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Renounce Singapore Citizenship

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eleewhm
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Postby eleewhm » Sat, 03 Jul 2010 7:16 am

ok... i am leaving singapore soon... sometime in July 2011 to the US for work... i believe i will be there for a good ten years before deciding to return back home here or not..

I am more concern and planning for my son,
- he will be 7 yrs by july 2011 and turn 8 on Aug 2011 when we bring him out of singapore..


do i need to apply a exit permit for him later in life?.. and when is the latest he needs to be back to serve his NS.. cause i believe that once my son is on the US education system by 18 .. he would be either preparing to go to a Uni etc.. can he be exempted till he finish his degree and return to serve NS... ??


experts pls help

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 03 Jul 2010 6:09 pm

eleewhm wrote:ok... i am leaving singapore soon... sometime in July 2011 to the US for work... i believe i will be there for a good ten years before deciding to return back home here or not..

I am more concern and planning for my son,
- he will be 7 yrs by july 2011 and turn 8 on Aug 2011 when we bring him out of singapore..


do i need to apply a exit permit for him later in life?

Yes
.. and when is the latest he needs to be back to serve his NS..

16 and half for NS Pre registration
cause i believe that once my son is on the US education system by 18 ..
he would be either preparing to go to a Uni etc.. can he be exempted till he finish his degree and return to serve NS... ??

No , he cannot defer for tertiary education

experts pls help


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mimosa80
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need help regarding son's singapore citizenship

Postby mimosa80 » Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:04 pm

Hello everyone,

This is my first time posting in this forum, any help would be very much appreciated. The situation goes like this:

My family is originally from China, we moved to Singapore when my son is 8. Our family took the oath and became citizens some years later, obtaining the passport and pink IC.

My husband had cancer when my son was turning 17. Since we do not have extended family in Singapore, our family returned to China that year for medical treatment and family support, a few months before my son "officially" turned 17 later in the year.

We asked Mindef for my son's deferment or renouncement, both were rejected (cannot renounce before 21). We explained that my husband can die within a few months if the bone marrow transplant in China with a close relative fails, hence our son needs to be with the family (only child too). Mindef outright rejected both deferment and renouncement. So my son applied for an exit permit, left using his Chinese passport and never came back to Singapore. My husband died 5 years later because of complications (my hands are shaking as I type this).

I want the best for my son. He's now in his upper twenties approaching 30. Can he send his Singapore passport to Singapore Immigration for renouncement (since he's past 21) and clear everything up so that he can visit the place he and his family grew up in? I would appreicate ANY advice. Thank you.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:21 pm

mimosa80,

It's sadly, I have to say this, but you son is classified as a deserter. If you contact MINDEF they will tell your son to please come to Singapore to clear the matter up. What they won't say is that, in their version of clearing it up, it means he will be fined and spend some time in Jail and upon release, will possibly be made to do NS anyway. Only after doing NS will the government even consider renouncement. For all intents as purposes, unless this is acceptable to your son, Singapore does not exist for him and the closest he can get to Singapore would be Johor Bahru in Malaysia. It's the pits, but the gahmen here are totally unforgiving on matter relating to NS unless ALL protocol have been followed to the "T".

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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 21 Jul 2010 4:27 am

I grief for your loss too Mimosa80.

What SMS said is true under the Ennlistment Act Chap 93 and section 33 of the same act and Singapore Constitution Article 128(a),(b). This is a watertight act.
Nonetheless, I would be inclined to do this as you have nothing to lose
1. Return his SG Passport and Pink IC to Citizen Advise Bureau of ICA Kallang. The address is at www.ica.gov.sg
2. Make sure you photocopy both the IC and PP all the pages for future reference .
3. Make a copy of your husband death certificate and medical history
4. Write a cover letter that you wish to return and cancel your son PP and apply for renunciation of SG Citizenship and explained in DETAILS your reasons. Mitigate on the grounds of compassion.Make sure you have a return address for you to correspond and return acknowledgement from ICA .
5. Do the same for CMPB of Mindef the address is at www.ns.gov.sg
6. They will do three things for you .
a) acknowledge cancelation of PP
b). ICA will contact CMPB . Extremely sensitive issue but it is worth a shot. CMPB deny renounce is highly possible
c) Ask your son to return to face the music.

