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Renounce Singapore Citizenship

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byung_hun
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Renounce Singapore Citizenship

Postby byung_hun » Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:24 pm

Hi you guys! I really do hope that you are able to assist me in my situation.

I was born in Singapore in 1998 and therefore I am normally a subject to the NS. But I left Singapore in the year 1997 at the age of nine years. Until now I have not set foot into Singapore. It has been more than ten years and I find it more than sad that I cannot enter the country without knowing what will happen. I just want to see my families and old friends once again and see all the changes that have occured during my absence.
I am now living in the U.K since the year 1997 after the departure from Singapore. I have obtained British Citizenship at the age of 18 and furthermore I was given a British passport. My former surname used to be "LEE". But my mother's new husband has adopted me at the age of 17 without which I was not able to obtain British Citizenship.

I will be 21 in the next year. Is it possible to renounce the Singaporean Citizenship without having any problems with army or government? I myself do not know what will happen when I enter the country and therefore I have decided to stay away from Singapore until I am 21 and furthermore I do not even know whether I am still a citizen of Singapore.

I have no other wish except to see Singapore once again. I would do everything.
I would be more than thankful if you are all able to give me some advice to facilitate this matter!

Regards, Steven
Last edited by byung_hun on Thu, 23 Jul 2009 7:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Plavt
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Postby Plavt » Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:36 pm


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Postby byung_hun » Sun, 20 Jan 2008 8:39 pm

Ok I see.

But will I be arrested once I arrive in Singapore?? After all I have not been there for more then 10 years now. Can I only renounce the Singapore Citizenship after I have completed NS?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:54 am

Interesting question. I would be inclined to think that you probably would get away with it (but it would depend what in included in the UK passport (I'm not British) I also don't know if the UK passport is biometric or not. From my perspective, if the parents names are not on the passport anywhere then the fact that you have a passport with a different name should let you through with no problem provided your Place of Birth is not noted on the passport.

However, if you passport shows your Place of Birth and you are of ethnic asian appearance then there may well be a slim chance of them picking you up based on searches of databases of males with your date of birth, born in Singapore who have neither registered for NS nor filed intent to renounce citizenship or registered as being deceased. Not particularly difficult to search the databases here as all government databases are now interlinked. A standing query to flag any passport with those characteristics would be a good place to start.

So, with that, I would say anything is a gamble. Would you be arrested? only if you were found out. I would doubt however that they would arrest you after you were in if you contact Mindef in order to do your NS after arrival (but again, I am not the authorities so really it's anybody's guess.

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Postby Plavt » Tue, 22 Jan 2008 2:49 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Interesting question. I would be inclined to think that you probably would get away with it (but it would depend what in included in the UK passport (I'm not British)


New issues and renewed passports are biometric and show your birthplace (town that is and so did the older version). :? New applicants need to attend the passport office whereas mine is issued as a replacement so quite how much other information is on the chip I don't know.
Last edited by Plavt on Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby byung_hun » Tue, 22 Jan 2008 9:51 pm

Well since I do not have a Singapore passport but a British one, do you think that Singapore will grant me a new Singapore passport when I enter the country and when I say that I am ready to serve National Service?? Is it recommended to go to Singapore? after all I do want to serve in order to set this matter straight ! :)

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Postby whiskey02 » Wed, 23 Jan 2008 1:28 pm

actually, to renounce a country citizenship, I believe that you'll need to take a vow before an appointed government officer. If I'm not wrong, you are still a Singaporean and therefore is liable for NS.

Personally, I feel that you should just call/email ICA (Immigrations & Checkpoints Authourity of Singapore) to check on your citizenship status.

These are the details:
10 Kallang Road
ICA Building
Singapore 208718
(Next to Lavender MRT station)
Tel: 6391 6100
Fax: 6298 0843 / 6298 0837
Website: http://www.ica.gov.sg
Email: ica_feedback@ica.gov.sg

Hope this helps.

