Renounce Singapore Citizenship

Amyloidosis · Post by **Amyloidosis** » Tue, 07 Dec 2010 4:46 pm

The Seow Wei Sin case was very interesting, but my understanding is that it only applies to those who have "completed" their offence before 2005/6 (ie before the change in law they became 40 yrs old and thereby ceased to continue to offend). Those like myself who are under 40 in 2005/6 would have at least part of the offence committed under the new harsher sentencing regime.

Amyloidosis · Post by **Amyloidosis** » Tue, 07 Dec 2010 4:54 pm

This forum has shown how many people there are out their whether dual citizens or PR or otherwise considering the very serious and importance issue of whether to be part of Singapore and whether to undertake NS. I would echo what others have said in praising the value of this forum and in particular certain contributors who really put the S into good Samaritan. There are very deep and important issues to consider thoroughly and the guidance and information provided on this forum is a great help.

Koalabear · Post by **Koalabear** » Thu, 09 Dec 2010 3:50 am

"my parents went back to SG unexpectedly and suddenly for personal reasons in the late 1990s"

You are caught between a rock and a hard place. The immigration officer probably thinks "if you have the guts to pull a fast one on the gahmen, make sure you don't ever need to come back."

I am very surprised that your parents actually went back to Singapore after going though all the shit MINDEF throws at you. Good luck anyway and I hope you can find a solution to this.

sg_retro · Post by **sg_retro** » Thu, 09 Dec 2010 4:15 am

Hi all,

I hope someone is able to give me some advise on the following.

It's best to start off with a bit of history. I'm born as a Singaporean in 1981 and have been living in Europe since 1989. Between this period I've only spent 6 years in Singapore as I spent 2 years of my early childhood outside Singapore. In 1992 I was granted European citizenship, while still holding a Singaporean one. Before I turned 21 I was granted an Exit Permit and Approval for NS Deferment by the Singapore Gov. At age 21 (in 2002) I was allowed to renounce my Singapore citizenship which I did.

Since 1989 I've returned to Singapore several times for social visit and never did I have any issues. Everything went well, so it seems. In 2006 I applied for a Student Exchange Programme with NUS and for this I need to have a Student Visa/Pass. 'Mysteriously' my application was turned down by ICA without any given reason. With no criminal record and with a good educational background, I can see no reason for rejection either than for the fact that I'm an ex-Singaporean.

The problem I'm facing now is as follows. I'm now working as a consultant for a big American firm in Europe. This week I was told by my boss that he wants to send me to Singapore for training and perhaps in combination with a short-term assignment. He plans to send me to Singapore for 3 to 4 months starting in January 2010. This would be great for my career but I'm afraid that ICA (or for that matter Ministry of Manpower) won't grant the me visa/permit I need in order to perform my task in Singapore. Given the fact that I was refused a Student Pass in 2006, how great is that chance that I will be granted a visa/permit this time? Apparently in my previous encounter with ICA, I was NOT treated as any other foreigners. How will they treat me now?

Please help. This is driving me nuts.

Mad Scientist · Post by **Mad Scientist** » Thu, 09 Dec 2010 4:22 am

@sg retro

Hate to tell you this but you are REALLY Out OF LUCK on this one. You can shed all kinds of tears but it will be a no go. They had you now.Read this

Implications of Singapore Citizenship Renunciation

If you are thinking about renouncing Singapore citizenship, it is important to think of the implications of this decision. Once your declaration for renunciation is registered:

1. You will cease to be a citizen of Singapore.
2. Citizen benefits such as subsidies in health-care, education, taxation, employment and other privileges will cease to be applicable.
3. There is no provision for reinstatement.
4. There is also no assurance that you can continue to work or reside in Singapore as a foreigner on any type of employment permit or as a Permanent Resident.

sg_retro · Post by **sg_retro** » Thu, 09 Dec 2010 5:31 am

Thanks MS for your prompt reply.

THis confirms my fear that getting the right permit will be difficult if not possible. I know of someone (vaguely) in the same situation who did manage to get a work permit in Singapore. Going to ask him how he pulled that off.

Mad Scientist · Post by **Mad Scientist** » Thu, 09 Dec 2010 5:46 am

sg_retro wrote:Thanks MS for your prompt reply.

THis confirms my fear that getting the right permit will be difficult if not possible. I know of someone (vaguely) in the same situation who did manage to get a work permit in Singapore. Going to ask him how he pulled that off.

REad this

Maybe it can help you .. the last part of the link

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic ... highlight=

sg_retro · Post by **sg_retro** » Thu, 09 Dec 2010 6:07 pm

@Amyloidosis: can you PM your e-mail address? I can't reply to your message because the reply and PM function have been disabled.

sg_retro · Post by **sg_retro** » Thu, 09 Dec 2010 6:12 pm

@MS, once again thank you for your very prompt response. I've seen your posts and you are really great.