Now, if he is over 30, chances of him serving NS is remote. Going to jail maybe 50-50.Higher fine most definitely.Discuss b4 he takes the plunge and make sure you got it in writing from CMPB
At the end of the day, correspond with them with all intent and purpose. Try to negotiate this minefield carefully. I do not know of any cases during my time hence this is only based on my perception.
If you need more help , let us know. God Speed
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Re: need help regarding son's singapore citizenship

Postby Koalabear » Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:32 pm

mimosa80 wrote:Hello everyone,

This is my first time posting in this forum, any help would be very much appreciated. The situation goes like this:

My family is originally from China, we moved to Singapore when my son is 8. Our family took the oath and became citizens some years later, obtaining the passport and pink IC.

My husband had cancer when my son was turning 17. Since we do not have extended family in Singapore, our family returned to China that year for medical treatment and family support, a few months before my son "officially" turned 17 later in the year.

We asked Mindef for my son's deferment or renouncement, both were rejected (cannot renounce before 21). We explained that my husband can die within a few months if the bone marrow transplant in China with a close relative fails, hence our son needs to be with the family (only child too). Mindef outright rejected both deferment and renouncement. So my son applied for an exit permit, left using his Chinese passport and never came back to Singapore. My husband died 5 years later because of complications (my hands are shaking as I type this).

I want the best for my son. He's now in his upper twenties approaching 30. Can he send his Singapore passport to Singapore Immigration for renouncement (since he's past 21) and clear everything up so that he can visit the place he and his family grew up in? I would appreicate ANY advice. Thank you.


That is very sad to hear. Is china's medical treatment better than Singapore's? It might have been much better for the treatment to be carried out in Singapore so there is audibility and verfiability. MINDEF is not going to hire private detectives in China to check what you did or did not do.

Anyway there is no harm trying what MS said.

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Postby mimosa80 » Thu, 22 Jul 2010 8:24 pm

Hi everyone,

Thank you all for your input.

To Koalabear, the diagnosis and treatment started in Sg, we still have the paperwork. The issues are cost and family support, which happened to be more favorable back in China.

To Mad Scientist, thank you for your suggestions. I have a question regarding contacting ICA Kallang and CMPB of Mindef in parallel. Should I just try canceling my son's passport via ICA and wait for response before contacting CMPB of Mindef? I was just wondering if I should be initiating two threads of negotiation and possibly complicate matters. Or do you suggest I contact CMPB of Mindef first? My son will be 30 in two years.

Also, does it mean that my son's situation will be cleared if he is able to renounce his citizenship, with a letter from ICA?

SMS, thanks for your input too.

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Postby Koalabear » Fri, 23 Jul 2010 1:09 am

mimosa80 wrote:Hi everyone,

Thank you all for your input.

To Koalabear, the diagnosis and treatment started in Sg, we still have the paperwork. The issues are cost and family support, which happened to be more favorable back in China.

To Mad Scientist, thank you for your suggestions. I have a question regarding contacting ICA Kallang and CMPB of Mindef in parallel. Should I just try canceling my son's passport via ICA and wait for response before contacting CMPB of Mindef? I was just wondering if I should be initiating two threads of negotiation and possibly complicate matters. Or do you suggest I contact CMPB of Mindef first? My son will be 30 in two years.

Also, does it mean that my son's situation will be cleared if he is able to renounce his citizenship, with a letter from ICA?

SMS, thanks for your input too.


If that is the case I will probably do a comparative analysis of medical costs in Singapore (with govt subsidy) vs China and show them that with your savings, it is impossible for your husband to stay alive in Singapore. While CMPB rules are pretty strict, most people I know are compassionate human beings. As long as you can prove that you did not try to beat the gahmen at their own game (make a profit out of them as opposed to them making a profit out of you), officials will do their best to help you within the context of law.

