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Looks like we are following Base-9 thinking we are decimal.

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Postby sierra2469alpha » Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:43 pm

Slight hijack here -

I'm with Banana - it's about a base position from where one counts...

Therefore, where IS the pizza in relation to ME?

If it's on my wife's side of the table, then I don't care which base system we're using - it's just plain damned wrong!!!! Unless, of course, I offerred it to her. Which I would. So, umm, ok, back to hex for me.

Sorry for the interruption - normal programming will continue 03 FA 32 1F 4E 32 12 A1 02.

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Postby banana » Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:43 pm

Shankar wrote:
banana wrote:You're confusing representational systems with positional systems. 0 is in the first of ten positions but it does not represent 1/10th of the value. Without 0, we may as well remain in base 1, that is using the same symbol repeated N times to represent the value of N.

I agree that there is some confusion along the way, between scratching out marks on cave walls to the numeric systems we use today, but it is something that the majority of the world has managed to wrap their heads around. What you're suggesting is a step back into the quagmire, not an improvement.


I do not know how without a 0, it goes back to Base 1, when it actually goes back to Base-9, since there would be 1-9. And whether you accept it or not, each number gets assigned 1/10th of the value in Base-10 and 1/9th value in Base-9 and 1/2 in Base-2.

Base 1 just has one. In another argument the Biggest no. is also 1 and all other numbers are only a part of it.

Suppose there are 2 pizzas of the same size, and the first one is cut into 4 equal parts & the second one is cut into 6 equal parts, and the pieces on both pizzas are numbered, hope you see that 1 in pizza 1 is not the same as 1 in pizza 2. Similarly, every number has a basis, as to which one it came from.

Moreover, as humans we are object oriented and not digital. Even XII is 12 only to us. But the question here is , if the pizza is cut into Ten pieces, how will you start numbering them ? will you start from 0? or from 1?

And as to what can be done?. Why should anything be done? What have we done after learning that it is the earth that goes around the Sun ? We still tell our kids that Sun rises in the east & sets in the west, when we pretty well know that Sun doesn't do much other than being stationed there. And why should it not be that the entire Solar system including the Milky Way is on another orbit, giving us the impression that it is fixed.

and what can we do about these Monkeys?
http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/Articl ... onkeys.htm


Oh I like that article, I do. It is, however, more relevant to qualitative concepts like say...politics, sociology, advertising, etc, or even astrophysics like your Sun example.

When you're talking numbers, it's different. We're trying to represent a quantitative value with symbols. You can have a pizza cut into 9 million pieces but it's still base-1. Each piece is the same as the other.

But when you want to communicate that to someone who isn't at the same location as the pizza, you use a symbol to represent how many pieces it was cut into. Or an elliptical symbol to represent there's none left for him. Like so. 0.

Otherwise you could bring the empty box but mate, you'd be a right twat to do so.
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Postby Forks » Thu, 17 Jul 2008 12:56 am

Angels on the head of a pin thats what this has all become.

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Postby Shankar » Thu, 17 Jul 2008 6:42 pm

banana wrote:Oh I like that article, I do. It is, however, more relevant to qualitative concepts like say...politics, sociology, advertising, etc, or even astrophysics like your Sun example.

When you're talking numbers, it's different. We're trying to represent a quantitative value with symbols. You can have a pizza cut into 9 million pieces but it's still base-1. Each piece is the same as the other.

But when you want to communicate that to someone who isn't at the same location as the pizza, you use a symbol to represent how many pieces it was cut into. Or an elliptical symbol to represent there's none left for him. Like so. 0.

Otherwise you could bring the empty box but mate, you'd be a right twat to do so.


Anything and everything has a philosophy and a basis. When you cut the pizza into 9 million pcs, each piece gets the value 1/9millionth. Base-1 is when the pizza is never cut, where 0 is no pizza and 1 is 1 pizza.

The article is relevant here too, as we have been made to beleive in the numbers , but were never taught the philosophy of it. So we simply repeat in a standaradised manner, so no twat gets better than the other twat, atleast Quantitatively. Hope you can see that even a kid will bring something, but not an empty box.

It is always in the quality, that we are made twats.. as obviously your eye can't tell, whether it is 1/5th of a pizza or 1/6th of a pizza. Even if it is maintained as 1/6th = 1pce.. we won't know how the pizza gets shrunk the next day or the ingredients reduced. Numbers are intact.. but quality or philosophy is always the controversy.

what if the system was really that the last pce was given to you, by saying that it is the 0th pce and you give the person the 0 dollar bill.

It is all relativity.. for 2 has a value only if there is 1. and everything can shift up or down to represent the place in which it is.
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Postby banana » Mon, 21 Jul 2008 6:51 pm

:roll: I can see why you have a problem grasping the concept.

All right, that's it folks. We've gotta re-invent numbers. That's right. No arguments, gotta take care of the lowest common denominator. What's that you say? Is it 0 or 1? Oh fer cryin out loud...
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Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 21 Jul 2008 8:19 pm

Shankar wrote:Anything and everything has a philosophy and a basis. When you cut the pizza into 9 million pcs, each piece gets the value 1/9millionth. Base-1 is when the pizza is never cut, where 0 is no pizza and 1 is 1 pizza.

The article is relevant here too, as we have been made to beleive in the numbers , but were never taught the philosophy of it. So we simply repeat in a standaradised manner, so no twat gets better than the other twat, atleast Quantitatively. Hope you can see that even a kid will bring something, but not an empty box.