Going back to my case. Is it correct that for a short-term assignment/training (<3 months) an Employment Pass is not required. And let say if my assignment/training lasts for 4 months and I take a vacation on the 3rd month and subsequently return to Singapore to complete my forth month. Will that be possible/legal? How long do I have to stay away from Singapore in order to come back?

Thanks again.

Post by **Strong Eagle** » Thu, 09 Dec 2010 7:47 pm

sg_retro wrote:@Amyloidosis: can you PM your e-mail address? I can't reply to your message because the reply and PM function have been disabled.

PM will work when you have five posts.

Mad Scientist · Post by **Mad Scientist** » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 3:27 am

sg_retro wrote: Going back to my case. Is it correct that for a short-term assignment/training (<3 months) an Employment Pass is not required. And let say if my assignment/training lasts for 4 months and I take a vacation on the 3rd month and subsequently return to Singapore to complete my forth month. Will that be possible/legal? How long do I have to stay away from Singapore in order to come back?

Thanks again.

First of all , you cannot be on short term training without a valid pass to enter SG. The max you can get for a Social Visit Pass is 90 days if you come from UK, US. OZ and some European countries etc.
Under Social Visit Pass you CANNOT work nor conduct any business or you will be committing immigration offense which carries heavy penalties and you will be banned entering SG for 5 years in some cases.

So... if you are going for training or assignment in your own company in Singapore either you get a business visa or Long Term Visit Pass. You will need a local sponsor to do this. This is the legal route

http://www.ica.gov.sg/page.aspx?pageid=173
http://www.ica.gov.sg/data/resources/do ... rmV39A.pdf

Your idea of coming here under the pretense of social visit but in actual fact going for training may attract undesirable eyes and circumstances which I am not going to promote nor recommend. This risk is yours to take.
Under TEP i.e Temporary Employment Pass go to www.mom.gov.sg is another route http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/ ... reignStuds
I have to remind you that your chances under TEP is slim as you are ex-Sger but you can have a go for this

All social visitor has to return back to their Point of Departure country where they came from . Usually the turn around is 5 days

BlackEagle · Post by **BlackEagle** » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 4:09 am

sg_retro wrote:Hi all,

I hope someone is able to give me some advise on the following.

The problem I'm facing now is as follows. I'm now working as a consultant for a big American firm in Europe. This week I was told by my boss that he wants to send me to Singapore for training and perhaps in combination with a short-term assignment. He plans to send me to Singapore for 3 to 4 months starting in January 2010.

Please help. This is driving me nuts.

May I know what kind of consultant services are you working as that your big American Co needs to send you for training in Singapore ?
Our company always send our German/Swiss engineers to Singapore to work ( products transfer) for 1 - 2 months without any visa/permit, only as a tourist and it is OK. because they are not paid by our Singapore office.

sg_retro · Post by **sg_retro** » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 5:19 am

@MS: once again. Thank you very much for your patient and advice. I was actually suggesting of getting a Work Pass Exemption: http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/ ... fault.aspx
Although I'm not entire sure in which category my skill fits in. I won't want to get banned from entering Singapore by doing something stupid or illegal.

@BlackEagle: I'm a consultant in financial services. Today I found out that it's actually an assignment and not a training. Some training on the job will be involved but I guess that this is normal for anyone who starts with a new assignment. I'm paid directly by the European office and not by Singapore office. Our client is European and we were asked to assist its subsidary in Singapore. When I enter Singapore I get a 90 days visa stamp. Under the above mentioned constraints, does it mean that I can work in Singapore for up to 90 days as long as I'm not paid by the Singapore office? If so, this would solve all my problems. I really hope that this is true. I do remember that 2 of my colleagues went to Singapore for a 3 week assignment without having to apply for a visa/permit.

Mad Scientist · Post by **Mad Scientist** » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 5:49 am

@sg retro

You should go for business visa application as per my earlier post.

http://www.ica.gov.sg/services_centre_o ... &secid=170

What your colleague did is basically "trying and testing their luck". I would not advise you to go that route. It is better to be at the side of caution.

Although chances of getting caught is minimum but sometimes luck do runs out.

BlackEagle · Post by **BlackEagle** » Fri, 10 Dec 2010 5:49 am

[quote="sg_retro"

@BlackEagle: I'm a consultant in financial services. Today I found out that it's actually an assignment and not a training. Some training on the job will be involved but I guess that this is normal for anyone who starts with a new assignment. I'm paid directly by the European office and not by Singapore office. Our client is European and we were asked to assist its subsidary in Singapore. When I enter Singapore I get a 90 days visa stamp. Under the above mentioned constraints, does it mean that I can work in Singapore for up to 90 days as long as I'm not paid by the Singapore office? If so, this would solve all my problems. I really hope that this is true. I do remember that 2 of my colleagues went to Singapore for a 3 week assignment without having to apply for a visa/permit.[/quote

IMO you will be OK as a business trip and nothing to worried about.

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