Is your son willing to serve 2 years of NS to renounce?

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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 23 Jul 2010 4:14 am

mimosa80 wrote:To Mad Scientist, thank you for your suggestions. I have a question regarding contacting ICA Kallang and CMPB of Mindef in parallel. Should I just try canceling my son's passport via ICA and wait for response before contacting CMPB of Mindef? I was just wondering if I should be initiating two threads of negotiation and possibly complicate matters. Or do you suggest I contact CMPB of Mindef first? My son will be 30 in two years.

Go parallel via snail mail. Send one set of doc to CMPB
3 Depot Road #02-07 Singapore 109680 Ph: 65 6373 3132 or email at cmpb@starnet.gov.sg
Attention : MS Yum Kah Leng or Madam Tan or Ms Cheryl Tan.

Another to Citizen Advise Bureau at ICA Kallang
Attention to Mrs Pang SY(Supervisor ) . This must include his SG Passport and China Passport(photocopy). Get the China PP notarise for that matter. Copy China PP pages to show his border control movement to show he did not leave to other country/ies just to evade NS. Unless he did that then you are on your own which the Gahmen knows that this is a ploy.

It will not complicate matters to send the docs at simultaneous time as your son is already an NS defaulter per se. They will liase between agencies


Also, does it mean that my son's situation will be cleared if he is able to renounce his citizenship, with a letter from ICA?

Like I said, I do not know of known cases during my time hence this is ONLY my suggestion. I have gone thru many cases for you on the past three days but I do not have anything specific per your situation. I DARE NOT comment something unless I have concrete evidence.
What can possible happen ? Your son renounciation is rejected hence he must NOT return to SG even transit via Changi Airport unless he wants to face the music.
Or they let you renounce and he does not need to face the music BUT chances of him being banned is higly possible.
SG Gahmen does not want anyone to beat the system and return to tell their tale. It will be a smack on their face.
I wish I could do more for you, it hurts me when I am not able to find a solution for a person in real need. :cry:
Honestly I really do not know how it will turn out.
Please remember to mitigate with all intents and purposes on compassionate ground. Please post again the outcome which will be about two to three weeks if you start the ball rolling now
Good Luck and take care.


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Amyloidosis
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Compassionate grounds for appeal: any recommended avenues?

Postby Amyloidosis » Tue, 07 Dec 2010 3:28 am

Dear Mad Scientist, Sunday Morning Staple, PHK and others,
My mother is dying a slow and painful death from a debilitating illness which has ravaged her body for the last 3 years. I've searched this forum for compassionate situations/exceptions but have not found a good match.

I've been reading the threads on this forum for a couple of years - I wish my parents and I had had the benefit of this forum as a guide back in the 1980s and 1990s but there was no real internet culture then and lack of information/misinformation put me in my current position as a NS defaulter. This is the first time I am writing as I have not had anything new to contribute.

As a UK-SG dual national by birth in Singapore, I am liable and understand the Singapore policy from my own experience and the posts on these forums which is consistent with everything I have experienced. Over the years of writing to MinDef (and others) with the same rejections, there are few (no?) avenues left and over the years the policy seems only to have become more stringent over time.

I left at 1 yr old on a Singapore passport, returned on a Singapore passport at 8; got a pink NRIC at 11 or 12. All mistakes but at the time my parents (teachers in the 1970s/early 80s, my father a VSO who went to SG to help the country develop) did not know the consequences and took what they thought was the simplest route. At 15 when my UK father obtained my UK passport (as a dual citizen, but the UK High Commissions asked him to surrender the SG passport to them) we left as a family back to UK in 1988. The predecessor to the ICA had told my mother there was no problem to do this and simply to renounce at 21 yrs (but that is all they said). The usual EP letters followed and correspondence on deferment too which was allowed initially for undergraduate studies. However, they asked for a bond which we could not afford, and then they said deferment pending renunciation would not be allowed on the grounds that we had not truly emigrated back to the UK as my mother was still a SG citizen even though she had no other citizenship and had right of abode in UK through a "patriality stamp" in her passport. All this was such that 6 months before I was 21 yrs old I was classed as a defaulter in 1993 while in the midst of ongoing correspondence. All appeals were rejected. Registration of renunciation of SG citizenship at 21 yrs old was also declined due to the NS problem. Anyway, from the threads I know where we went wrong and seems there is nothing I can do now.

