Renounce Singapore Citizenship

neanderthal · Post by **neanderthal** » Sat, 26 Jan 2008 2:41 am

OP's point is that he now has a different name than his birth name and so should be able to enter Singapore under the new identity and as a British citizen. What he's worried about is that he will be arrested in Singapore as a Singapore citizen for not doing his NS.

Of course, he WILL be arrested here if he's dumb enough to say he's really a Singapore citizen and has not done his NS.

Are we to expect that he, being a British of Chinese origin, will be singled out at the Singapore immigration checkpoint when he arrives and be asked for his birth certificate and/or renunciation papers in order to verify his citizenship/NS status? C'mon, give me a break!

BHC won't help him? He won't know till he asks, will he? Unless you're from the BHC yourself, Plavt, why should we take your word that there is no point in asking them for help?

In fact, what I'd like to know is why is the OP putting his question about Singapore citizenship and Singapore national service to a bunch of ignorant, clueless, fear-mongering expats?

byung_hun · Post by **byung_hun** » Sat, 26 Jan 2008 3:47 am

I actually thought about going back to Singapore in November to face NS. After all, I have not been there for more than 10 years. There is only one way to find out what will happen when I enter the country: I have to see it for myself by flying there.
I think that I am self-confident enough to face it. But I hope that everything will turn out well once I say that I am ready to serve NS and will not leave until it is completed !

ksl · Post by **ksl** » Sat, 26 Jan 2008 3:58 am

byung_hun wrote:I actually thought about going back to Singapore in November to face NS. After all, I have not been there for more than 10 years. There is only one way to find out what will happen when I enter the country: I have to see it for myself my flying there.
I think that I am self-confident enough to face it. But I hope that everything will turn out well once I say that I am ready to serve NS and will not leave until it is completed !

Ring the NS recruitment and tell them you are arriving, before hand...that way, you may not be arrested..The onus is on you to report in, you can ask them on the phone, if you can arrange the date, to turn up, after you have visited your relatives in Singapore. I doubt immigration will arrest you, but they may pass information onto the MOD police, who will eventually pick you up, if you don't infrom them before hand.

Don't worry, so much, it's quite painless, just put your mind to it,and enjoy it...when they shout at you, which they will, let it go through one ear and out the other, don't take it personal. Life is much easier today, than 30 years ago...You have human rights and all that crap on your side today!

I'm not sure if the Brits, still train the regulars in UK, there was a time, that recruit trainers, were sent from Hong Kong & Singapore on instructors courses...Warminster for weapons and Pirbright for drill, with the Guards regiment.

Plavt · Post by **Plavt** » Sat, 26 Jan 2008 4:53 am

neanderthal wrote:OP's point is that he now has a different name than his birth name and so should be able to enter Singapore under the new identity and as a British citizen. What he's worried about is that he will be arrested in Singapore as a Singapore citizen for not doing his NS.

Just in case you did not read an early post of mine; British passports state your place of birth and just for your reference I have just checked my old one issued in 1997 and shock horror that does too!

Are we to expect that he, being a British of Chinese origin, will be singled out at the Singapore immigration checkpoint when he arrives and be asked for his birth certificate and/or renunciation papers in order to verify his citizenship/NS status? C'mon, give me a break!

How do you know he won't be, certain races are subject to more scrutiny than others.

BHC won't help him? He won't know till he asks, will he? Unless you're from the BHC yourself, Plavt, why should we take your word that there is no point in asking them for help?

Not a case of my word; what part of dual-nationality do you not understand? Singapore is a republic independent of the British Government.

n fact, what I'd like to know is why is the OP putting his question about Singapore citizenship and Singapore national service to a bunch of ignorant, clueless, fear-mongering expats?

Ha ha, you are just being childish now.

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Sat, 26 Jan 2008 9:36 am

If nothing else here, one thing is for certain. Neanderthal picked an appropriate nick. He obviously doesn't read the written word too well. Even posted links to government sites throughout the many threads on this subject don't sway him. Sad to say, but the UK like the US, has little very little S & A power any more (Shock & Awe).

