim does not need to be present. The suspect confesses to this and is locked up as a result of his CRIME! As he is awaiting trial, the sob stories come in about how he wasn't hugged enough as a child or had a rough patch or had a drug problem or had a family to support or was dealt a bad hand in life, whatever the story is, he gives his sob story. This does NOT erase the fact that he committed a CRIME.

Your friends concern of feeling of grief is bred into us as a society, whether it come from religious means (blessed are the meek and forgive our sins and the sins of our neighbours etc). Or it comes from TV or other media, which shows so much grief in the world that we are looking for good in people, we are looking for hope. Or it comes from the judicial system here, which far beit from me to criticise, but it may be construed as being too harsh or unbalanced etc. Whatever your friends reasons is, it's their reason.

I think they call it Stolkholm syndrome, when the victim understands and supports the captives motives, intention and actions. Seems to me like the same thing here, where the sob story struck a chord and your friend has reacted in the same manner.

But hell, that's just my humble opinion and let's face it...what do I know...think I've rambled on long enough!?
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Postby Plavt » Mon, 21 Jan 2008 9:52 pm

Barczar,
There is good deal of truth in what you say and the sob stories I have heard a few times even here in Britain where as you know we have a benefit system. However, what is significant is the perpetrator has confessed his/her guilt. Although one may argue he/she should not have committed the crime let's be honest how many of us have done something we shouldn't?

Ozchick,
I don't think your friend will have much bearing on the court's decision, in the words of one Chief Justice: 'mercy and compassion are words we have thrown out of the window.' :?

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Postby Barczar » Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:00 pm

Plavt, agree 100%! I can't believe I'm actually alive with the stuff I used to do and get away with, but personally I never hurt anyone, but myself and I was plain and simple damn lucky, nothing more nothing less.

I'll match your Chief Justice quote and raise you two Dog the Bounty Hunters quotes:

"You do the crime, Dog will make you do the time!"
"God have mercy on your, because Dog will NOT!"

Couldn't help myself there and please oh hell pleeeeease forgive me for quoting Dog the F'n Bounty Hunter...I couldn't help myself! :lol:
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Postby Wind In My Hair » Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:36 pm

I doubt the courts will consider any plea from the victim. Sentences here aren't just in proportion to the crime, but also have a significant deterrent effect and this is important now in view of rising robbery rates so the courts are likely to be stricter rather than more lenient.

Sometimes I wonder... most of us suffer some guilt when we think that we may be the cause of another's suffering, and perhaps our desire to minimise the suffering is to assuage that internal guilt rather than out of true compassion for the other person?

I've come across many cases where people defaulted on loans, borrowed money etc while living in nice homes, driving big cars, and watching plasma TVs. Some of my acquaintances borrowed money from me and later I found out that they bought new clothes etc instead of returning me my money first. I wasn't angry as I'm prepared to lose any money I lend, but have since realised that lending money may do the borrower more harm than good.

Nowadays if someone asks to borrow money, I offer to spend an hour going through his finances with him if he wishes, to see how he can find a long-term solution to over-spending. I think that is more compassionate, and anyway one hour of my time may be worth more than the amount in question so I'm giving him more than he asked for in the first place!

My point is, make sure compassion is well-founded and focused on what's good for the other person, rather than hidden guilt focused on making ourselves feel better. I think your friend should just trust the judge to do the right thing, since it's out of her hands anyway.

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Postby Superglide » Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:18 pm

Small quiz.

1. Singapore
2. Leniency
3. Justice

Which of the above is non-related to the other 2?
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Postby Plavt » Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:33 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:. Sentences here aren't just in proportion to the crime, but also have a significant deterrent effect and this is important now in view of rising robbery rates


Ahem, if robbery rates are rising how are the sentences having a deterrent effect? I think the truth is the penalties will not stop the crime and the bigger the population gets whether by an influx of foreigners or a sudden increase in Singapore's birthrate will mean an increase in offences committed.

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Re: Singapore justice

Postby road.not.taken » Tue, 22 Jan 2008 5:42 am

ozchick wrote:OK. Friend has been robbed of cash. A suspect confesses and is locked up as he awaits trial and possible conviction of 6 years plus jail. Friend gets money back and wants to give it to the family of convicted man because he stole out of desperation in his efforts to support her in Sg to be 'lenient' during sentencing of thie offender ?

BTW I personally don't give a rat's arse about this offender. But my friend's 'concern' and feeling of grief over this just got me wondering...


Sounds to me like your friend is suffering from a local version of 'Stockholm Syndrome'. What has me perplexed is how your friend got their money back? If you steal money out of desperation, wouldn't you spend it as soon as you stole it? Maybe there are six degrees of desperation? :roll: :)

If she really wants to help the family, she can do it in other ways besides giving them cash.

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Postby familyof5 » Tue, 22 Jan 2008 7:23 am

blimey you lot are a cold hearted bunch!

then again i always was a soft touch.

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Postby durain » Tue, 22 Jan 2008 7:44 am

zero tolerance!

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Re: Singapore justice

Postby ozchick » Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:46 am

road.not.taken wrote:
What has me perplexed is how your friend got their money back? If you steal money out of desperation, wouldn't you spend it as soon as you stole it?


Well yeah she hasn't got the money back yet, but as I understand it, her workplace's insurance policy will cover it since she's made a police report. So I'm of the understanding that she will get it back. I spoke to her today and she's STILL very concerned about the man and his family. I shouldn't have used the word robbed. The money was stolen from her bag while she was out of the room.
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Postby Addadude » Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:15 pm

I'm sure I've read of quite a few cases (in that quality newspaper, The New Paper) where the victim has asked the court to be lenient on the offender. In some cases it may have helped. There's certainly no harm in your friend trying to do the same. She's certainly more charitable than I would be!

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Postby luxiana » Tue, 22 Jan 2008 3:31 pm

Superglide wrote:Small quiz.

1. Singapore
2. Leniency
3. Justice

Which of the above is non-related to the other 2?


none since I've been attacked by 3 guys, left for dead and that the police doesn't seem to be very interested in my case.... even though they have 3 ICs of one of the guys who attacked me.
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