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Postby byung_hun » Wed, 23 Jan 2008 9:41 pm

yes, but the point is that I have a different surname now, since I was adopted by my mother's new husband. I now have a British surname. Therefore it could be possible that my old name is registered as a Singapore Citizen but I wonder whether I have retained the citizenship even though I have a different surname now and I guess that I am not registered at ICA.
Isn't that so, guys? ;)

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 24 Jan 2008 9:40 am

I don't know. They would obviously still have you listed as a citizen of Singapore using your birth name. They would not remove your name unless formal renunciation had taken place or a death certificate had been filed or a missing persons report had been filed over I believe 7 previously. Therefore yes you would still be listed as a Citizen under you old name.

What I don't know it what transpires between the various government ministries. I don't know how much interaction there is when someone applies for and receives new citizenship paper. I don't know if the new countries notifies the other countries embassy to inform them or not. I doubt it but again in the interests of terrorism and the worlds paranoia in general they may well do so. That of course is only speculation on my part but it is conceivable moreso considering the Singapore is still considered a commonwealth country. :?

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Postby whiskey02 » Thu, 24 Jan 2008 11:47 am

i agree with sundaymorningstaple. I believe that the system in Singapore still has your old name and that it is not updated.

Another point is I also believe that ministries will not communicate among themselves for this issue because it is more of micro-managing everyone and it is on the individual's responsibility to inform the ministries.

I still suggest you give a call to ICA Singapore and find out more...

no point speculating and in the end, everything does not go your way....

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Postby neanderthal » Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:56 pm

Sometimes foreigners and semi-foreigners get a little over-paranoid about these things... :roll:

Look, if you say you are a British subject, then you have all the rights and privileges of one. You deserve the protection and assistance of your government (Britain) wherever you go.

Since Singapore does not allow dual citizenship, and you are already a British citizen, then it is logical to assume that Singapore will not recognise you as a Singapore citizen. I doubt that they will still only recognise you as a Singaporean and outright reject your British subject status. That will involve international relations issues.

Not allowing dual citizenship means that they will only recognise ONE citizenship. It does not mean that you are regarded a criminal and will get thrown into jail the moment you set foot here. That does not happen.

However, you ARE regarded a criminal and can go to jail if you abscond from your national service obligations. The keyword is 'abscond'. E.g. if you are 17 and in Singapore and are called up for NS but you disappear or don't report. If there are extenuating circumstances for your not being able to report, then they will consider your case and tell you how to sort it out.

What I would do is go to the Singapore High Commission in the UK and ask them about your status. If there are any documents to process or declarations/oaths to take, they would be the best people to tell you about the procedures.

The Immigration & Checkpoints Authority (ICA) processes citizenship and PR applications for those who are living and working here. They do not oversee citizenship status matters for those who are living overseas. Neither do they handle a male citizen's national service obligations; that comes under the Ministry of Defense.

If it comes to the worst, and if you do get handcuffed when you arrive (unlikely), then, if I were you, I would ask to see a British High Commission staff and ask the BHC to help you, which they are obligated to do, since you are a British subject.

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Postby Plavt » Fri, 25 Jan 2008 11:05 pm

Neanderthal,
Being a British subject in this instance means nothing; when you have dual citizenship and you travel to either country you are subject to that countries laws and their is nothing the other can do about it period.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 25 Jan 2008 11:46 pm

Plavt. Spot on.

The odds of Singapore recognizing the British Citizenship as being valid is null and void as well. He was born a male Singapore Citizen until such time as he renounces his citizenship he will continue to be a Singapore Citizen who has a second citizenship by other than by birth. This makes him illegal in the eyes of the law here. The law also states unless "formal" intention has been made to the Singapore Government prior to the individual reaching the age of 13 then he is liable by law to do NS "before" he is allowed to renounce at the age of 21. If he comes back into the country after the age of 18 and gets caught he will be arrested and forced to do NS regardless of what other passport he holds. The only possibility is if he did not have a valid Singapore passport past the age of 11 or 13 the he may well argue that he "has not enjoyed any benefit of his Singapore Citizenship. This is the one that usually screws everybody because the parents renew the passport at around 10 and it's good for 5 years and bang! gotcha! And yes, Singapore does micro-manage.