It is always in the quality, that we are made twats.. as obviously your eye can't tell, whether it is 1/5th of a pizza or 1/6th of a pizza. Even if it is maintained as 1/6th = 1pce.. we won't know how the pizza gets shrunk the next day or the ingredients reduced. Numbers are intact.. but quality or philosophy is always the controversy.

what if the system was really that the last pce was given to you, by saying that it is the 0th pce and you give the person the 0 dollar bill.

It is all relativity.. for 2 has a value only if there is 1. and everything can shift up or down to represent the place in which it is.


With this post I am absolutely sure that Shankar is behind credit default swaps, CDO's, SIV's, bad mortgage paper, and the entire financial crisis. Nobody knows how the pizza gets shrunk but it is being shrunk. Naughty on you, Shankar.
Last edited by Strong Eagle on Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby ksl » Mon, 21 Jul 2008 9:50 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
Shankar wrote:Anything and everything has a philosophy and a basis. When you cut the pizza into 9 million pcs, each piece gets the value 1/9millionth. Base-1 is when the pizza is never cut, where 0 is no pizza and 1 is 1 pizza.

The article is relevant here too, as we have been made to beleive in the numbers , but were never taught the philosophy of it. So we simply repeat in a standaradised manner, so no twat gets better than the other twat, atleast Quantitatively. Hope you can see that even a kid will bring something, but not an empty box.

It is always in the quality, that we are made twats.. as obviously your eye can't tell, whether it is 1/5th of a pizza or 1/6th of a pizza. Even if it is maintained as 1/6th = 1pce.. we won't know how the pizza gets shrunk the next day or the ingredients reduced. Numbers are intact.. but quality or philosophy is always the controversy.

what if the system was really that the last pce was given to you, by saying that it is the 0th pce and you give the person the 0 dollar bill.

It is all relativity.. for 2 has a value only if there is 1. and everything can shift up or down to represent the place in which it is.


With this post I am absolutely sure that Shankar is behind credit default swaps, CDO's, SIV's, bad mortgage papaer, and the entire financial crisis. Nobody knows how the pizza gets shrunk but it is being shrunk. Naughty on you, Shankar.
:lol:
shankar : what if the system was really that the last pce was given to you, by saying that it is the 0th pce and you give the person the 0 dollar bill.
Well that's a great idea, :lol: providing we make good profit on the other pieces, I wouldn't mind donating the last peice either and a 0 $ bill to go with it :lol: Like the saying of the tailor never mind the quality feel the width :)

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Postby banana » Wed, 23 Jul 2008 8:31 pm

ksl wrote:Like the saying of the tailor never mind the quality feel the width :)


That's what I say too! And I'm no tailor!
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 23 Jul 2008 9:46 pm

banana wrote:
ksl wrote:Like the saying of the tailor never mind the quality feel the width :)


That's what I say too! And I'm no tailor!


I've heard that also. The shorter the banana the wider it appears. Don't you just love optical illusions. :wink:

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Re: Looks like we are following Base-9 thinking we are decim

Postby kaseyma » Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:27 pm

Shankar wrote:While just analysing, I found that we are on base 9 for atleast the first set of 10 Nos and have inadvertently given a value of 1 , to zero.

For instance, in Base 2 = it goes 0,1,10,11,100..
we see that , 10 happens only in the 3rd place, which is (Base 2+1)

Hexadecimal too is right, as alphabets A-F have been allocated to represent 10-15... So including the 0, we get 16 numbers and we get 10 to represent 16, only in the 17th place.

But in decimal alone, we see that 10 is already a 2 digit number, making ours a Base 9 System as inadvertently 9 has been doing the job of 10 in the decimal system we have been following.

Has anyone come across this or is it that I am missing some thing?

for easy reference you may visit this page,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_numeral_system

One can also find the anamoly, if we rework from Hex to decimal.

While you were in Wikipedia, you should have just looked up "Base-9."
It also explains the nonary notation system (symbols 0-8).

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:39 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
banana wrote:
ksl wrote:Like the saying of the tailor never mind the quality feel the width :)


That's what I say too! And I'm no tailor!


I've heard that also. The shorter the banana the wider it appears. Don't you just love optical illusions. :wink:


I don't believe this. Are you guys discussing bananas, banana, or banana's banana? Wait till cutiebutie sees this.

Decorum, gentlemen!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 24 Jul 2008 6:56 am

It's an optical illusion. What do you see?......... :P

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Re: Looks like we are following Base-9 thinking we are decim

Postby Shankar » Thu, 24 Jul 2008 9:02 pm

kaseyma wrote:
While you were in Wikipedia, you should have just looked up "Base-9."
It also explains the nonary notation system (symbols 0-8).


Thanks very much for this link. I was looking for NanoNary ; navnary etc. for base-9 system. Confirms that 9 was the zero in the past, and was the philology for the word "NO", "NOTHING" etc.
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Postby Shankar » Thu, 24 Jul 2008 9:21 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:With this post I am absolutely sure that Shankar is behind credit default swaps, CDO's, SIV's, bad mortgage paper, and the entire financial crisis. Nobody knows how the pizza gets shrunk but it is being shrunk. Naughty on you, Shankar.


aaaah... you were almost there... but the fact is I was bankrupt and thus got the opportunity to start counting again.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:03 pm

Shankar wrote: but the fact is I was bankrupt and thus got the opportunity to start counting again.


Bankrupt!?! With your base-9 counting system, why doesn't that surprise me. :wink:


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