Maybe we need to do some cave painting for him.

byung_hun · Post by **byung_hun** » Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:13 pm

so the whole problem will be settled once I say that I want to serve, right?

But I am just worried about another thing, I do not have an exit permit and I have never had one since I left Singapore in 1997. Could any problems occur in terms of not having an exit permit while staying overseas and when I suddenly return and they see that I have never applied for one?? *fear*

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:41 pm

byung_hun,

Because you are already at least 20, I'm not sure just how Ministry of Defense will handle it or for that matter the Ministry of Foreign affairs.

I really do not foresee any real problems if you notify Mindef of you intention to return and to do your NS. The only stumbling block I see is the dual citizenship thing. Singapore law say you cannot hold dual citizenship after the age of 21. Under the situation however, I doubt if anything would be done provided you did your NS and also indicated up front that you would be renouncing your Citizenship upon completion of your NS active duty. This way all bases would be covered.

I would "just do it" and not worry too much. It's the runners that they are after not those who are a victim of their parents ignorance of the requirement when taking a male child out of the country. As you can see by the threads here you aren't the only one and you won't be the last......

Regarding the exit permit, when you were taken out of the country you didn't need an exit permit. So that shouldn't be a problem either. You just stayed out longer then you were supposed to. Make a few long distance calls to check things out with Mindef before you arrive in the country.

sms

byung_hun · Post by **byung_hun** » Sun, 27 Jan 2008 1:36 am

wtf? It is really no problem to stay overseas without having an a valid exit permit??

:D wow cool ! I always thought that it would be really harsh for those who are caught without one. well, I never had one hehe

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:47 am

byung_hun wrote:wtf? It is really no problem to stay overseas without having an a valid exit permit?? :D wow cool ! I always thought that it would be really harsh for those who are caught without one. well, I never had one hehe

Exit Permit

About

Away from Singapore? Apply for your Exit Permit online. The Enlistment (Exit Permit) Regulations require all NS liable persons to comply with the exit control regulation for security and mobilisation purposes. The reporting and exit permit requirements may vary in accordance with age, National Service status, duration of trip, purpose of visit and destination.

With effect from 1 Aug 2006, NSmen will not be required to surrender their exit permits upon their return to Singapore.

With effect from 15 Aug 2006, NS liable persons aged 13 years and above will be required to apply for an exit permit to travel overseas.

Exit Permit

From my reading of this it would appear that you were not required to file an exit permit when you left as you were only 9. However, while you should have filed for one when you were 13 I am not sure that that was the case when you were 13 as it would seem that this is the case only from 15 Aug 2006. Again, having been out of the country since 9, I would think that Mindef would be understanding that you probably didn't even have a clue until recently. Again, a couple of long distance phone calls should take care of that before you try to re-enter the country.

Always advise calling beforehand so you don't have any unpleasant surprises once you arrive.

byung_hun · Post by **byung_hun** » Sun, 27 Jan 2008 6:34 pm

hehe, I just gave MINDEF a call and they said that my old surname is no longer registered in Singapore. I mean, how can they actually know that I have changed my name, of course they are not aware of that. That means that my new surname Baker is not registered in Singapore any longer. They probably have Steven Lee registered but definitely not Steven Baker. Completely impossible.

ksl · Post by **ksl** » Sun, 27 Jan 2008 9:54 pm

byung_hun wrote:hehe, I just gave MINDEF a call and they said that my old surname is no longer registered in Singapore. I mean, how can they actually know that I have changed my name, of course they are not aware of that. That means that my new surname Baker is not registered in Singapore any longer. They probably have Steven Lee registered but definitely not Steven Baker. Completely impossible.

Don't count your chickens before they are hatched! Your old name, would have been removed from the register, when you left with your family at 9 years old, which is normal procedure, when you are no longer a resident.