Even the US Embassy will tell you the same thing. If you are still a citizen of a particular country and you are picked up in that country then the rules of that country apply and the other country will NOT intervene. You are on your own.

Might be a good idea neanderthal to go back iand do some research before you write the next time. Opinions just don't get it.

Here is an example:

http://singapore.usembassy.gov/military ... apore.html

DUAL NATIONALITY
U.S. Policy on Dual Nationality

While recognizing the existence of dual nationality, the U.S. Government does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Dual nationality may hamper efforts by the U.S. Government to provide diplomatic and consular protection to individuals overseas. When a U.S. citizen is in the other country of their dual nationality, that country has a predominant claim on the person. A foreign country might claim you as a citizen of that country if (a) you were born there; (b) your parent or parents (and sometimes grandparents) are or were citizens of that country or (c) you are a naturalized U.S. citizen but are still considered a citizen under that country’s laws. (The oath you take when you are naturalized as a U.S. citizen (8 CFR 337.1) doesn’t mean the foreign country does not still regard you as a citizen of that country.) Public inquiries about the citizenship laws of other countries should be directed to the embassy or consulate of that country in the United States. 8 U.S.C. 1185(b) (Section 215(b) INA) and 22 CFR 53.1 require that U.S. citizens exit and enter the United States on a U.S. passport, with certain limited exceptions (22 CFR 53.2).

Under Singaporean law, an individual who automatically acquires Singaporean citizenship at birth retains that status even after acquiring U.S. citizenship. Singapore does not recognize dual nationality beyond the age of 21.

Click here or more information on Dual Citizens and Singapore Permanent Residents.

Further Information:

*
Possible Loss of U.S.Citizenship and Foreign Military Service
*
Loss of Nationality and Taxation
*
Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship

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Postby neanderthal » Sat, 26 Jan 2008 12:11 am

Agreed, Plavt.

If a British subject comes here, he is subject to Singapore's laws. If a Singapore citizen goes to the UK, he is subject to British law. Which should be the way.

So do you consider the OP a British subject or Singapore citizen? More importantly, does Singapore consider him British or Singaporean?

Despite the fact that Singapore does not allow its citizens to hold dual citizenship, there are many Singaporeans who DO hold two or more passports who come in and out, not to mention the thousands of foreigners who do too. You will not be arrested, as OP fears, if you hold dual citizenship.

If he is worried about his status and wants to avoid problems about his NS obligations, he could do what those with dual citizenship would do - use his British passport to visit Singapore.

If he encounters problems when he arrives, then, as I mentioned earlier, he can ask the British High Comm for help. After all, he is a British subject, is a permanent resident there and Britain issued him that passport.

How can being a British subject mean nothing in Singapore? That is to say that Singapore does not recognise British sovereignty.

And how can just having Singapore as your birth country means you will be forced to do your NS for Singapore, regardless of which citizenship you hold? That IS being a little paranoid.

He, or a friend, can still approach the Singapore High Comm in London and enquire about his status. Since Singapore citizens in the UK are subject to British law, they can't throw a British subject into jail, can they?

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Postby Plavt » Sat, 26 Jan 2008 1:28 am

neanderthal wrote:Agreed, Plavt.

So do you consider the OP a British subject or Singapore citizen? More importantly, does Singapore consider him British or Singaporean?


This is not the issue the fact is he has dual nationality that makes him a citizen of both countries, one of which namely Singapore does not allow him to renounce his citizenship until completion of NS!

Despite the fact that Singapore does not allow its citizens to hold dual citizenship, there are many Singaporeans who DO hold two or more passports who come in and out, not to mention the thousands of foreigners who do too.?


To be quite brutal I think you are just p***** in the wind! You and I cannot know the individual circumstances of the many other foreigners who hold dual citizenship and why they are able to come and go, foreigners such as myself are just that!

There is no point the OP approaching the British High Commission they will tell him the same thing! Singapore has its own government and it is entitled to do as it chooses. I wouldn't criticize too much NS still exists in France, Greece and many other European countries, Britain is the odd man out.
:o


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