It would not matter so much as my life and work is outside of Singapore, but unfortunately, my parents went back to SG unexpectedly and suddenly for personal reasons in the late 1990s while I was finishing post-graduate studies, and throughout my working life the JB-and-elsewhere family holidays outside Singapore has been the familiar story for the last 14+ years.

My mother began suffering from a mysterious neuropathy in the mid-2000s (24 hour nerve pain and deteriorating bodily (including bowel and motor) functions). It was clear she would be bedridden eventually and overseas travel is increasingly difficult and will at some point become impossible. So, in 2008, I wrote through lawyers (using lawyers for the first time) to MinDef again (to MinDef only at the lawyer’s suggestion) to appeal on compassionate grounds to be allowed to visit her and clear up defaulter status and renounce SG citizenship (tried twice before then already). The standard MinDef negative response came and the lawyers could only offer impractical and expensive options. In March 2009, my maternal grandmother had a stroke and after 3 weeks passed away in April. I was unable to visit her in hospital or attend her funeral or be there to support my mother in her grief (compounded on top of her illness). A month later in May 2009, my father died of a heart attack. Again, I was unable to attend the funeral or support family in their grief. I nearly went back to support my mother then but was strongly advised against it as a criminal conviction has obvious long term consequences. Soon after, a biopsy diagnosed my mother as having a form of amyloidosis (rogue proteins produced by the liver which deposit on organs, muscles, nerves and destroy them). Only a liver transplant offered her any hope but by then she was too weak to qualify (or even survive) as an organ transplant recipient. (There was a widely publicized case of this disease in Singapore of a man who was the first double heart and liver transplant patient in Singapore which triggered us to seek the biopsy: http://www.medindia.net/news/Singapore- ... 0427-1.htm ). The doctors say she has 2-3 years left (I hope longer as she is tough, but to see her in pain and suffering as her body fails brings tears to my eyes whenever I think of it...). She is only 67. I am 37.

I could go back and face the music, serve NS (as I am under 40 and could do with losing weight), pay a fine, go to jail or perhaps spend 6-18 mths in the courts fighting a case (as in the case of Seow Wei Sin which has come up in this forum though as my “offence”

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 07 Dec 2010 10:04 am

Ouch!

Amyloidosis.

I really feel your pain. MS will see this later once he's up & around (time differences) and if anybody can give you any assurances or suggestions, it would be him. Nobody else here has the depth or wealth of knowledge. I know I do not but surely wish I did. Your reading of things is correct and your message is extremely clear and well thought out. I hope that MS can suggest something.

sms

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Postby Amyloidosis » Tue, 07 Dec 2010 2:38 pm

Thanks SMS.
I've noticed MS deleting his posts and the farewell thread though he seems to be around still on other threads. Hopefully he can at least PM me if he is able.

And to the SG authorities who may be reading this, please do PM me if you can guide me as this is a case of human compassion. My mother was even in the women's volunteer army in Singapore when she was a young woman for what its worth. Please don't punish her in punishing me for being forced to chose one birth right over another by SG's own laws.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 07 Dec 2010 3:31 pm

Amyloidosis.

Make 5 post then PM me DOB, SG IC , PP , BC number. foreign PP , full name and we will got from there.

ms
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Postby JR8 » Tue, 07 Dec 2010 4:08 pm

What a ghastly situation to be in. I wish you the best of luck.

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Postby Amyloidosis » Tue, 07 Dec 2010 4:43 pm

Thanks SMS, MS and others. Sorry about the random posts to follow to get my 5 so I can PM...


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