They will of course have Steven Lee, registered as a none resident, and if Steven Baker telephoned, to see if his name was on the register, don't you think the alarm bells are ringing....so now.

It's very easy to check online, through the UK register to trace any name change, in fact they have professionals that do it in the UK, for a small amount. Very often used for tracing relatives!

Would they do anything like that...Mindef..Military Police, yes, without a doubt! So you are more than likely being tracked now!

For them it's their job, to track down, ones, that should have turned in for duty.

Good thinking batman! Although before you vist Singapore, ring again and tell them you are coming, u don't want to be bounced twice!

I myself just pulled several hundred Steven Bakers from the electorate roll for 2008...Now I'm on to you...The next step is this:

What is important is that your Deed Poll document you send to the Passport Office shows your name changing from your birth name to the name you are known by: It wouldn't surprise me if passport offices around the world, work together, to find people breaking the law!

http://www.192.com/search/people.cfm Come on, I could find you in the UK, within a couple of hours at most, now I have two names to work on!

WOW it's took me all of 30 minutes and I have your full address! Amazing technology!

There wasn't any other Steven Lee"s from Singapore, changing their name to Baker, it appears the whole family did it, together!

I have actually located a guy, that stole everything I owned over 30 years ago....the problem is, how should I deal with it

Plavt · Post by **Plavt** » Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:02 pm

There will be no difficulty in tracing and finding out he OP's particulars. My passport states my place of birth as Devizes, which is a little known town in my home county of Wiltshire (usually unheard of by a foreigner). The OP's birthplace will be stated as Singapore. When you land in Singapore you fill in a landing card which will ask if you have visited Singapore before. Most travelers will have noticed the immigration is the slowest part of entering the country and the staff scrutinize certain things - mostly likely your nationality and where your were born! When they see byung-hung as born in Singapore and never having entered the country before they will I think do some checking as they are most likely on the look out for any would be NS dodgers.

byung_hun · Post by **byung_hun** » Sun, 27 Jan 2008 11:07 pm

Well, to summarize it all:
I have left Singapore at age of 9 in 1997 (with Singapore passport, but it expired)
I never had an exit permit
I now have a British passport and I am a citizen of the UK, the passport only shows one nationality and that's the British one.
I have obtained a new surname.
By the way I did not mention my current name while I was talking to them, who would be that stupid ? ^^ I just asked whether that name is still registered there.
And I hope that everything will be settled when I go back to Singapore and tell them that I am ready for NS.

I have to do so since I really want to live and work back in Singapore.

ksl · Post by **ksl** » Mon, 28 Jan 2008 2:09 am

byung_hun wrote:Well, to summarize it all:
I have left Singapore at age of 9 in 1997 (with Singapore passport, but it expired)
I never had an exit permit
I now have a British passport and I am a citizen of the UK, the passport only shows one nationality and that's the British one.
I have obtained a new surname.
By the way I did not mention my current name while I was talking to them, who would be that stupid ? ^^ I just asked whether that name is still registered there.
And I hope that everything will be settled when I go back to Singapore and tell them that I am ready for NS.

I have to do so since I really want to live and work back in Singapore.

who would be that stupid ? ^^ I just asked whether that name is still registered there.

No worries sunshine, I was just teasing you!

To be honest there are many stupid people around!

I'm happy for you! The sooner you get it done the better you'll feel, just grit your teeth and go for it!

It's not that bad, In fact I don't know why you don't join up has a regular, and use the military to get all your education, if that's at all possible.

You can at least get has many skills as possible, that you can use in civvy street, like i did myself...they always come in handy! And surely they have all the adventure training too, you will be surprised, just how much you will mature, and gain much more knowledge, than guys, that have never seen service.

byung_hun · Post by **byung_hun** » Tue, 29 Jan 2008 2:15 am

I also think that NS would be an enrichment for the life. I am really looking forward to return to Singapore after such a long time to do start NS.

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